Hornby R3520 'Coeur-De-Lion' Britannia Class

[Ian Hargrave]

I know where you are coming from Larry, you want to see what the Loco looks like under natural light - rather than the harshness of light-box conditions.

 

I'm sure someone will oblige in due course. I'm afraid I can't with this one - yet...

That's a perceptive observation. Both Rails and Hattons render inacccurate colour tone .In the case of the recently released GWR Star,what you see is a washed out version of green.What you get is actually a shade darker and nearer to what it ideally should be.

[toboldlygo]

That's a perceptive observation. Both Rails and Hattons render inacccurate colour tone .In the case of the recently released GWR Star,what you see is a washed out version of green.What you get is actually a shade darker and nearer to what it ideally should be.

 

I've found that with a lot of the recent Hornby Releases - Schools (Winchester), Hall (Hemlingham Hall), MN (Clan Line) and even the later B17's to name but a few.

 

I think it's the way the most digital cameras see the colour green and overexpose it. If you edit the photo's and put them through Photoshop and run the Auto Colour function it corrects the over-exposure somewhat (I have Larry to thank for that particular tip).

[Pint of Adnams]

A must purchase for a GER modeller, Coeur De Lion displays the shedcode of 32A, this was Norwich Thorpe depot from recollection. I also have Thomas Hardy, this was a Stratford loco as modelled. One of Hornby's finest products without doubt.

I picked up mine a small local show yesterday - she's definitely a beauty and complements 'Thomas Hardy'.

 

Local shed allocations is definitely a trend that us East Anglian modellers will no doubt wish continues; the 'Brits' did their finest work on the GE main line services and it would be good to see Hornby work their way through them as allocated during the 1950s/early 60s period - in a similar way as was written up in last year's Hornby Handbook describing the tooling being designed to cover all 30 of the planned 'Merchant Navy' class (the inset on p09).

 

With brilliant names such as 'Boadicea', 'Hereward the Wake' and 'John of Gaunt' amongst the GE allocations there's a canon of local heroes ready to be celebrated.

 

And more East Anglian allocations would also be welcome for several other ex-LNER classes; not all B1s, K1s and L1s and O1s were allocated exclusively in the North East!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...And more East Anglian allocations would also be welcome for several other ex-LNER classes...

... J39, J50, K3, O7. At least you will be home and dry on the N7s, unless Oxford decide to concentrate solely on Hatfield's allocation.

[Pint of Adnams]

... J39, J50, K3, O7. At least you will be home and dry on the N7s, unless Oxford decide to concentrate solely on Hatfield's allocation.

ISTR that one of Hornby's J50s was shedded at Norwich; surely the rest are down to Bachmann or others? And no, it wouldn't surprise me if a manufacturer decided to produce the odd GE 'Buckjumper' that was either sold off or exiled far up north (just to keep the rusticated B12s company?) and then wonder why it didn't sell at all well.

[Ian Hargrave]

I picked up mine a small local show yesterday - she's definitely a beauty and complements 'Thomas Hardy'.

 

Local shed allocations is definitely a trend that us East Anglian modellers will no doubt wish continues; the 'Brits' did their finest work on the GE main line services and it would be good to see Hornby work their way through them as allocated during the 1950s/early 60s period - in a similar way as was written up in last year's Hornby Handbook describing the tooling being designed to cover all 30 of the planned 'Merchant Navy' class (the inset on p09).

 

With brilliant names such as 'Boadicea', 'Hereward the Wake' and 'John of Gaunt' amongst the GE allocations there's a canon of local heroes ready to be celebrated.

 

And more East Anglian allocations would also be welcome for several other ex-LNER classes; not all B1s, K1s and L1s and O1s were allocated exclusively in the North East!

Which is fine.But maybe it's forgotten that Canton ( 86C ) had all the WR allocation of them during the 1950's.....70015-29.Thus far Hornby have just 70015 under their belt.They did some fine work here too and were immaculately turned out.The initial allocation was 70025-29....Western Star to Shooting Star.How about one of those?

[Pint of Adnams]

Which is fine.But maybe it's forgotten that Canton ( 86C ) had all the WR allocation of them during the 1950's.....70015-29.Thus far Hornby have just 70015 under their belt.They did some fine work here too and were immaculately turned out.The initial allocation was 70025-29....Western Star to Shooting Star.How about one of those?

Would that be the same Canton that earned a reputation for not looking after them nor crewing them with drivers who were willing to treat them accordingly?

[Ian Hargrave]

Would that be the same Canton that earned a reputation for not looking after them nor crewing them with drivers who were willing to treat them accordingly?

Well as I remember them that was not the case.I notice no emoticon..... You wouldn't be wanting to start a turf war now would you ? No,thought not...

[toboldlygo]

Well as I remember them that was not the case.I notice no emoticon..... You wouldn't be wanting to start a turf war now would you ? No,thought not...

 

The Men in Malachite are indebted to you Ian for your suggestion and now their most popular 'treatment' - if you give the word, they will lend their assistance     

[Pint of Adnams]

Well as I remember them that was not the case.I notice no emoticon..... You wouldn't be wanting to start a turf war now would you ? No,thought not...

See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53337-wr-britannia-allocations/?p=1858993

[Ian Hargrave]

See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53337-wr-britannia-allocations/?p=1858993

 

I have a great respect for Mike as a professional railwayman of the best.Nowhere in his post does he make  the assertion made in your post 32 above.....but that the "majority who worked on them took to them quite well".As for "not looking after them" as you assert I am afraid that is a misrepresentation at best and a fiction at worst .How do I know this ? Simply because unlike the majority of forum members,I was around at the time the Britannias arrived at 86C and spent many hours spotting at the Newport end of Platform 3 of Cardiff General (not Central as it later became) and witnessed their immaculate turnout and obvious pride taken in them.One special moment of the day was the up "Capitals United Express "at midday,taken over by one immediately followed by a return working from Cardiff to Shrewsbury on a Swansea-Manchester London Road by another.....both locos in sparkling condition.

 

There is a commonly held view that WR men did not like them and that is certainly true in the main. GWR traditions died hard and there was no shortage of quality motive power available to handle  most traffic with the possible exception of the intense holiday traffic to the West Of England during the summer months.Thus most footplate men would much prefer a Castle/Modified Hall. Canton made the Brits work for them unlike 81A or 83D.By1956/7 all WR examples were transferred there. In 1958 a number were transferred away to Kentish Town or Trafford Park to help a shortage of more powerful hauling power on the Midland mainline.

 

There was a vast difference in the requirements of the GER mainlines.In the postwar period there was a chronic shortage of motive power sufficiently powerful to provide East Anglia with an upgraded service which was sorely needed..i.e. totally different from the WR which had more varied traffic and topography which stretched the hauling power of its  locos to the limit.

 

Thus the arrival of the Britannias in 1951 was like manna from heaven.They did sterling work from both Stratford and Norwich as we know from the likes of the legendary Dick Hardy.

 

However,they did work on other regions of BR and all I am suggesting is that Hornby might again recognise the work they also did with distinction from Swansea to Paddington and from Cardiff to Shrewsbury.Both Stratford and now Norwich are featured in the catalogue which is fine,as I have said

 

I do not seek to pour scorn on the preferences of others and I did see many at Liverpool Street too....and marvelled at how they looked alongside B12/B1/B17 which looked so puny by comparison. Pause for thought ?

[Pint of Adnams]

70013 'Oliver Cromwell' back on home territory in August 2009 - Down Special approaching Palgrave Level Crossing, close to Bressingham where she shuffled footplate passengers back and forth for years...

[coachmann]

To me, sending a batch of Britannia's to the Western Region was like forcing Compounds onto the LNWR sheds, and the question must have been, "Why?"  Class 7P 'Castle' class locos were being built until a year before the Britannia Class came out and so it wasn't as if the Western Region was short of adequate motive power. Anyone who has ever worked on or driven machinery knows what can happen to an eight-hour shift when very unfamiliar machinery is foisted on them. A Brit was as unfamiliar as it gets, its biggest unfamiliarity being left-hand drive on a system where information-giving signalling was positioned for right hand drive.

 

For both crews it meant handling unfamiliar equipment on a speeding loco, but for right handed fireman for whom firing had always been an easy task, it could have meant firing left-handed. It is probably they carried on firing in the same old manner but from the drivers side of the footplate if they had a regular mate. The only advantages over a typical Western 4-6-0 I can think of was less oiling round and rocking ashpan and grate, although disposal probably wasn't their concern. 

[No Decorum]

To me, sending a batch of Britannia's to the Western Region was like forcing Compounds onto the LNWR sheds, and the question must have been, "Why?"  Class 7P 'Castle' class locos were being built until a year before the Britannia Class came out and so it wasn't as if the Western Region was short of adequate motive power. Anyone who has ever worked on or driven machinery knows what can happen to an eight-hour shift when very unfamiliar machinery is foisted on them. A Brit was as unfamiliar as it gets, its biggest unfamiliarity being left-hand drive on a system where information-giving signalling was positioned for right hand drive.

 

For both crews it meant handling unfamiliar equipment on a speeding loco, but for right handed fireman for whom firing had always been an easy task, it could have meant firing left-handed. It is probably they carried on firing in the same old manner but from the drivers side of the footplate if they had a regular mate. The only advantages over a typical Western 4-6-0 I can think of was less oiling round and rocking ashpan and grate, although disposal probably wasn't their concern. 

All of that is perfectly true but I think that Riddles and his minions had a vision of a network in Great Britain powered by, ultimately, just twelve standard steam types. I believe that the Great Western had difficulty in understanding the logic of having to build 9Fs which were more expensive than the GWR 2-8-0s when the latter were sufficient for their needs and had proved themselves to be the most economical heavy freight locos during the BR trials. If circumstances hadn’t changed, possibly the BR Standards might have ended up providing a highly standardised fleet but as it turned out, they were pretty well non-standard wherever they went, except possibly on the LMR.

 

Left-hand drive must have been a constant irritant. In addition to that, according to Nock, the Brits vibrated in an unpleasant manner in contrast to the smoothness of a Castle. Then again, he had to stand in the cab. The crew might not have been so bothered on their padded seats. In addition to all that, a pacific was a novelty on the Western Region. Unless someone had pointed out to the firemen that they had to make sure the back corners were well-covered, poor steaming would probably result.

 

I have often wondered about mangle-wheel reversers too. Any major adjustment would require the whole upper body to move whereas the traditional type could be adjusted using just the arms. I say this having memories of helping my mother mangle clothes when I was small.

[Classsix T]

Hi friends, I've emailed but not had a reply as yet, could 'phone, but wondered if any of the local yokels know if Scograil are stocking these yet and their sticker price?

A Google search turned up some sub £140 examples though I'd rather support my local if I can.

 

C6T.

[Ian Hargrave]

Hi friends, I've emailed but not had a reply as yet, could 'phone, but wondered if any of the local yokels know if Scograil are stocking these yet and their sticker price?

A Google search turned up some sub £140 examples though I'd rather support my local if I can.

C6T.

Your answer surely is via a simple phone call.

[Classsix T]

Don't call me Shirley.

 

C6T.

[adb968008]

I recall reading that the Germans studying U.K. Railways during the war were puzzled as why there were so many types of locomotive and several thousand types of wagons on such a dense network, largely under utilised.

 

Riddles could have been influenced by a more germanesque network of standardised fleets post war.

Edited May 12, 2017 by adb968008

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The product of a nation of determined individualists! This had been recognised within the UK during WWI, and the 'standard' locomotives that emerged at that time were in one case scrapped very early on the LMS (ROD), and in the other case only really utilised on the originating company's lines (N class). The ARLE project to deliver standardised designs was quickly buried when the war ended, and glorious diversity once again flowered.

[Downer]

With the late emblem and original handrails, Hornby seem to have modelled 70007 in a very narrow timeframe - around nine months is my guess, from mid-58 to spring 59.  I would be interested to know if anyone has a picture featuring this combination after the latter date. 

[pH]

With the late emblem and original handrails, Hornby seem to have modelled 70007 in a very narrow timeframe - around nine months is my guess, from mid-58 to spring 59.  I would be interested to know if anyone has a picture featuring this combination after the latter date.

 

This site - http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page91.htm - says 70007 was seen with the new emblem in July 1957 (the first GE section 'Britannia' to get it) and had the deflector handrails removed in April 1959. If those dates are correct, the as-modelled condition lasted a bit longer than you thought.

[toboldlygo]

This site - http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page91.htm - says 70007 was seen with the new emblem in July 1957 (the first GE section 'Britannia' to get it) and had the deflector handrails removed in April 1959. If those dates are correct, the as-modelled condition lasted a bit longer than you thought.

 

That would make sense as she was also fitted with AWS in April 1959.

[adb968008]

Which is fine.But maybe it's forgotten that Canton ( 86C ) had all the WR allocation of them during the 1950's.....70015-29.Thus far Hornby have just 70015 under their belt.They did some fine work here too and were immaculately turned out.The initial allocation was 70025-29....Western Star to Shooting Star.How about one of those?

It was 50 years ago last month that 70015 ran on a very well recorded near end of steam rcts Railtour around the north west covering rare track for a Brit, and tender first running, including Burnden Park Jn to Bury, Padiham, Feniscowles, and the Blackburn-Lostock line curve at Bolton thus avoiding Bolton station twice. A very well thought out route, as much of it today is gone.

 

http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/670319lr.html

 

167 miles and the furthest the trip got from Manchester was Southport and St Helens, the longest breaks was 20 mins at Lostock Hall junction and 25 at Padiham, so I'm guessing warm pies were in short supply.That said it left after breakfast (10am) and was back before dinner (6pm)

 

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7008/6672372341_7cf3e79329_b.jpg

 

http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/images/70015_Apollo_Manchester_Victoria_RCTS_Railtour_19_March_1967.jpg

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d3/bf/61/d3bf612a711181f218188810c98584d8.jpg

Edited May 16, 2017 by adb968008

[Londoner]

It astonishes me that everybody seems to accept the ugly chimney. The rim lip appears to be about a quarter to a third of the depth of the chimney. The curious perspective of the pictures above enhance this awful error.

 

For me, this ugly chimney spoils what is otherwise a great model, and I do not understand why the pedants are not up in arms.

[Ian Hargrave]

It astonishes me that everybody seems to accept the ugly chimney. The rim lip appears to be about a quarter to a third of the depth of the chimney. The curious perspective of the pictures above enhance this awful error.

For me, this ugly chimney spoils what is otherwise a great model, and I do not understand why the pedants are not up in arms.

Could be they are having an overdue Bank Holiday break.......