S7 scratch building

[Tom Burnham]

On 30/08/2023 at 19:47, airnimal said:

Well the day at my daughter's school was very busy for the entire 6 hours we were there. Everyone worked really hard to make the 3 classrooms look like a school again.

I hope her school isn't one of those closed at short notice because of RAAC, after all that work!

[airnimal]

I am not sure if her school is one of those affected.  But we did notice that the ceiling looks very much like the pictures on the news. My middle daughter made a comment about the dreadful condition of the ceiling and were we going to paint it. I spent a week painting a sister school about a mile away from her school about 20 years ago through a community works programme. I think I have done enough good deeds recently so tomorrow it will be a day of banter and trains.

[airnimal]

I had a successful trip to Guildex on Saturday and enjoyed the day with much chin wagging for most of the day. I didn't buy much but I did stock up on wagon wheels as well as buying a etched container body from Andy Duncan. This was probably quite an old kit because it was very tarnished but it will clean up without any problems.  The roof had a crease in it  but I have managed to straighten it out and rolled it to the correct radius using my rollers. I rolled it in a couple of pieces of cardboard through the rollers and it has come out well. On the way back from Guildex I called in a furniture showroom near where I used to work in Macclesfield because I knew that they used these containers in the 1890's, and asked if they had any photographs of these containers and they gave me a booklet on the history of the company.  Unfortunately the lady didn't know the colours that the containers were painted but she said if I went back when one of the owners were at work they may be able to help. One one in the photograph has lifting rings on one side at the top similar to others I have seen with straps going over the roof in a V formation,  

but does anyone know if there was a similar ring at the other side  and was 3 rings sufficient enough to lift them on to a wagon. 

 

 

 

[sir douglas]

they had 2 rings on either side and rope/cable in an X over the roof for the crane but i cant tell whether it was all just tied together or if there was a shackle in the middle which is something i also need to to know for mine

[magmouse]

There seem to be some variations on a theme with the lifting gear. This one has what looks like permanently fitted chains of wire ropes, presumably with a central ring to hold it all together and attach the crane hook to:

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/-acg805--pocock-h-c--eastbourne--furniture-container--op--1902-f3r-with-lifting-gear.html

 

Similarly here - this looks more like wire rope:

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/ach832-shirer-haddon-cheltenham-furniture-container-suspended-r3l-house-furnishers-removal-contracto.html

 

And an 'action shot' that confirms the arrangement:

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrcs2124.htm

 

I have seen some photos of the lift vans in transit with the cables/chains still in place, and some showing the gear removed. You pays yer money, you takes yer choice...

 

Nick.

 

[airnimal]

So the V shaped strap on the roof only goes half way across. The photograph makes it look as though the V  goes all the way to the far side. This must be an optical illusion. It does make sense that there will be 4 lifting shackles linked to the straps on the sides. So in effect the straps on the roof make it look like an  X shape. 

[airnimal]

Although there has been considerable family commitments I have managed to get a couple of hours in the workshop today.  So I soldered the basic body of the container I bought at Guildex together.  I tried being clever by adding some brass angle inside the body to strengthen the joints ar the corners but it just made things difficult.  In the end I just butt jointed it all with the RSU. With the best will in the world the roof as supplied is never going to fit without lots of gaps and filler. The instructions even suggest that a supplement roof could be added from card or similar materials.  

[Western Star]

The lift gear that is shown in Nick's post is of the style known as a "set of brothers"....  provided that the load is spread equally over each leg of the brothers a level lift is to be expected.

[Simond]

it’s good practice to use spreader bars when lifting stuff like this, to prevent the top collapsing inwards - the diagonal pull of ropes or chains in an “X” is not insignificant.  The actual force is dependent on the angles of the triangle and the weight.
 

I see the nearer container in Mike’s post has some kind of reinforcement on the roof, perhaps to prevent the sides being forced in if spreaders were not used/available/commonplace, but that none of Nick’s photos show spreaders.  I guess the containers were built to be lifted without.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Simond

[magmouse]

46 minutes ago, Simond said:

I guess the containers were built to be lifted without.

This, I think. The strips going diagonally across the roof in Mike’s picture look too thin to resist much of a compression force, especially as they are curved. I wonder if they are to protect the roof from abrasion by the shackles, cables, etc. I have seen a container with slats on the centre section of the roof, run longitudinally. I think these might serve a similar purpose, as well as providing some grip to the person climbing onto the roof to attach the crane hook.

 

Abrasion from the tackle might create the risk of leaks.

 

Nick

[airnimal]

The Aussie crew have all gone out for the day to Halifax and my good lady has gone to pick one of the grandsons up who starts school today. This leaves me to have a day in the workshop which I am not going to waste. 

 

This container is proving interesting to build. I have pulled it apart 3 times already but I now have the basic shell complete.  I dispensed with any interior bracing as it was more trouble than it was worth.

The roof has been made from a leftover sheet of 6 thou brass that I found while looking for something else.  I soldered it on leaving it over long and trimmed it back to be flush with both the sides and ends. 

The roof has plenty of ripples in it but that doesn't bother me as I am sure these things got bashed about a little in service. 

[Simond]

7 hours ago, magmouse said:

This, I think. The strips going diagonally across the roof in Mike’s picture look too thin to resist much of a compression force, especially as they are curved.

I agree.  I suspect we will have to assume some kind of cross-beams inside the roof.  Either directly beneath the strips, or “square on”.  I could imagine them being below the strips on the roof.
 

Unless anyone has access to a container in a museum or similar to confirm or correct this, I guess we’ll not know, but at least, the good news is that it makes no difference to the models.

[airnimal]

I have started to add the details but I am struggling with the lack of drawings with the kit. A simple drawing showing the precise location of the etch parts would have been a help or even better a photograph of the completed model. So far I have put on the door hinges on but nothing else. 

[airnimal]

I have fitted the long pieces of brass on the sides that act as lifting straps. But the other bits I am struggling with, not the fitting but the location. I even tried to look on Andy Duncan's web site for a photograph of the completed model but it doesn't appear to be listed now. 

Perhaps an e-mail to Andy asking for better information may help unless anyone on here who has built one of these containers and can help ?

[Western Star]

The late Bob Essery, Nelson Twells and Mike Peascod wrote an article about a lift van and appropriate wagon for, I think, an early issue of MRJ.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Western Star

[SteamAle]

A Loaded Carriage Truck in 7mm

Bob Essery, Mike Peascod, Nelson Twells

Issue 7 (1986)

p.87

7mm

Having already expounded on the attraction of Edwardian railways - not to mention the problems of portraying them accurately - Bob Essey joins fellow LMS Society members Nelson Twells and Mike Peascod and gets down to work. Bob built the truck, Nelson the pantechnicon and Mike did the drawing.

Construction of a MR 20 ton Open Carriage Truck (Lot 551) conveying a furniture removal pantechnicon (horse-drawn furniture removal van).

[airnimal]

I got another day to myself because everyone went different ways today before meeting up for the final night before the Aussie clan depart for Australia tomorrow. There is going to be a fair bit of tiding up to do to restore the house to some sort of order. 

 

Added a couple of details like the side rings and the lifting shackles on the roof. I am still unsure of a couple of details like the rear door locking bracket. 

[airnimal]

I have just got back from 2 weeks cycling around  Northern Bulgaria with 6 of my cycling chums.  It was a typical chaotic ramble with misinformation and changing plans along the way.  I am not sure how long we can keep going on these crazy adventures with the average age being over 70, because climbing long mountain passes carrying  panniers is becoming hard work. And after a couple of beers at night, it takes about 2 minutes maximum to get to sleep every night.

 

So back to reality and the workshop.  The container will not be finished until I can find out about the door hinges. So I have been preparing the wheels for the wagon the container is going to sit on. 

 

[airnimal]

I am slowly getting back into normal life after the bike ride through the Bulgarian hills. I still feel a bit weary which wasn't helped by being delayed over 6 hours at Sofia's airport which doesn't have the greatest facilities.  Easyjet weren't very helpful taking over 5 hours to provide any refreshments or information.  And when we were given a bottle of water and a bottle of Coca cola with a cheese and ham sandwich plus a croissant,  I asked if they had any sandwiches for vegetarians.  Take the meat out came the stony faced reply.  Thanks Easyjet.  

 

Back to the wagons.  The Dia 1 resin body that I had previously made a mess of was dusted down and  rebuilt with new W-irons and wheels. I made a new brake lever with new brake rack and touched up the paintwork on the body. I have a set of numberplates to add when I finish the painting and lettering.  

 

 

 

 

[Western Star]

Such an attractive model which would raise the level of any pre-group layout.

[woko]

absolutely stunning work as always Mike

[airnimal]

Thank everyone for all the support and comments,  it is much appreciated. 

 

I have completed the container wagon although it could do with the number on the end although I have seen photographs of some wagon without them.  

 

So while the good lady of the house has gone a wandering around Manchester I have been getting some of my stock out on the dinning room table to see which I will be taking to the S7 meeting  next week.

Obviously I can't take everything so it is a case of being selective. I also so have lots of books to dispose of along with so unused bits and pieces that I am never going to get around to using. I have been trying to prune lots of stuff collected over the years incase we do move house. We have had one  gentleman who has had a second viewing who seems very interested, so we are hopeful things may be moving in the right direction. I have still got lots of railway magazines in the loft that are probably not going to be in the best condition that will need removing soon which I am not looking forward to doing.

 

 

 

[MartinM]

Cracking stock really impressive..... 

[airnimal]

I have packed with the wagons my coupling hook made from an old bicycle spoke. So I can see it, I have put a couple of pieces of shrink rap rubber tubing on in different colours. I know other people place torches on the end to see in difficult lighting and I may end up doing the same if I can find a small pen size torch.

[BlueLightning]

3 hours ago, airnimal said:

I know other people place torches on the end to see in difficult lighting and I may end up doing the same if I can find a small pen size torch.

 

I have one of these attached to my coupling hook, seeing as I am doing it in 4mm, I don't think it would be possible without the extra light!

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Diagnostic-Penlight-CAVN-Flashlight-Emergency/dp/B01HAXUHQ6/ref=sr_1_1_sspa

 

Gary