Mk3 Pullmans toilet window

[GordonC]

I've been watching some DVDs of the WCML in late 1980s and I've noticed a number of the 1st class coaches where one toilet window on the left hand end as you look at the coach seems to be a single pane of opaque glass unlike the more common arrangement where its split into a top and bottom half.

 

I'm assuming that these were the Mk3 Pullman coaches.

 

Was there a reason for the single pane of glass? was there a different toilet arrangement inside at that end?

[Mark Saunders]

I've been watching some DVDs of the WCML in late 1980s and I've noticed a number of the 1st class coaches where one toilet window on the left hand end as you look at the coach seems to be a single pane of opaque glass unlike the more common arrangement where its split into a top and bottom half.

 

I'm assuming that these were the Mk3 Pullman coaches.

 

Was there a reason for the single pane of glass? was there a different toilet arrangement inside at that end?

 

Was this not like the east coast HST sets that had a destination blind in the toilet window?

 

Mark Saunders

[ChrisH-UK]

AFAIK the Mk3 Pullmans were only superficially different from Mk 3b FO. A very quick image search does find a few images of the single-piece window, all are Mk 3b and they are also modern pics. This is not at all conclusive due to the small number of images checked but it's possible it's a Mk 3b thing.

 

Here's a page about a specific Mk3b coach, formerly one of the named pullman coaches which includes a picture of its toilet with what looks like a standard 2-piece window from the inside http://www.125group.org.uk/our-fleet/11074-mk3b-tfo/#

Edited June 8, 2017 by ChrisH-UK

[mjkerr]

I've noticed a number of the 1st class coaches where one toilet window on the left hand end as you look at the coach seems to be a single pane of opaque glass unlike the more common arrangement where its split into a top and bottom half.

 

I'm assuming that these were the Mk3 Pullman coaches.

 

Was there a reason for the single pane of glass? was there a different toilet arrangement inside at that end?

From memory, all the Mark 3B FO coaches had the same window arrangement

The upper pane was opague to provide light to the toilet

The lower pane was solid to provide a panel for the destination label

 

The main identifying difference were the integrated tail lights, the same as the Mark 3A sleepers

 

The other difference on these coaches was the mobile phone aerial between the door and gangway above the data panel, where a BT public phone was fitted

Note though that not all were fitted

Edited June 8, 2017 by mjkerr

[GordonC]

From memory, all the Mark 3B FO coaches had the same window arrangement

The upper pane was opague to provide light to the toilet

The lower pane was solid to provide a panel for the destination label

 

The main identifying difference were the integrated tail lights, the same as the Mark 3A sleepers

 

The other difference on these coaches was the mobile phone aerial between the door and gangway above the data panel, where a BT public phone was fitted

Note though that not all were fitted

 

That was what I thought too, but watching the video there was quite a number which looked like a single pane of opaque or frosted glass as is found in the air-conditioned Mark 2def toilet windows, but they were always First Class and Mark 3 coaches (I'm not familiar enough with the differences to spot whether they were 3b on a moving target and wasn't looking out for the tail lights at the time).

 

see the example slightly to the right of centre

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/44232489@N02/7752605128/in/photolist-cP58pE-bUsL2E-bUsKQs-pwXMTR-ca7meY-rey2yF-qSgeW1-A4DZ3T-UyrPLK-cbJD8f-ebWDJE-P1vTfX-95EunY-VdGEPt-bm4H3g-dGmCKL-norzhe-pZjsQT-pmKwiX-qqR8U9-bUsLYJ-9xdYLP-atougW-ca7nmd-9vLTfc-atkQFn-bUsKLW-gJSsCJ-pofuKZ-dwyHEC-cXmvG9-qUtKRG-axigww-m1dHVo-rpsz2r-nuuHGm-dCwJAU-gMeKjU-bxQbEx-T9eT8c-ojLkF3-U9Wjny-bGThwa-qTWwx6-eS36SJ-qD9Zjm-Tbxi7v-rhorfz-dBeHd9-nhpLmi

[Natalie]

Hi

 

As mjkerr has already explained a number of Mk3b FOs had a BT payphone fitted. This was fitted in place of the luggage racks at one end only. The window in this area was a single pane of glass as GordonC has recalled. I think a small number of HST TFs were also similarly payphone fitted. Use was intended to be in Pullman and Executive sets- with usually one FO being a payphone fitted example.

 

The usual spotting books at the time listed which vehicles were fitted. Not all the vehicles branded as Pullmans were so fitted- as shown in the link above.

 

The Spring 1987 Edition (correct to 3rd January 1987- tenth edition) of  Platform 5's 'Coaching Stock Pocket Book' lists the following as payphone fitted:

 

11083- 11101 all Mk3b FOs with 11083- 11094 branded as Pullmans.

 

In addition to the integral tail lights Mk3b stock (FO and BFO) also had an HST-style square vent on the roof above the the end vestibules.

 

Hope the above if of some help.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Natalie

[woodenhead]

How the world has changed, fitting a BT payphone onto a train!

[stovepipe]

In addition to the integral tail lights Mk3b stock (FO and BFO) also had an HST-style square vent on the roof above the the end vestibules.

 

 

As seen here presumably?

11087 Bethnal Green 020914 by Dan Adkins, on Flickr

[GordonC]

Thanks guys, that'd make sense it was where a payphone was fitted so there would be no toilet on the other side and the glass was there for more light and also why there looked to be a limited number per train.