LNWR workbench John

[Hibelroad]

2 hours ago, Brassey said:

 

Is that right? Humbrol 27 is Sea Grey? whereas 69 is gloss yellow.  Some use Humbrol 7 which is Tan.

 

Precision Paints also do an LNWR coach lining paint.  Any opinions as to which is best for lining?

 

As I model the LNWR/GWR joint, I am trying to develop a coach lining technique that is common to both and using the same "gold" would help.

I have tried LNWR lining in the past and failed miserably. I am not defeated though and now have two projects on the go, one 4mm and one 7mm. I have tried Humbrol  69 which I think is too bright so I will be trying number 7 for my next attempt. I am using a Bob Moores lining pen (for which gloss paint is a must) and also trying yet again to use a bowpen. I have a bow pen I bought some thirty years ago but either its not very good or I am no good with it. I have shaped the blades following Ian Rathbones recommendations and it is better but still difficult to get a narrow line. Even at the time I bought this pen the recommended makes like Kern were unobtainable and I don't suppose the situation has improved since. 

So I will try again with Humbrol 7 and if its presentable I'll post some pics. If anyone has any ideas about easy ways to do LNWR  lining then I'm sure they would be very welcome to post them. I do have MRJ 52 and Ian Rathbones book so once I can summon up the enthusiasm I will have another go. 

 

[Brassey]

3 hours ago, Coal Tank said:

Peter probably worth asking Jol what he uses now, the technique that Jol uses

 

John

 

In Jol's original article (MRJ 52) he says he used Humbrol "facings yellow".  This is Humbrol 169 which is matt.  All lining experts I have read advocate using gloss paints.  He further states that Brian Badger uses Yellow No. 69 which is gloss.  Larry Goddard (ex-Coachmann of this parish) suggests a 50:50 mix of 69 and 7.  I have used both 69 and the 50:50 mix but I find the 69 too bright, translucent and runny even when mixed.  The result is that even a thin ruled line spreads once on the coach side producing too thick a line.

 

However, today I just spent the past few hours lining with neat Humbrol 7 and this has given the result much closer to what I want to achieve.  As these are GWR coaches I will post pics in my thread.

 

Peter

[Jol Wilkinson]

Gloss paint seems to flow better than matt, which is probably why it is recommended for the Bob Moore tubular pen.

 

I have one  plus several bow pens. I have never really succeeded with the Bob Moore pen so now stick with a bow pen. The best I have is a Kern, followed by a Haff and then an Ecobra. I was also given a vintage Kern set, with compass, etc. but haven't tried that yet.

 

I chose Humbrol Facings yellow originally as it was a bit darker than H69 Gloss Yellow. An alternative, although still matt, would be H154 Insignia Yellow. The PPP LNWR coach lining is quite dark (ochre?) and I chose the yellow to make it stand out a more. 

 

One benefit of matt (or possibly satin) paint is that, because it doesn't flow as well as gloss it tends to stay put. A downside is that it wears the tips of the Rotring tubular pens that I sometimes use to fill the corner fillets on the lining (using black ink with a bit of red added).

[Brassey]

3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Gloss paint seems to flow better than matt, which is probably why it is recommended for the Bob Moore tubular pen.

 

I have one  plus several bow pens. I have never really succeeded with the Bob Moore pen so now stick with a bow pen. The best I have is a Kern, followed by a Haff and then an Ecobra. I was also given a vintage Kern set, with compass, etc. but haven't tried that yet.

 

I chose Humbrol Facings yellow originally as it was a bit darker than H69 Gloss Yellow. An alternative, although still matt, would be H154 Insignia Yellow. The PPP LNWR coach lining is quite dark (ochre?) and I chose the yellow to make it stand out a more. 

 

One benefit of matt (or possibly satin) paint is that, because it doesn't flow as well as gloss it tends to stay put. A downside is that it wears the tips of the Rotring tubular pens that I sometimes use to fill the corner fillets on the lining (using black ink with a bit of red added).

Jol, in your article IIRC the ink on the raised beading takes better on the Matt surface. I would doubt that it would adhere as well to gloss. 
 

Peter 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Peter,

 

that's true, although a satin finish paint would probably be a good compromise. I once bought a tin of PPP M&GNR Gorse Yellow in "dull" (satin). It worked well but went off in the pot over time so I bought another which was much darker and no use! There might be some other dark yellow paints in the PPP range but which would suit I don't know, especially as some paints in their online site don't show the colour.

 

Jol

[Hibelroad]

Many thanks to all who have contributed their thoughts on lining, it seems clear that the type of paint, gloss dull or satin, is an important consideration. I suspect my use of gloss is a factor in my inability to consistently control the line width and the cause of unexpected blobs. I'm off to replace my Rotring pens which seem to have got lost in the mists of time and then have another go. Then its practice, practice practice and hopefully I will have something worth showing in due course.  

[ian@stenochs]

I'm interested in your mention of using Rotring pens.  Are you using them with Humbrol paint and if so how do you clean them out?  I have only used mine with ink and cleaning that out is difficult enough.

 

Ian.

[K14]

15 hours ago, ian@stenochs said:

I have only used mine with ink and cleaning that out is difficult enough.

 

Ian.

 

Try a soak in Flash Kitchen Spray:—

 

 

£1/bottle from most places. Best used diluted - there's also a pink-flavoured one that's just as good.

 

I use it in conjunction with a £20 ultrasonic bath, unclogs even the 0.1mm pens... eventually.

 

Not sure I'd risk enamel in an Isograph - it's bad enough in an Uno or a Standardgraph 'nib'. Might be tempted to try it in a Graphos though.

Edited May 12, 2021 by K14
Links

[Brassey]

18 hours ago, ian@stenochs said:

I'm interested in your mention of using Rotring pens.  Are you using them with Humbrol paint

In Jol's original article (MRJ 52) he uses ink through the pens not paints. 

 

I am trying to acquire the technique but using a ruling pen and Phoenix Precision gloss paint as, I no longer have any Rotring pens and, I also want to have a system that works both on GWR as well as LNWR stock using ruling pens and paint.

[Hibelroad]

On 11/05/2021 at 11:13, ian@stenochs said:

I'm interested in your mention of using Rotring pens.  Are you using them with Humbrol paint and if so how do you clean them out?  I have only used mine with ink and cleaning that out is difficult enough.

 

Ian.

I tried paint in Rotring pens many years ago and it was unsuccessful, I think it was the reason they ended up unusable. I have just ordered some new pens and ink and will be following Jol's method more closely. As an aside does anyone use PPP LNWR coach white? It seems more like pale blue to me. I still have some small tins of the original Precision paints and it looks just the same as the current shade. I also have a Ratio coach I painted about forty years ago and I think I must have used Precision paint then but the coach now looks quite white so maybe it ages to white. Also, looking at some photos I took of the TPO in York museum and the white they have used looks like it has a blue tint, so maybe it is all right after all. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

The blue tint was supposed to counteract the aging/yellowing of the varnish. I have seen a piece of an original  panel on the six wheel Picnic Saloon when it was being restored at Quainton and it definitely had a blue tinge. However, by then I had already selected Vauxhall Artic white (then available in cellulose) as my preferred option.

 

The paint formula quoted in LNWR liveries includes a quantity of Ultramarine blue in  coach white.

 

The PPP colour looks too blue (but similar to the Picnic Saloon, as far as I can remember), but that is purely a subjective opinion

Edited May 13, 2021 by Jol Wilkinson
Additional text

[Coal Tank]

On 07/12/2020 at 08:39, Brassey said:

Very nice but too late for my period.  I have a C 0-8-0 to build in 4mm.  I think they look good with the smaller boiler anyway

Hi Peter what about an A class

[Brassey]

2 hours ago, Coal Tank said:

Hi Peter what about an A class

I don’t think there is a readily available kit in 4mm John. 

[Nicktoix]

O yes there is!! 

Just ask London Road. I know cos I designed it.

I've just done some 7mm etches but not built them yet.

Nick

[Brassey]

1 hour ago, Nicktoix said:

O yes there is!! 

Just ask London Road. I know cos I designed it.

I've just done some 7mm etches but not built them yet.

Nick

Tempting though it is, most of the A Class had been converted to simples by the time of my layout- 1912. 
 

in the meantime, Narrow Planet are on with the plates for my C Class and I have an Experiment and Precusor on the go on the workbench. 

[bluestag]

On 08/05/2021 at 05:44, Hibelroad said:

I have a bow pen I bought some thirty years ago but either its not very good or I am no good with it. I have shaped the blades following Ian Rathbones recommendations and it is better but still difficult to get a narrow line.

 

There is a dealer in bow pens who shapes them.    I bought one of his most expensive pens, and it draws extremely thin lines like a dream.    Check out his web site:

 

http://www.goldenarrow.me.uk/contact-orders.htm

[bluestag]

I would swoon for an A class in 7mm.    My layout is about 1900, so no problem running them.

[LNWR18901910]

On 02/01/2021 at 17:04, Coal Tank said:

A bit more progress on the Jumbo I have fitted a High Level 90/1 gear box and it runs quite nicely. 

John 

I wonder if it's possible to make a 4-4-0version of a Precedent Class?

[Brassey]

4 hours ago, LNWR18901910 said:

I wonder if it's possible to make a 4-4-0version of a Precedent Class?

Yes: it's a Precursor Class evolved from the Improved Precedent.  

[bluestag]

On 11/11/2021 at 09:27, Nicktoix said:

O yes there is!! 

Just ask London Road. I know cos I designed it.

I've just done some 7mm etches but not built them yet.

Nick

Nick!   Are you saying that there 7mm etches for an A class?   Sign me up!

[Jol Wilkinson]

11 hours ago, Brassey said:

Yes: it's a Precursor Class evolved from the Improved Precedent.  

 

[LNWR18901910]

Where can I find a kit of an Improved Precdent Class to adapt into a 4-4-0 version of the class? Changing the front axle to two and extending the running board, of course.

This is a mock-up of what it wouod look like.

[Coal Tank]

A lady in waiting 

[Jol Wilkinson]

2 hours ago, LNWR18901910 said:

Where can I find a kit of an Improved Precdent Class to adapt into a 4-4-0 version of the class? Changing the front axle to two and extending the running board, of course.

This is a mock-up of what it wouod look like.

LRM do an etched  4mm kit for the Improved Precedent and a LNWR 6' 6" bogie as used on the 4-4-0 Jubilee and Renown. 

https://traders.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/locos-tenders-chassis/lnwr/

 

Your drawing shows what looks like a Whale style tender, but an earlier 4-4-0 might have the later Webb 2500 gallon tender.

 

AFAIK GEM used to do  a white metal kit but it is no longer available and I haven't seen a pre-owned kit turn up for some time.

[Coal Tank]

Hi, does anyone know if the old Micro raíl LNWR horse box kit is still out there somewhere