Street running in the UK

[john new]

You're not thinking of this, are you? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patiala_State_Monorail_Trainways

 

Or, perhaps this?

 

I can't think of one of the former type in Ireland, but my memory is far from infallible.

 

Kevin

The first link may well be the one I had in my mind. Memory playing tricks and merging the two.

Edited May 16, 2017 by john new

[keefer]

Dundee docks had quite an extensive network, which was certainly use with diesel shunters - there may have been a section along Camperdown Rd.

Whiteinch and Meadowside in Glasgow had street running, IIRC the wagons ran on their flanges on the inset rails. Meadowside had a large granary served by rail, but not sure when it stopped (on my phone at the mo')

 

Edit: I believe it was the Clydeside Tramway

Edited May 16, 2017 by keefer

[pH]

In addition to trains running on Glasgow Corporation tram tracks to Fairfields in Govan - http://www.govanhistory.org.uk/img/main/mi1_849.jpg - they also ran on the tracks further west, to Stephens yard at Linthouse. Here's a steam loco on that stretch - http://testing.imagenmedia.co.uk/images/ipaw/9.jpg - and a very poor picture of a battery electric loco on the same stretch of road - http://testing.imagenmedia.co.uk/images/ipaw/10.jpg . Apparently, a diesel was used as well, but I've not found a picture of that.

 

In Greenock, a line ran down Arthur Street from the Gourock line, over Charing Cross, to the harbours and Scotts yard. It was still in place in the 1960s, though I don't know if it was still in use. Here's an early picture of it - http://www.mckechnies.net/family/greenock/arthur-street.jpg . The buildings shown were replaced by Hastie's engine works, which in turn have now been demolished.

[bennyboy]

There was the line down Moss Lane in Altrincham that led to a gasworks.

 

 

A Jackson's coach passes a steam locomotive, Altrincham by Museum of Transport Greater Manchester archive, on Flickr

[eastglosmog]

Of course, on a very serious note, for real street running,there is always Collett 1462 setting off in the Titfield Thunderbolt - no rails required!

http://www.rail.co.uk/images/4548/original/titfield_6.jpg

Edited May 16, 2017 by eastglosmog

[PhilJ W]

The WCPR had a road section, I think the private railway at ICI may have had one also because all their engines had bells fitted

The WCPR had no street running as such but the level crossing at Clevendon All Saints was at such an acute angle, almost parallel to the road that a short train would be between the gates when crossing,

[phil_sutters]

Another place where street running took place was Gloucester Docks (GWR and MR) - there were rails laid down Llanthony Road and Commercial Road.  Attached link (I hope) to PRORAIL shows an ex MR tank there. http://www.prorail.co.uk/BWselection.php?id=93

Sadly, all long gone before I knew the place.

Dad snapped this one

 

[phil_sutters]

Dundee docks had quite an extensive network, which was certainly use with diesel shunters - there may have been a section along Camperdown Rd.

Whiteinch and Meadowside in Glasgow had street running, IIRC the wagons ran on their flanges on the inset rails. Meadowside had a large granary served by rail, but not sure when it stopped (on my phone at the mo')

 

Edit: I believe it was the Clydeside Tramway

Not diesel but Dundee Docks

[Pacific231G]

You're not thinking of this, are you? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patiala_State_Monorail_Trainways

 

Or, perhaps this?

 

I can't think of one of the former type in Ireland, but my memory is far from infallible.

 

Kevin

Most monorails appear to be trying to to get round some non-existent patent for a conventional railway but the Ewing system used on the Patiala State Monorail one was quite interesting,  particularly for a railway specifically designed to run along a public road.  Most of the weight, about 95%, is on the double flanged rail wheels with just enough on the road borne outrigger to keep locomotive and trailing vehicles upright .

As can be seen here, the surface the road wheel runs on needs to be firm and flat but it doesn't have to carry much of a loading while the single rail can run on the the side of the road out of the way of other traffic so doesn't need to be expensively inset.

So far as I know the only use of the Ewing system with locomotives was on the 50 mile long Patiala system from 1907 to 1927 but it was also used on the bullock hauled Kundala Valley Railway carrying tea from 1902-1908 before that was replaced by a conventional 2ft gauge steam railway. 

I don't know if it was used on any other industrial railways but it could have assumed far greater importance in a different situation. I'm not sure if canal towpaths count as roadside but In 1898 Siemens came up with this design for an electric canal haulage tractor that was tried out experiemntally on the Finow canal

In 1900 they exhibited this developed version intended for the St. Dennis canal at the Paris exhibition .

In this case about 85% of the weight was carried by the flanged rail wheels and about 15% by the "road" wheel. which either ran on a light rail with no flange gap or simply on the flat towpath. This left the towpath clear for towing horses and other traffic.

In the end the St. Dennis Canal scheme wasn't pursued and in Germany only the Teltow canal near Berlin used electric rail haulage over its 37km length. That lasted from 1905-1945 but the local authorities rejected the monorail so electric tractors ran on a conventional metre gauge railway.

 

In France, canal haulage by electric rail locos was developed from the 1900s on a far greater scale and by the 1920s equipped well over a  thousand kilometres of canals across North and East France from Dunkirk in the north to Mulhouse in the east. The towing service was maintained until the end of the 1960s, by when most barges were self propelled, but a few section associated with the longer canal tunnels were still operating into the 1980s. This network also used conventional railway track laid on sleepers mostly metre gauge but 600mm where towpaths were narrower in the formerly German regions of Alsace. However, unless the trak was inlaid (as it was around wharves and in some towns and villages) the railway track effectively replaced the towpath and other forms of canalside haulage, mostly horses, were banned.

If the Ewing system had been developed for this purpose it might have been both cheaper in track costs and more flexible.

In terms of energy use hauling a barge along a canal using an electric rail tractor is the most efficient form of inland freight transport ever invented but rather less so in terms of the number of people needed to operate it.

 

 

.

 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Pacific231G]

Aside from Weymouth, and the W&U, the lines at Yarmouth seem to be the most photographed with diesel traction, for instance http://railphotoprints.uk/p142024154/h2fa406aa#h2fa406aa

 

K

It finally closed in 1945 so far too early to be dieselised but I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the Wantage tramway in Oxfordshire. It opened in 1875 so very early for a roadside steam tramway in Britain. There was also of course the 3ft 6in gauge Wolverton and Stony Stratford tramway and the Swansea and Mumbles Railway - opened in 1804 as the world's first passenger railway. I think in that case it was more a question of a railside road than a roadside railway as the adjoining turnpike road didn't open until 1826. The Mumbles wasn't steam hauled until 1877 and eventually in 1929 became an electric tramway in all but name though I think almost all of it was on its own formation rather than being on the road.    

[Martino]

Slough Trading Estate Railway? Ran across, along and beside the roads.

[Nearholmer]

231G

 

Following your lead: The Alford and Sutton; The Portstewart; and, The West Carberry.

 

K

[Londontram]

Street running along North Quay from Yarmouth Vauxhall continued into the diesel era.  A while back, there was a magnificent photo as a frontispiece in Railway Magazine - a Drewry shunter emerging from the gap between houses with a Birds Eye train.  Somethings similar (but less dramatic) can be found here: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/great_yarmouth_herring_industry/index.shtml

I think this might be the picture your referring to locally known as the hole in the wall

The pub to the left still stands and is a popular Yarmoth pub called the white swan, the building on the right has gone to make a new road way. The loco here is on the exchange line from the old M&GN station and yard and after a couple of hundred yards will join the line from Yarmouth Vauxhall station to the quay

Here's another view of some street running (Sorry for any copyright infringements but both images have been available on the web for many years) This is taken soon after leaving Yarmouths Vauxhall station and on its way to Yarmouth quay

Edited May 17, 2017 by Londontram

[Liam]

It finally closed in 1945 so far too early to be dieselised but I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the Wantage tramway in Oxfordshire. It opened in 1875 so very early for a roadside steam tramway in Britain. There was also of course the 3ft 6in gauge Wolverton and Stony Stratford tramway and the Swansea and Mumbles Railway - opened in 1804 as the world's first passenger railway. I think in that case it was more a question of a railside road than a roadside railway as the adjoining turnpike road didn't open until 1826. The Mumbles wasn't steam hauled until 1877 and eventually in 1929 became an electric tramway in all but name though I think almost all of it was on its own formation rather than being on the road.

 

We mustn't forget the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway - the locos were fitted with 'skirts' and cow catchers for that very purpose. Apparently, during the fruit harvest time some wagons could exceed 25 or 30.

[Nick Gough]

Welsh Highland - or is this just an elongated level crossing?

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=2GXbVtvR&id=D404F464D2886684861078EE6297A612961191AA&thid=OIP.2GXbVtvRvkiYFwBrkpcJjAEsDH&q=welsh+highland+railway+porthmadog&simid=608008710193088207&selectedindex=2&mode=overlay&first=1

[Nearholmer]

231G

 

Further to your previous ....... I'm boiling-up plans for a c1960 mini-layout in finescale 0 at the moment, a 'plank' for a railbus and shunter to play on, and one evil thought that had occurred to me was to 'do' Wantage Upper Yard, modernised to that date. I could strip away a lot of the quaintness, and in so doing offend lots of people!

 

K

[BG John]

231G

 

Further to your previous ....... I'm boiling-up plans for a c1960 mini-layout in finescale 0 at the moment, a 'plank' for a railbus and shunter to play on, and one evil thought that had occurred to me was to 'do' Wantage Upper Yard, modernised to that date. I could strip away a lot of the quaintness, and in so doing offend lots of people!

 

K

A course person like you invading the territory of us fine people would be offensive enough, without committing sacrilege to Wantage as well .

[PhilJ W]

A bit out of context as it wasn't a roadside tramway but was very similar to the Ewing system. There was a monorail operated on Canvey Island that used the motive power (a horse) instead of a wheel to balance the vehicle. Type 'monorail' into the search for more pics.

http://www.canveyisland.org/page/hesters_monorail

[Pacific231G]

A bit out of context as it wasn't a roadside tramway but was very similar to the Ewing system. There was a monorail operated on Canvey Island that used the motive power (a horse) instead of a wheel to balance the vehicle. Type 'monorail' into the search for more pics.

http://www.canveyisland.org/page/hesters_monorail

That's fascinating Phil. I sort of wondered whether the horse would be in danger of nudging the car off the rail if it strayed from side to side but maybe they came up with a harness to avoid that.

Most passenger monorails seem to have confirmed the old adage of being  " the transport system of the future, always have been, always will be". They always seem to be trying to do things that railways do better and get very confused by junctions and level crossings but they've clearly been far more successful in various forms of material handling. The one at Amberley is well worth seeing.

[Nearholmer]

BGJ,

 

'Coarse' I admit to; it was my grandfather who was obsessed by golf, not me.

 

And, you've sealed it now; as soon as I can find my Wantage Tramway books, I will start the virtual redevelopment of Wantage town centre, including ripping down all those crumbling old buildings in the High Street, and replacing them with something nice and (c1960) modern. Early concept for New Wantage illustrated below.

 

K

Edited May 17, 2017 by Nearholmer

[BG John]

Pushing boundaries is good! I didn't say you shouldn't do it .

 

I'm only planning to push them a little bit, by modelling a Colonel Stephens line when it was a very smart little operation, rather than what everyone assumes to have been built in a state of weed covered decay! He wasn't a Colonel in those days either!

[Joseph_Pestell]

For some strange reason I have a fascination with street running trains. There's just something about a train at Weymouth Quay running along the road I find very interesting.

So other than the obvious Weymouth Quay were there any other examples in the U.K.? Especially ones that lasted into the diesel era? The only other two I can think of are the bridges at Porthmadog and Ribble steam railway. Any others.

Talking of Weymouth, the ferry terminal on the platform at Weymouth Harbour is up for let at the moment. Not quite sure what one might do with it.....

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 ...Early concept for New Wantage illustrated below...

 

 I can see the end result in the present St Evenage town centre and would really rather not...

[phil_sutters]

A course person like you invading the territory of us fine people would be offensive enough, without committing sacrilege to Wantage as well .

A postcard from a contemporary era seems to show that there were unbelievers even then

[EddieB]

I think this might be the picture your referring to locally known as the hole in the wall

 

The pub to the left still stands and is a popular Yarmoth pub called the white swan, the building on the right has gone to make a new road way. The loco here is on the exchange line from the old M&GN station and yard and after a couple of hundred yards will join the line from Yarmouth Vauxhall station to the quay

Here's another view of some street running (Sorry for any copyright infringements but both images have been available on the web for many years) This is taken soon after leaving Yarmouths Vauxhall station and on its way to Yarmouth quay

Thank you for those, LT.  Yes, I think I've seen them before, but always of interest.

 

From memory, the RM frontispiece picture was taken from a similar elevated vantage point to the one I'd linked in the Disused Stations site, showing a sizable train crossing the quay, after having emerged from "the hole in the wall".

 

There's a personal stake for me in this too.  Long before I arrived on the scene, my great grandmother had one of the houses in that parade - her husband (my great grandfather, obviously) had died in service as a Station Inspector at Yarmouth Vauxhall in 1926, and I think the property was inherited as a railway benefit.  Family mythology has it that she ran it as a boarding house until one of her lodgers "cleaned her out" via an investment scam.