Roco MultiMaus with Lenz system

[PaulCheffus]

Update!

 

Investigation of the LA152 board seems to show the fifth Din pin isn't connected to anything on the board but the shield/casing of the DIN socket is.

 

I took the Multimaus and had a chat with Geoff at the club who understands these things. We had a good read of the Lenz manuals and confirmed that the club layouts Xpressnet Din sockets are wired up with just 4 wires as specified. I plugged the Multimaus in and it seemed quite happy in an environment where there were a number of other Lenz LH100s operating. Having warned everyone that I'd possibly generate a STOP I unplugged the Multimaus and re-connected it. Surprisingly it didn't cause a problem even though there were four wires only.

So how did the club Lenz system differ to mine? The club also uses a LV102 booster for a power district but that wasn't the cause. Apparently the club system has had a setting altered. This has yet to be confirmed but I think it is the E line configuration. Now that I've read this I realise I was only testing the Multimaus on one half the layout and won't be able to check again until next month. In the meantime I'll try altering that setting on my command station and see if it cures the STOP generation by a walkabout Multimaus.

 

Hope some of this helps!

 

Tony

 

Hi

 

On the club layout was the MM plugged into the DIN socket or the RJ12 socket?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Glorious NSE]

Sorry Tony, further question after re-reading, did your guy at the club work out what feed is connected to the Din shield?

[Tony_S]

Hi

 

On the club layout was the MM plugged into the DIN socket or the RJ12 socket?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

 

Sorry Tony, further question after re-reading, did your guy at the club work out what feed is connected to the Din shield?

 

 

 

On the club layout the Multimaus was plugged into a DIN socket. This only had the 4 pins connected. These were the LMAB connections from the LENZ command station. Unlike at home it worked when the Multimaus was connected by the Lenz curly cable (I think this was originally for the LH90 handset) This has only 4 wires and I don't think the shield on the Thamesider layout was connected anyway and isn't marked on the club standard sheet as being connected.

I'll email Geoff and ask him if he can confirm what setting had been altered on the command station.

 

The shield on the LA152 Din socket is connected to the M connector. This can be seen on the PCB and I confirmed it with a multimeter. We still don't know what it is( if anything) it is connected to inside the Command station.

 

Tony

[Glorious NSE]

Okay, thanks Tony, so even if it does connect at the command station end it's not an "extra" just a duplication of one of the normal 4x feeds.

[chaz]

Tony,

 

many thanks for the info, especially your advice about what is working for you.

 

However I must admit to being baffled - you have connected an LA152 to your Lenz LZV100 with a MIDI cable, right?

 

Now I might be being a bit dim (it wouldn't be that unusual) but my understanding of MIDI cables is that they are configured thus....

 

Pin 1 - NC (not connected)

Pin 2 - shield

Pin 3 - NC

Pin 4 - signal +

Pin 5 - signal -

(I copied this from the MIDI website.)

 

Patently your system works fine, but how is it managing it? A MIDI cable only connects three of the pins, and we need L, M, A & B to be connected, don't we? Have I missed something?

 

Chaz

[Tony_S]

Tony,

 

many thanks for the info, especially your advice about what is working for you.

 

However I must admit to being baffled - you have connected an LA152 to your Lenz LZV100 with a MIDI cable, right?

 

Now I might be being a bit dim (it wouldn't be that unusual) but my understanding of MIDI cables is that they are configured thus....

 

Pin 1 - NC (not connected)

Pin 2 - shield

Pin 3 - NC

Pin 4 - signal +

Pin 5 - signal -

(I copied this from the MIDI website.)

 

Patently your system works fine, but how is it managing it? A MIDI cable only connects three of the pins, and we need L, M, A & B to be connected, don't we? Have I missed something?

 

Chaz

 

This was a MIDI cable sold as "Midi DIN all pins connected"

 

 

 

[chaz]

This was a MIDI cable sold as "Midi DIN all pins connected"

 

Thanks Tony, for that.

 

I just went onto the net and found that Leads Direct sell a 1 metre Midi DIN lead, all pins connected. Maplins also offer one at 1.5m - that might suit me better, especially as I might be able to buy one over the counter in Southampton.

 

Once I've installed it I will let you know how it does.

 

Chaz

[Tony_S]

Thanks Tony, for that.

 

I just went onto the net and found that Leads Direct sell a 1 metre Midi DIN lead, all pins connected. Maplins also offer one at 1.5m - that might suit me better, especially as I might be able to buy one over the counter in Southampton.

 

Once I've installed it I will let you know how it does.

 

Chaz

 

Mine came from Ebay from an Ebay shop selling electronic stuff for DJs. After I sent off I noticed that it wasn't too far away anyway but the postage was still cheaper than the petrol would have been.

 

Tony

 

 

 

[chaz]

Right then, everybody. The cable is installed and I have a running session tonight and another tomorrow night. Experience has shown me that a casual test is not sufficient, a full test with two operators over two or more hours is necessary. I have my fingers crossed - MultiMaus? It's showdown time!

 

I will post a report.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Oh dear! If anything the DIN/MIDI cable (5 pin - all pins connected) appears to have made matters worse. In last night's operating session the system crashed three times in 15 minutes. I have, reluctantly, concluded that the Roco MultiMaus is not compatible with my Lenz system. I can't see any point in persisting further with the handset and I will be reverting to the Lenz LH100 as my best option.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.

I do have Roco's offer of a refund, via the dealer, and will be pursuing this.

 

Chaz

[Glorious NSE]

Hi Chaz, sorry to hear that.

 

Just for the record do you mind if we keep your thread running a bit longer and/or revisit it in the future even if it's an option you haven't pursued as there's some interesting stuff coming out for other users/potential users?

[chaz]

No objections at all, GNSE!

 

If the thread continues and the problem is resolved that will be to everyone's benefit. I will keep an interested eye on any progress posted as I did want to use the MultiMaus, I would have preferred it to the LH100, but I can't tolerate the frequency of system crashes.

 

On another forum someone suggests that 2 MultiMaus handsets might be OK together with the Lenz kit - however last night's test session showed me that the MultiMaus would not work reliably with my laptop/USB interface (at the time of the crashes the MultiMaus was the only handset in use). The computer is essential to the way I operate my layout and any handset must "fit in" with it.

 

The present position (for me) is that everything I have tried has not solved the problem. I am aware that there are others who are using the MultiMaus/Lenz combination with no problems and I am grateful for the various suggestions that have been made. However I feel it's time for me to draw a line.

 

 

Chaz

[PaulCheffus]

No objections at all, GNSE!

 

If the thread continues and the problem is resolved that will be to everyone's benefit. I will keep an interested eye on any progress posted as I did want to use the MultiMaus, I would have preferred it to the LH100, but I can't tolerate the frequency of system crashes.

 

On another forum someone suggests that 2 MultiMaus handsets might be OK together with the Lenz kit - however last night's test session showed me that the MultiMaus would not work reliably with my laptop/USB interface (at the time of the crashes the MultiMaus was the only handset in use). The computer is essential to the way I operate my layout and any handset must "fit in" with it.

 

The present position (for me) is that everything I have tried has not solved the problem. I am aware that there are others who are using the MultiMaus/Lenz combination with no problems and I am grateful for the various suggestions that have been made. However I feel it's time for me to draw a line.

 

 

Chaz

 

Hi

 

Quick question. Does the system only crash when you unplug or plug in the Multimaus or does it just occur without any changes to the throttle?

 

I ask as if the crash only occurs when trying to move the Multimaus from socket to socket then that wouldn't be an issue for me and I can go ahead and purchase one.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Suzie]

 

Quick question. Does the system only crash when you unplug or plug in the Multimaus or does it just occur without any changes to the throttle?

 

I ask as if the crash only occurs when trying to move the Multimaus from socket to socket then that wouldn't be an issue for me and I can go ahead and purchase one.

 

 

 

 

The problem can occur with just a MultiMaus plugged in to the LZV100 with nothing else on the ExpressNet. The LZV100 occasionally crashes when you do something on the Multimaus. Very irritating.

[chaz]

 

 

The problem can occur with just a MultiMaus plugged in to the LZV100 with nothing else on the ExpressNet. The LZV100 occasionally crashes when you do something on the Multimaus. Very irritating.

 

Yes, Suzie, I can confirm that that's my experience too. In fact I have never needed to unplug the MM during an operating session. (Although I have been tempted to do so as a preliminary to hurling into the bin!).

 

You will see, in one of my postings above, that I did try adding a resistor to the "L" line, but this had no effect. You will also have seen that some people have been successful with the MM/Lenz combination. I wonder what the crucial feature is?

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Hi Guys!

 

Well my MultiMaus saga is at an end. I have taken up Roco's offer of a refund by returning the hand-set to Kernow Models. So that the dealer should not be out of pocket I have ordered a Lenz LH100 (they have been very helpful).

I can't say that a Roco MultiMaus won't work with a Lenz system - but it won't work reliably with mine.

 

Chaz

[PaulCheffus]

Hi Guys!

 

Well my MultiMaus saga is at an end. I have taken up Roco's offer of a refund by returning the hand-set to Kernow Models. So that the dealer should not be out of pocket I have ordered a Lenz LH100 (they have been very helpful).

I can't say that a Roco MultiMaus won't work with a Lenz system - but it won't work reliably with mine.

 

Chaz

 

Hi

 

Thanks for the update I won't bother with the Multimaus in this case. My quest continues for an alternative handset for the Lenz system.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[legomanbiffo]

I've just bought a second Multimaus to use with my Lenz LZV100. My old Multimuas was only v1.00 but the new one is v1.02. The LZV100 has v3.6 firmware. I was expecting to be able to access F13 upwards with the new handset but no, still only F0-12. I'm sure I read somewhere that someone could access F13 upwards with this combination, can anyone confirm this?

[tractor_37260]

I've just bought a second Multimaus to use with my Lenz LZV100. My old Multimuas was only v1.00 but the new one is v1.02. The LZV100 has v3.6 firmware. I was expecting to be able to access F13 upwards with the new handset but no, still only F0-12. I'm sure I read somewhere that someone could access F13 upwards with this combination, can anyone confirm this?

 

Hi Bif

I have 2 MM's, one is the original V1 the other V1.02. I also find that even the V1.02 will not access above F12 when used with my V3.6 Lenz LZV100. However, if the V1.02 is used with Roco's own 10764 amp it will access up to F20, the V1 will not. Apparently, according to Roco, there is a compatibility issue with the MM V1.02 and the V3.6 100, that they were supposed to be working on to resolve ?

Both MM's seem ? to work OK on my system, using a Lenz LH90 curly connecting cable plugged into a LA152 , although I've no need at present to unplug it to move around etc when in use

.

HTH

Ken

 

PS Any update on a refurb 37 soundfile, preferably for 3.5's ?

[corax67]

Apologies for coming in late on this post but I have been using multiple MultiMaus handsets on my Lenz system in conjunction with a mix of LH90 & LH100's too (plus a Roco RouteSetter) all of which plays very nicely with each other and there are no crash or freeze issues.

 

A few years back I posted a thread reply detailing a wiring modification which needs to be carried out to a LA152 in order to keep the MultiMaus units 100% happy and this may be found here:

 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=47399

 

 

A simple job which makes life a lot less worry free.

 

 

 

 

Karl

[JT42CWRDriver]

Apologies for coming in late on this post but I have been using multiple MultiMaus handsets on my Lenz system in conjunction with a mix of LH90 & LH100's too (plus a Roco RouteSetter) all of which plays very nicely with each other and there are no crash or freeze issues.

 

A few years back I posted a thread reply detailing a wiring modification which needs to be carried out to a LA152 in order to keep the MultiMaus units 100% happy and this may be found here:

 

 

http://www.rmweb.co....hp?f=10&t=47399

 

 

A simple job which makes life a lot less worry free.

 

 

 

 

Karl

 

Hello,

 

I have just purchased a LZV100 v3.6 on ebay to use with my Multimaus v1-02. I can't access the above thread, could the wiring mod be re-posted please?

 

Cheers,

 

Peter.

[Suzie]

Hello,

 

I have just purchased a LZV100 v3.6 on ebay to use with my Multimaus v1-02. I can't access the above thread, could the wiring mod be re-posted please?

 

Cheers,

 

Peter.

 

You do not need the mod. It is only required when not using the LZV100 and you want to plug the Multimaus into the front socket of the LA152.

[JT42CWRDriver]

You do not need the mod. It is only required when not using the LZV100 and you want to plug the Multimaus into the front socket of the LA152.

 

Ok thanks, so basically it should be ok then? I really like the Multimaus and want to save the expense of buying an LH90 at the moment.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter.

[chaz]

Emphatically yes, MM + LZV100 combo is glitch free.

 

Tim

 

Not on my railway it wasn't (see above). I know that others haved used the Lenz/Roco MM combination without problems of any kind, as is obviously the case for you Tim, however I also know that I am not alone in experiencing system crashes. I never got to the bottom of why this happened - I tried all the suggestions but none of these made the situation better - some of them appeared to make it a darn sight worse. I will add that Lenz's own DECT phone adapter caused similar crashes - all Lenz had to say about this was that it is a "known problem". My reaction ("Well fix it then") didn't go down well at the time - a pity, as I liked the phone as a neat little cordless controller.

 

I liked the Roco handset and would have made it my first choice had it have worked reliably. What appealed was the knob-type speed control and a good set of function buttons (One of the reasons why I am now building a MERG DCC system for my exhibition layout, Dock Green).

 

Chaz

[JT42CWRDriver]

Ok, so it appears that some people have problems and others don't.

 

I've looked through other related posts and understand that a 20R resistor is needed in series with the "L" wire on the Xpressnet if you wish to unplug and re-connect the Multimaus with the system running.

 

Other peoples' problems seem to go deeper than that though. I guess I'll have to wait until the LZV100 arrives and try it out. If it doesn't work it's not the end of the world, I have the Multimaus system amplifier anyway and a Fleischmann Twin Center for programming.

 

Incidentally I have lent a Lokmaus 2 to a friend with a Lenz system and he has experienced no problems with that, and loves it for shunting.

 

Thank you for the replies,

 

Cheers,

 

Peter.