For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[coachmann]

Larry love you stories and reminiscences of the transport in the Manchester/Oldham/Ashton side of the area. 

 

Have you visited the Bus museum at Boyle Street behind Queens Road Bus Depot in Cheetham Hill, Manchester.  Motor Buses and a couple of Trolley busses from bygone days on display and some occasionally out on the road .

 

http://gmts.co.uk/.

 

I wonder where the Leyland TD5 on the  No 2 was photographed. that picture was a bit before my time. Wasn't the No 2 limited stop whilst in the Manchester area but the moment it crossed to Chadderton, Oldham it became all stops. The No 2 from memory was a joint service by Oldham Corporation/ Manchester Corporation and North Western Road Car Company and ran at a 20 minute interval.

Sorry to say I have never visited the Boyle Street museu. I have often wished i had donated my SHMD Daimler to them. My old friend John Holmes donated his Oldham PD1/Roe and I suspect Stan Fittons bus is in there too.

 

As you said, the No.2 route was a joint operation between the North Western and Oldham Corporation. Oldham's 'E'-group was responsible for it along with routes 59, 24, 90 and some local routes. But we in G-group worked them as well.  I especially enjoyed the rush-hour 90 which started from Rochdale and ran non-stop from Royton via Broadway to Manchester. However, we had to relieve the 24 at Chadderton Town Hall, a right bummer!

 

The Manchester Streamline was created on computer and is in fact placed on Sea Road in Abergele!  

Edited May 29, 2018 by coachmann

[johnd]

Sorry to say I have never visited the Boyle Street museu. I have often wished i had donated my SHMD Daimler to them. My old friend John Holmes donated his Oldham PD1/Roe and I suspect Stan Fittons bus is in there too.

 

As you said, the No.2 route was a joint operation between the North Western and Oldham Corporation. Oldham's 'E'-group was responsible for it along with routes 59, 24, 90 and some local routes. But we in G-group worked them as well.  I especially enjoyed the rush-hour 90 which started from Rochdale and ran non-stop from Royton via Broadway to Manchester. However, we had to relieve the 24 at Chadderton Town Hall, a right bummer!

Wasn't the D service from Oldham Mumps to Gardners Arms, New Moston  and extended to run from Avro's bus stands for the workers other wise it ran from in front of the Tizer depot on Hollinwood Avenue.

 

Boyle street is worth a visit if you are in the area when its open.

 

Talking of the 90 have watched many go past half full whilst waiting for a 2/24/65 (Manchester Corp) at the Broadway Hotel. One good thing about the 65 was from the upper deck was the good view of 26A Newton Heath ! 

Edited May 29, 2018 by johnd

[coachmann]

Wasn't the D service from Oldham Mumps to Gardners Arms, New Moston  and extended to run from Avro's bus stands for the workers other wise it ran from in front of the Tizer depot on Hollinwood Avenue.

 

Boyle street is worth a visit if you are in the area when its open.

 

Talking of the 90 have watched many go past half full whilst waiting for a 2/24/65 (Manchester Corp) at the Broadway Hotel. One good thing about the 65 was from the upper deck was the good view of 26A Newton Heath ! 

Agreed, although it ran from Rhodes Bank rather than Mumps. I did a few tea reliefs on overtime to Avro's. The early morning 90 we worked was full by the time we left Royton (Shaw Road End). At Stevenson Square, we returned to Oldham as a 34. We had a teatime 90 run as well with a 1s 1d minimum fare to the next stop at Royton. A guy jumped on near the Daily Express offices (which my driver spotted) and tried to book to the Playhouse. I in turn tried to get 1s 1d out of him. So he stood on the platform thinking he would jump off without paying but the lights were green so he missed Playhouse. Same again at Dean Lane, then my driver entered Broadway at quite a lick and he didn't jump off their either. Eventually he leaped near Avros. Free ride ~ long walk. The 30' PD3's with doors that nobody wanted eventually put paid to jumpers...... Not one of Harry Taylors better buys.

Edited May 29, 2018 by coachmann

[PatB]

Here's one to challenge (rather pointlessly I'll admit) the considerable expertise of those here and satisfy my idle curiosity. Does anyone know anything about operators in the Cheltenham area c1970? When I was 3 or 4 years old, we often caught the bus from Gotherington, via Bishops Cleeve, to Cheltenham. It always seemed to be the same bus, a double decker in faded greenish grey. I think it may have had an open platform and memory tells me that I thought it had a rather sad face, which makes me think it might have been a Leyland PD3. If anyone can make anything of that rather vague and ancient description, or knows what it actually was, or at least was likely to be, and who would have operated it in that particular area in 1970-71 I'd be curious to know.

[coachmann]

For me, this picture sums up what I thought of Manchesters buses in the 1940's....A disappointingly grotty fleet decked in red, wartime red & grey or just plain grey. These old Crossleys with Standard bodies always looked like they were about to collapse behind the front axle, but history tells us that after a long and hard life, they were still strong in body. I never traveled on one but they seemed to be everywhere in Piccadilly, or perhaps it was just that I imagined they were seeing as they caught my attention. Typical of the mid 1930's pre-Streamliner  buses was No.502,  AXJ 476, with Metro-Cammel-Crossley body. All the Standards had gone by July 1953....

 

 

The Manchester of the 1950's with old and new in the centre of the city.  FXJ 319 was new in 1940 and withdrawn in 1959....

 

The first post-war buses delivered to Manchester were of the so-called 'relaxed utility' type with Brush bodies on Daimler CWA6 chassism which barely lasted beyond 1951. And so the first real post-war buses were all-Crossley DD42/3 delivered in 1946/7, readily identifiable with but a single headlight. It was said they never went fast enough to need two!  A well sprung and comfortable bus let down by an oil thrsty engine. The HOE7 engine would run hot and was quite gutless compared not just with post-war engines from rival Leyland, AEC and Gardner, but pre-war engines as well. In an attempt to find a solution, Manchester fitted Leyland engines from withdrawn TD1's! No wonder they sounded different...

 

I was very fond of this batch of Leyland PD1's built in 1947 with MetroCammel; 7' 6" wide bodies, but I only rode on the similar buses belonging to Ashton corporation, usually from Hathershaw into Ashton. Bolton and Blackburn had similar buses....

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by coachmann

[coachmann]

Manchester clipped the front wings of some Crossleys if overheating of brakes was found, which did nothing for their appearance.  This preserved example is seen in Rochdale on a Trans-Pennine Rally and retains the clipped wings. The Daimler beside it has Metro-Cammell's 'Phoenix'  design of body, which preceded the better-known 'Orion' type....

 

 

DD42/4 JND 791 was from the penultimate batch of all-Crossley's delivered in 1949, by which time the front wing profile had been squared-off and had a pressed strengthening ridge. Note also the Maltese Cross on the radiator had been replaced by the name 'Crossley'.This bus was withdrawn in October 1967....

 

Manchester earlier post-war design Leyland bodies were 26' long, but I have always considered the 27' long Leyland 'Farington' body with flush window frames one of the smartest of the early 1950's designs. NNB171 is on the Glossop stand at the North Western Road Car bus station in Manchester on Route 6 shared with the NWRC and SHMD. To my knowledge, I only travelled on this route once by SHMD bus....

 

This body was an Manchester variant of Burlinghams standard design with its exaggerated rounded windows. However, married to a squared off upright front-end, it was a design miss-match. Delivered in 1958, they all passed to Selnec....

 

The PD2/40 with Metro-Cammel 'Orion' body with a very upright front end was far more satisfactory and seen on on Route 59. Pictured passing the Crown Wallpaper store in Oldham where I met the 17½ years old blonde who later became my wife.  I conducted one of these red buses once around Uppermill on Route 14 when the Manchester conductor fell ill. Chatting with the driver in Uppermill, he called it hill-billy country and he told me the crew's would not stand for any messing around while up there. I soon witnessed this when passenger jumped on quick-style at every stop and I had the bell just behind me ready for a quick getaway.  An inspector relieved me at Mumps to my disappointment, as the experience was better than sitting in the canteen 'spare'....

 

Surely the ugliest front end ever wished on a bus. What was Daimler doing?!!!  4654 VM was the very last conventional front-engine half-cab bus bought by Manchester in 1963. It is parked up just beyond the old Yelloway stand to prevent passenger boarding it. Route 90 was a truly express route, it working non-stop to Manchester after it left Royton.  One of Rochdale's AEC Regents III's is seen on the outdoor bus park; still gorgeous despite it's ice cream van livery....

 

We have to back-peddle to see the rear-engine buses, because Manchester continued to purchase traditional front engine buses for three years after it's first rear-engine buses arrived in April 1960. UNB 621 was the very first one and was quite cute in that it had a wooden life-guard between the front and rear wheels....

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by coachmann

[RANGERS]

Here's one to challenge (rather pointlessly I'll admit) the considerable expertise of those here and satisfy my idle curiosity. Does anyone know anything about operators in the Cheltenham area c1970? When I was 3 or 4 years old, we often caught the bus from Gotherington, via Bishops Cleeve, to Cheltenham. It always seemed to be the same bus, a double decker in faded greenish grey. I think it may have had an open platform and memory tells me that I thought it had a rather sad face, which makes me think it might have been a Leyland PD3. If anyone can make anything of that rather vague and ancient description, or knows what it actually was, or at least was likely to be, and who would have operated it in that particular area in 1970-71 I'd be curious to know.

Could it have been these?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=castleways+winchcombe&client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&prmd=minv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL0uud9q3bAhWEzqQKHbfABCkQ_AUIEigC&biw=320&bih=438#imgrc=wcTC3r8co38eeM:

 

Castleways operated some services to the North of Cheltenham, although they were better known for high spec’ touring coaches.

[E3109]

Manchester clipped the front wings of some Crossleys if overheating of brakes was found, which did nothing for their appearance.  This preserved example is seen in Rochdale on a Trans-Pennine Rally and retains the clipped wings. The Daimler beside it has Metro-Cammell's 'Phoenix'  design of body, which preceded the better-known 'Orion' type....

 

WEB Buses 110.jpg

 

DD42/4 JND 791 was from the penultimate batch of all-Crossley's delivered in 1949, by which time the front wing profile had been squared-off and had a pressed strengthening ridge. Note also the Maltese Cross on the radiator had been replaced by the name 'Crossley'.This bus was withdrawn in October 1967....

WEB Buses 111.jpg

 

Manchester earlier post-war design Leyland bodies were 26' long, but I have always considered the 27' long Leyland 'Farington' body with flush window frames one of the smartest of the early 1950's designs. NNB171 is on the Glossop stand at the North Western Road Car bus station in Manchester on Route 6 shared with the NWRC and SHMD. To my knowledge, I only travelled on this route once by SHMD bus....

WEB Buses 112.jpg

 

This body was an Manchester variant of Burlinghams standard design with its exaggerated rounded windows. However, married to a squared off upright front-end, it was a design miss-match. Delivered in 1958, they all passed to Selnec....

WEB Buses 115.jpg

 

The PD2/40 with Metro-Cammel 'Orion' body with a very upright front end was far more satisfactory. Pictured at the top of West Street, Oldham on the long 59 route.  I conducted one once around Uppermill on Route 14 when the Manchester conductor fell ill. Chatting with the driver in Uppermill, he called it hill-billy country and he told me the crew's would not stand for any messing around while up there. I soon witnessed this when we pulled onto the stand at Delph station. The passenger boarded the bus like lightning and I had the bell just behind me ready for a quick getaway.  When our Oldham buses stopped at Delph, the passenger would slowly get up off the wall and say 'after you' and take ages to get on board.  An inspector relieved me at Mumps, but I didn't want to get off, as the experience was better than sitting in the canteen 'spare'....

WEB Buses 116.jpg

 

Surely the ugliest front end ever wished on a bus. What was Daimler doing?!!!  4654 VM was the very last conventional front-engine half-cab bus bought by Manchester in 1963. It is parked up just beyond the old Yelloway stand to prevent passenger boarding it. Route 90 was a truly express route, it working non-stop to Manchester after it left Royton.  One of Rochdale's AEC Regents III's is seen on the outdoor bus park; still gorgeous despite it's ice cream van livery....

WEB Buses 113.jpg

 

We have to back-peddle to see the rear-engine buses, because Manchester continued to purchase traditional front engine buses for three years after it's first rear-engine buses arrived in April 1960. UNB 621 was the very first one and was quite cute in that it had a wooden life-guard between the front and rear wheels....

WEB Buses 117.jpg

 

Hi Coachmann

The 'tween-axles lifeguards you refer to were known as dog rails in Wigan, maybe elsewhere too?

Halifax Corpy continued to specify these on their NCME Fleetlines to the end of its existence, perhaps the last Municipal to do so?

 

Incidentally, do you have any photos of the absolutely superb Mancunians?

A trendsetter for sure, we even had a few cast offs from Manchester depots for a while, when our home grown Atlanteans were being withdrawn.

The only ones I remember at Wigan were 1142 (one of the rarer ELCB single door variants and now awaiting restoration) and 1187, which was the last Atlanteans Mancunian to be withdrawn. But there were quite a few more, plus the occasional driver trainer on secondment.

[coachmann]

Incidentally, do you have any photos of the absolutely superb Mancunians?

A trendsetter for sure, we even had a few cast offs from Manchester depots for a while, when our home grown Atlanteans were being withdrawn.

The only ones I remember at Wigan were 1142 (one of the rarer ELCB single door variants and now awaiting restoration) and 1187, which was the last Atlanteans Mancunian to be withdrawn. But there were quite a few more, plus the occasional driver trainer on secondment.

I was going to skip them ha ha.... I will be perfectly honest and say the Atlantean and its derivatives killed off my bus interest just as diesels had on the railway. That said, my recent use of rear engine buses while visiting hospital have revived my interest somewhat and are partly responsible for these centries on Mr.Pestells thread. 

 

LNA 294G was new in 1969 and was one of the attractive  red and white Mancunians, the third generation to carry that name. i have never rdden on one. But I did build and paint a good few back in the early 1970's for model bus Federation members plus a commission for Barclays Bank carrying their all over advertisement....

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by coachmann

[E3109]

Haha I get that. You probably see Atlanteans and Fleetlines in the same way as I see Dennis Darts and these Enviro-type thingies or whatever they're called. It's a generational thing, I suppose!

 

Just out of interest I was walking past a couple of Stagey 'deckers today (no idea what chassis but they were definitely Alexander bodies) and it was nice to see that they had back-to-back seating over the rear axle, first appeared on the L500 Liverpool Corpy Atlanteans I believe.

[E3109]

Absolutely gorgeous sir.

Pity GMT had a policy of binning perfectly serviceable buses after only 13 years, still it was public money they were spending so it didn't matter to them.

I realise you may well disagree but those beauties could easily have put in as many years' service as the lovely old Crossleys and Daimlers did, if it wasn't for that policy.

 

To my eyes the Mancunians still carry a modern look, as do the Selnec/GMT 'Standards'.

[great central]

Manchester clipped the front wings of some Crossleys if overheating of brakes was found, which did nothing for their appearance. This preserved example is seen in Rochdale on a Trans-Pennine Rally and retains the clipped wings. The Daimler beside it has Metro-Cammell's 'Phoenix' design of body, which preceded the better-known 'Orion' type....

 

WEB Buses 110.jpg

 

DD42/4 JND 791 was from the penultimate batch of all-Crossley's delivered in 1949, by which time the front wing profile had been squared-off and had a pressed strengthening ridge. Note also the Maltese Cross on the radiator had been replaced by the name 'Crossley'.This bus was withdrawn in October 1967....

WEB Buses 111.jpg

 

Manchester earlier post-war design Leyland bodies were 26' long, but I have always considered the 27' long Leyland 'Farington' body with flush window frames one of the smartest of the early 1950's designs. NNB171 is on the Glossop stand at the North Western Road Car bus station in Manchester on Route 6 shared with the NWRC and SHMD. To my knowledge, I only travelled on this route once by SHMD bus....

WEB Buses 112.jpg

 

This body was an Manchester variant of Burlinghams standard design with its exaggerated rounded windows. However, married to a squared off upright front-end, it was a design miss-match. Delivered in 1958, they all passed to Selnec....

WEB Buses 115.jpg

 

The PD2/40 with Metro-Cammel 'Orion' body with a very upright front end was far more satisfactory and seen on on Route 59. Pictured passing the Crown Wallpaper store in Oldham where I met the 17½ years old blonde who later became my wife. I conducted one of these red buses once around Uppermill on Route 14 when the Manchester conductor fell ill. Chatting with the driver in Uppermill, he called it hill-billy country and he told me the crew's would not stand for any messing around while up there. I soon witnessed this when passenger jumped on quick-style at every stop and I had the bell just behind me ready for a quick getaway. An inspector relieved me at Mumps to my disappointment, as the experience was better than sitting in the canteen 'spare'....

WEB Buses 116.jpg

 

Surely the ugliest front end ever wished on a bus. What was Daimler doing?!!! 4654 VM was the very last conventional front-engine half-cab bus bought by Manchester in 1963. It is parked up just beyond the old Yelloway stand to prevent passenger boarding it. Route 90 was a truly express route, it working non-stop to Manchester after it left Royton. One of Rochdale's AEC Regents III's is seen on the outdoor bus park; still gorgeous despite it's ice cream van livery....

WEB Buses 113.jpg

 

We have to back-peddle to see the rear-engine buses, because Manchester continued to purchase traditional front engine buses for three years after it's first rear-engine buses arrived in April 1960. UNB 621 was the very first one and was quite cute in that it had a wooden life-guard between the front and rear wheels....

WEB Buses 117.jpg

The advert on the side of NNB171 made me smile:-)

[Gwiwer]

I have certainly heard the term "dog rails" used along the Sussex coast though not in the far south-west nor in London which covers most of the country I am truly familiar with.  I believe quite a number of early rear-engined designs had those wooden rails in the wheelbase.  Southdown Queen Mary PD3s did too, and while contemporaneous with many a rear-engined type they were of course powered in the correct manner

[coachmann]

I have certainly heard the term "dog rails" used along the Sussex coast though not in the far south-west nor in London which covers most of the country I am truly familiar with.  I believe quite a number of early rear-engined designs had those wooden rails in the wheelbase.  Southdown Queen Mary PD3s did too, and while contemporaneous with many a rear-engined type they were of course powered in the correct manner

A friend who drove for Crosville and I rode on the Southdown Queen Mary PD3's that Crosville purchased They worked between Pensarn and Dyserth and were really smart buses. 

 

Regarding dog rails, after removing some body panels off my bus one day, I was replacing some rotten wood and spotted a handy length of timber lying on the ground beside where I was working, so I cut around 4 feet off it.  Next  minute I heard "I don't believe it!"  The chap working on the bus beside me had come to re-attach his dog rail and found it had been circumcised by 4 feet!  I know it sounds awful but I couldn't keep a straight face.....It was like a scene from a Lauren & Hardy movie.

Edited May 30, 2018 by coachmann

[PatB]

Could it have been these?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=castleways+winchcombe&client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&prmd=minv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL0uud9q3bAhWEzqQKHbfABCkQ_AUIEigC&biw=320&bih=438#imgrc=wcTC3r8co38eeM:

 

Castleways operated some services to the North of Cheltenham, although they were better known for high spec’ touring coaches.

 

Not impossible, but I don't see anything really familiar there. This is as likely to be a result of trying to identify an obscure bus from a near 50 year old memory which, at best, will be as seen by a 4 year old as to anything else .

 

If it helps, I seem to remember inward facing bench seats over the rear axle, one of which (the RHS one) partially hid a big chequerplate hump in the floor which my mechanical guru older brother (well, he was 8 and good with Meccano) told me was for a mysterious object called a "diff", whatever that was .

[coachmann]

 Rochdale lay at the opposite ends of the bus routes from Manchester (route 17, 24 & 90) and Ashton (Route 9). My mother hailed from Royton and still had relatives there when i was young and so I was familiar with the 'streamlined' blue and cream AEC Regents, which also carried me in the opposite direction to Ashton-U-Lyne. To my mind this was the most regal of fleets, probably because I only saw and rode on the buses this operatr considered best suited to the long Route 9. I never saw the multitude of old pre-war and wartime chassis and bodies that Rochdale operated on its local routes and at peak times. Fleet number 122 was one of a trio of AEC Regents with English Electric body delivered in 1936 and seen in Rochdale circa 1950 in near original condition...

 

 

AEC Fleet No.120 was older having entered service in 1935 with a Metro-Cammell body. It is pictured with its Salmesbody body fitted in 1951. The bus was withdrawn in 1957...

 

During 1948, six second-hand buses were bought from Sheffield and Halifax due to prolonged deliveries of new buses This ex.Halifax Corporation 1938-built Regent I has a Park Royal body. It is alongside a Regent I with Weymann body delivered to Rochdale in 1936. Manchester style indicator boxes had been fitted....

 

EDK 648 was a Leyland TD7 with English Electric body delivered in 1940. It lasted long enough to acquire the modified livery with no streamline swoop on the bottom deck and blue cab front....

 

This excellent john Fozard picture shows Fleet No. 162, a 1939 Leyland TD5 with Weymann body about to take off for Thornham, the boundary with Oldham Corporation. Oldham destination screens always showed 'Summit' when working from the other side of the hill. One of Oldhams post-war Daimlers is working the full route past Thornham to Oldham and Ashton in the days when these Daimler engines buses were deemed good enough....

 

Rochdales first post-war buses were ten Daimlers, (some with Daimler and some with AEC engines), with Massey 'relaxed austerity' bodies with upholstered seats and Manchester style indicators. These were delivered in 1945...

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by coachmann

[Enterprisingwestern]

Larry, I don't know whether you can put any meat on the bones detail wise of my pics in post #79, your Manchester knowledge being somewhat greater than mine!

 

Mike.

[coachmann]

Larry, I don't know whether you can put any meat on the bones detail wise of my pics in post #79, your Manchester knowledge being somewhat greater than mine!

 

Mike.

Hi Mike, I could barely read the registration plates on my screen, but they appear to be TNA 556 and TNA 563, both Daimler CVG6K's with Burlingham bodies delivered to Manchester Corporation in 1957/8. The bus on the right has a Manchester-made replacement radiator grill, often fitted when the original Daimler unit had been damaged in an accident

[coachmann]

FDK 331 with Weymann body was the very first of the AEC Regent III's to arrive in Rochdale's bus fleet in 1947 following a lengthy wait. Note the drop down windows and the rear end details....

 

 

GDK 143 is also representative of the earlier 7' 6" wide buses with the body swept out behind the rear axle. No.43 is shown in the modified swoop livery with blue cab front. The deeper strip over the windows gave the impression that the windows were shallower...

 

GDK 401 to 407 delivered in 1948 to 8' width had me fooled as a young lad, as I wondered why they lacked the outward flare of the lower body side. The reality was they were not Weymann bodies, but East Lancashire! When one arrived on the stand in Ashton I just had to ride on it, but the conductor told me to board the bus in front. I hid around the corner until the first bus had departed then climbed aboard. 204 is stood on at that very bus stop in Ashton......

 

Fleet No.214 is from the 1949 batch showing the 8' wide Weymann body and shallower rain strip over the windows....

 

HDK 23-32 were delivered in 1950 amnd shows well the original livery with blue swoops on both decks and cream cab front. When the lower deck swoop was abandoned, the split between blue and cream was higher up the bonnet to line up with the body side.... 

 

The East Lancashire bodied Regent III's delivered in 1952 lacked the beautiful lines of the earlier bodies. Stan Fitton preserved No. 235....

 

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by coachmann

[coachmann]

As a bus enthusiast, I wasn't overwhelmed by the tin-front era (and even less so by rear-engine buses), but at least Leyland and AEC  continued to offer external rads as an option. Crossley and Leyland had both designed their bodies to suit their radiators, but things changed once the post-war rush for new buses was over.

 

Rochdales first purchases after the Regent III's were these tin front Daimlers. This one is on the long route 17 to Manchester....

 

 

Then the magnificent Regent V's began to arrive. This one is laying over outside the fire station in Ashton town centre. I spent many a penny in that cafe while waiting for a bus that took my fancy to deliver me back to Oldham...

 

The introduction of spray painting to achieve a significant reduction in labour costs in late 1961 was a real downer after the lovely monastral blue 'streamlined' livery. It is said a new blue called Larkspur was adopted for the few remaining parts that weren't cream....

 

What a come down! Once the cream livery became widespread in the Rochdale fleet, I stopped using that corporations buses unless an old Regent III turned up. Besides, I began work on Oldham corporation buses in January 1961 and usually caught one of 'our' buses if only for a chat with the guard....

Edited June 1, 2018 by coachmann

[coachmann]

Oldham's municipal bus fleet was once described to me a 'Pride 'o Northern Union', but then Oldhamer's were proud of their town. My thoughts when our family moved to mum's town are unprintable! Be that as it may, I did like the buses. Below is one of Oldhams trams on Route 20 from Waterhead to Manchester. I only have one memory of riding on one and one of my mother relations took me upstairs because she smoked. It creaked and banged along and looked very dowdy inside. One of Manchester's  Crossley 'Standards' is ready to return to the city on route 82 in this picture of Hollinwood terminus....

 

 

The three Leyland TD4's with Leyland bodies had long lives considering the problems associated with this metal framed 6-bay design, and the last one wasn't withdraw until 1954. No.104 is seen leaving the Wallshaw Place bus garage where I booked-on as a guard (conductor in other language) for over four years from January 1961 to mid June 1965....

 

Oldham Town Hall and the War Memorial just after hostilities ceased in 1945. I came to know the town well and all my schooling took place there. A Manchester Corporation Leyland Streamliner is running down Yorkshire Street towards it next stop at Mumps Bridge past one of Oldham's older trams on route 1 from Waterhead.  Standing beside the town hall is BU 7946, Fleet No.58, a TD3 with English Electric body purchased in 1934. It is waiting to depart for Stalybridge....

 

This is the cobbled roundabout at 'top o' town shortly after the war when the signs had been put back in place. Rather cutely, the publisher of the photographer had removed the tramlines, which roughly followed the darker line of cobbles, and no one is using the marked crossings which leads me to suspect the pedestrians have been placed there. Even on an early Sunday morning, no one would have been daft enough to walk across the wide open stretches of road on that roundabout. Apart from a pre-war Rover car, the only other traffic is a pre-war Leyland TD5 and a brand new postwar Leyland PD1 , both with 7' 6" wide Roe bodies....

 

 

Without doubt, the pre-war Titans with English Electric bodies were my favourite. To a boys mind they were very old....They looked old with that raked windscreen. In fact the ones I rode on were delivered in 1937. I have seen the outline drawings English Electric tendered to Oldham and the body was drawn to resemble a typical 5-bay Roe product, but what actually arrived in 1937 was the older 6-bay body with V-front almost piano front profile. English Electric were in fact building far more modern looking 5-bay buses at the time, but they may have promised the corporation an early delivery if they were prepared to accept bodies of the style purchased previously (will we ever know?). I can still picture the front bulkhead with English Electric emblazoned in gold beside the electric light switch box on the right and 'No Spitting' on the left had side....

 

These TD4's were actually older than the buses above, but Oldham got 20 years service out of them and their Roe bodies. They had a normal staircase and so lacked the characteristic Roe half-round window in the staircase. Roe's safety design staircase was fitted to later purchases right up to the mid 1950's.  There was an incident at this spot in Shaw Wren's Nest when our next door neighbor, a bus conductor, came home with a broken arm in the very early 1950's. I learned later his bus was one of Oldhams Daimlers with pre-selector gearbox. The driver was moving forward to reverse where the titan is reversing in the picture below and had pulled up the safety button and pre-selected reverse. All would have gone well had not something made him jump on the selector pedal as if it was a clutch before he reached the reversing point. Of course the pedal threw it straight into reverse and the bus stood on its nose!  Poor Mr. Mills, the conductor, flew down the bus breaking his arm in the process.....

Edited June 1, 2018 by coachmann

[Prometheus]

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this so far and the photographs are magnificent, particularly the tinted ones. Many thanks and long may you post!

 

Tony

[asa]

Agree with Tony,thoroughly enjoying these tales and magnificent photos.

[coachmann]

The colour images were assembled from components parts with each individual peice detailed separately before being dropped on a background. The program was a old one called Microsoft Photodraw that came with my first home computer in 2000. One could trick later PC's into supporting it, but Windows 10 refused to recognize it. A sad loss because it was a great program for anyone with an artistic bent or anyone who simply wanted to design their business material and letter heads. Some 'bits' used in previous images on this thread....

 

 

[coachmann]

This picture epitomizes area in the early to mid 1950's with over-crowded buses built before the war leaning on weakened nearside springs and belching smoke as they journeyed to Oldham town centre. Leading the ensemble in Shaw is No.202, one of the large batch of Leyland TD5's built with Roe bodies in 1940 to replace trams. It is followed by two older Roe bodied Titans and possibly a 1950's PD2....

 

 

The first post-war deliveries in 1946 also had Roe bodies, which differed little from the pre-war design. They were always referred to as 'Utilities' at Oldham, probably because they lacked heaters and had leather seats. To my horror, I relieved one on the busy Route 59 to Manchester one Saturday afternoon with a full load including standing passengers. Standing passenger on a 7' 6" wide bus was no joke when trying to collect fares and look after the platform at just about every lamp post!  

 

The first 8' wide buses were 50 Leyland PD1/3's with Roe bodies that reverted to pre-war standards with moquette upholstered seats and heaters. FBU 252 is outside Oldham Art School  on Union Street which I was at from the age of thirteen and coincidentally is on route 'G' to an out of town housing estate where I lived at the time...

 

An atmospheric shot of a PD1 surmounting the climb to Lydgate on the limited stop service to Greenfield when new...

 

Following a batch of single-deckers, the next new buses were Crossley DD42's with Crossleys standard post-war body developed to Manchesetr specification. They were good looking and gave a very comfortable ride, but this counted for nothing to drivers who struggled to keep time with heavy loadings while battling with heavy steering and a weak engine. It was said that Oldham wanted to impress neighboring operators with these Crossleys and immediately put them on the limited stop service from Greenfield to Manchester, but they could barely climb out of Greenfield! I remember Fleet No. 303 was a particularly bad one. In fairness, the the later batch of Crossley DD42's had the much improved "Downgraught" engine and constant-mesh gearbox, but no driver would trust anything Crossley by that time. The bus below is from the second batch, and one is preserved....

 

Daimler CVD6's with both Roe and Crossley bodies arrived in 1948 and 1949.  Below is one of the Roe bodied examples brand new in the original style of paint finish with a shallow maroon band above the lower deck windows. One of this batch was given an almost all-maroon livery in Coronation year as an experiment, but it seems the townspeople objected..... 

 

Harry Taylor, the general manager, bought six 'scrap' Daimler CVD6's from Birmingham Corporation Transport in 1964 for their engines.Here lined up in Oldham Wallshaw Street garage behind a Crossley saloon....

 

Their Daimler engines were installed in six of Oldham Daimlers while friend John Holmes suggested the chrome Daimler radiators be fitted as well so that crews could readily recognize the re-engined buses. These 'Brummie' buses were re-vitalized and we even got them on the express services to Greenfield during the rush hour. In the shot below, two re-engined Daimlers are seen climbing Yorkshire Street, Oldham, during the rush hour. The leading bus would take up route 8 to Shaw once it reached Hollinwood....

Edited June 3, 2018 by coachmann