plumbing advice isolating valve

[colin penfold]

Hi all

 

Does anybody have a good knowledge of in line isolating valves.

 

I have found these fitted to my recently installed kitchen sink

 

I can't shift the bu@@ers. The slot is too shallow and wide for a screwdriver. I managed eventually to shift the cold with a 2p coin in a pair of pliers, but the hot won't budge. Guess which tap i need to work on????

 

Looking at the valves i wonder if there should be a tap or handle attached as they have a threaded hole in the slot. Does anyone recognise these?

 

Obviously i could turn the house water off at the mains to get the job done but that will leave the problem for another time. Before i replace the entire valve can anybody suggest anything about these ones?

 

Thanks all

 

[chris p bacon]

Turn off the house and replace them, they are speedfit valves and I've found them a bit cheap and nasty.

 

A cheap replacement is these

http://www.screwfix.com/p/isolating-valve-15mm-10-pack/32802

 

But I use these everywhere (although I get ones with a handle/tab from plumb centre)

http://www.screwfix.com/p/full-bore-isolating-valve-15mm/46860

 

The reason I use these is they are a 'Full bore' and so don't restrict the supply.

 

If like me you're hard water area no tap or valve lasts forever as they get gummed up and won't turn.

[chris p bacon]

Actually taking a second look, they aren't non return valves by chance. Not unusual to find them under a sink if it was an old fashioned mixer tap.

[colin penfold]

Thanks Dave that's pretty much what I thought id end up doing. If you have had to turn one of these off did you find a method that works? They seem designed not to work with a screwdriver:(

[skipepsi]

Not unusual to find them under a sink if it was an old fashioned mixer tap.

 

 

Eee I remember when they were the latest fashion for kitchens.....

[colin penfold]

Sorry we crossed. They are attached to a modern mixer tap. I did get one of them to do a quarter turn eventually just not the one i needed to! There's no other valve on either pipe - if they were non-return presumably there would be an isolator too?

[chris p bacon]

Sorry we crossed. They are attached to a modern mixer tap. I did get one of them to do a quarter turn eventually just not the one i needed to! There's no other valve on either pipe - if they were non-return presumably there would be an isolator too?

Yes there would be an isolator and a non return valve if these had been fitted in the past to an old style mixer (where the cold & hot could mix and return up the opposite supply) 

 

Are you a hard water area ? That might explain why you can't turn them at all as they'll be caked in scale.  This is what it's like here and so I have marked on the calender to turn them all every 4 months, takes just 5 minutes to do.

As for a tool to turn them off....theses things are made to no standard apart from the bore size so it's screwdrivers, coins or my old favourite ...the tab on a Yale key (always in the pocket). Get as good as you can to replace them although if hard water it doesn't make much difference sometimes.

[colin penfold]

Yes Dave our water is as hard as it gets. It keeps going up to the local council estate picking fights with the water in there. Its so hard even Millwall supporters water gives it a wide berth.

 

Thanks for the tips i will try to get round and free the valves periodically as you suggest.

[jcm@gwr]

Couple of points to add here, firstly I agree with Dave, in as much as they

are Speedfit valves, but be aware that they are 1/4 turn in one direction

only, ie they do not turn either way like normal 1/4 turn valves (basically

a ball with a hole in the middle).

 

I also agree with the hard water situation and regular operation of all valves

is necessary to reduce the chance of seizing, but I've found that there is a

device that helps, an electronic scale inhibitor, it doesn't eliminate the scale

completely, but does improve things dramatically. They aren't too expensive,

you fit 'em and forget 'em, and they cost about £1:50 a year to run!

 

Finally, I've used the all plastic valves, they are 1/4 turn, have large plastic

knobs to turn and seem to be reliable (I've had some in my house for about

10 years now), there are at least 2 types (I think one is made by Speedfit &

the other by Poly-Pipe), never had one seize or leak.

[30801]

I've found that there is a

device that helps, an electronic scale inhibitor, it doesn't eliminate the scale

completely, but does improve things dramatically. They aren't too expensive,

you fit 'em and forget 'em, and they cost about £1:50 a year to run!

I always wondered whether those were snake oil or something useful.

Robert Dyas had them for £20 so I thought I'd try one.

 

Does nothing that I can detect.

[jcm@gwr]

I always wondered whether those were snake oil or something useful.

Robert Dyas had them for £20 so I thought I'd try one.

 

Does nothing that I can detect.

 

It all depends on the quality of the unit, cheap ones probably don't create

a powerful enough magnetic field, also how long you have had it fitted

and working.

 

I use/recommend the Liff Wrappa, as it's the only one I know of that has

an integrated transformer (instead of relying on a 'phone charger' plug,

which will be the first thing to fail).

 

I can only tell you about my own experiences (and those of my customers)

with these units:-

 

Firstly, my mother moved from Potters Bar to Hatfield, and then complained

about the taps spouts scaling up within 3 weeks, not long after fitting, the taps

only needed de-scaling after 3 months (and it was easier).

 

Secondly, I fitted one for a retired couple and within 3 days she had to halve the

amount of washing-up liquid/shampoo/shower gel used, because everything

started to 'foam' more (like soft water does).

 

Thirdly, a friend of mine (fellow club member), who works at my suppliers, did

an experiment, whereby he checked the inside of a hot water cylinder and then

fitted a de-scaler. 6 months later he drained it down and re-checked it, it had

dissolved at least 60% of the scale that was in there!

 

Finally, I've had one installed at my place for at least 10 years, we don't (or vey

rarely) de-scale anything, maybe the w/c pans every 6 months or so, but no

big deal there.

 

BTW, the Liff Wrappa is about £70 +vat, so I'm not surprised that yours hasn't

had a lot of effect!

Edited May 20, 2017 by jcm@gwr

[30801]

BTW, the Liff Wrappa is about £70 +vat, so I'm not surprised that yours hasn't

had a lot of effect!

Hmmm. Not seeing £70 worth of components in there...

[jcm@gwr]

Hmmm. Not seeing £70 worth of components in there...

 

And your point is?

 

I'm sure that there are lots of things you could strip down to

component parts and decide they aren't worth the price charged.

That could include most of the things that we buy for our hobby.

Also how do you cost some things, do you include the time for

the design, the thought process, etc.

 

I know that if you cost out everything in the process of making

Optrex (including the packaging) it should be sold for approx.

30p! (I used to work with someone who worked for them).

But, if it was put on the shelves at that price, it wouldn't sell,

as people wouldn't believe it would work at that price.

BTW, the Optrex factory had new battleship grade vinyl laid

annually to try and offset the massive profits, plus the staff

canteen was more like a 5* restaurant!

 

All I know is that the unit works, it makes a difference and

they are reliable (I've never had 1 fail yet), I've lost count of

the number I've fitted, with no complaints either.

 

Just remembered, I fitted one for the salesman I bought my

van from, he had asked me about salt based water softeners,

because his wife had a skin complaint. I talked him into trying

the Wrappa, and I promised him his money back if it didn't

work, 3 days later he told me that there was an improvement

in her condition, which has continued to improve since, that

was 4 1/2 years ago and he's still happy (and so is she).

 

So, you believe what you want, I know these things work, I

have no connection with the company, except as a satisfied

customer. You will always find someone on the web who likes

to criticise and put things/people down, I also understand that

some people don't believe we put a man on the moon, or the

911 attack was instigated by the U.S. government, despite

all the evidence.