New Layout Idea- Swansea Victoria Themed. Huge Change of Plan!

[Fat Controller]

Swansea suffered more than most from WW2 bombing. Hence a lot of fairly grim 1950s/1960s buildings in the city centre.

 

Being right next to the docks, it is hardly surprising that Victoria sustained a lot of damage.

There are still some places where blitzed buildings (or rather the space they'd occupied) remain in Swansea. Castle Square ( https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Swansea/@51.6201479,-3.9434263,652m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x486e45555a4e97b1:0x3d77128e2fe7cb74!8m2!3d51.62144!4d-3.943646) is a poignant memorial to those who died in the three-night blitz, and is built on the site of the former Ben Evans department store, which had been razed to the ground. The docks took a pasting; the oil tanks at King's Dock set alight, and I remember my father (who was fire-watching twelve miles away) say the flames were clearly visible. South Dock, next to Victoria, fulfilled two major roles; it was home to Swansea's fleet of trawlers, and to the timber trade with Scandinavia and Canada.

[danstercivicman]

There are still some places where blitzed buildings (or rather the space they'd occupied) remain in Swansea. Castle Square ( https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Swansea/@51.6201479,-3.9434263,652m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x486e45555a4e97b1:0x3d77128e2fe7cb74!8m2!3d51.62144!4d-3.943646) is a poignant memorial to those who died in the three-night blitz, and is built on the site of the former Ben Evans department store, which had been razed to the ground. The docks took a pasting; the oil tanks at King's Dock set alight, and I remember my father (who was fire-watching twelve miles away) say the flames were clearly visible. South Dock, next to Victoria, fulfilled two major roles; it was home to Swansea's fleet of trawlers, and to the timber trade with Scandinavia and Canada.

 

 

Sobering stuff really.   We took my gran a few years ago to see where she was evacuated during the war.    She was evacuated to Castle Acre from Lowestoft which was very much a fishing and minesweeper base.  She can recall seeing the skies above Suffolk full of US planes!   

[danstercivicman]

I have been working over the suggestions and I think this will be the final plan.   

 

The goods will come into the reception road.   I have had to compress the layout further at the scenic break end (due to finding a tape measure and realising its not quite as big as I thought it was). 

 

I have also straightened the station out a tad.   Peco geometry is quite restrictive and I can see why ppl hand build track.  

 

The inbound goods is then shunted either to the coal road, the sidings on the station side of the Carriage Shed or to the Docks Branch.   This is done back onto the UP Main and across to the Docks or using the loops.  

Goods are then assembled and either leave from the Docks Branch of the Departure Road straight out onto the UP Main.

 

Passenger workings and parcels use the Station.  Stock pretty much comes in and goes out with the odd working being stabled in the carriage shed.   

 

Hope St will have to go as part of the changes but if this layout comes out as planned I think it will make for it.  I will re-use as much of Hope Street in the short term whilst I build the scratch built canopy!!!  

 

I looked at buying some Bachmann 16t minerals...£48 for three wagons???   That's ridiculous.  

 

Ideally I'd like more goods sidings but again the costs of the layout are going to be huge and the last thing I want to do is fill every inch with track!

 

I'm going to attempt a mock up of the station canopy idea later- the idea of using a jig is good.  I've also been looking at how to wire point motors so again I have an idea of what to expect.  I do hope the Shinohara point is insul frog!  Apparently alot of work is needed if its live frog :S 

 

 

[Fat Controller]

Here's a link to an aerial photo of South Dock, taken in 1923- https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/WPW008832 . Though Victoria is just out of shot to the right, the rather large carriage shed is clearly visible, as are the web of tracks between the L&NWR lines and the dock.

Another shot here ( https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/WAW043981 ) has Victoria to just left of the centre, looking fairly unimposing in comparison to the carriage sheds. The area to the right of Victoria gives some indication of the damage wrought during WW2; there are few houses standing.

This photo shows the relative position of the goods and carriage sheds; it was taken looking towards where the previous photo was taken:- https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/WPW006114

[danstercivicman]

Here's a link to an aerial photo of South Dock, taken in 1923- https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/WPW008832 . Though Victoria is just out of shot to the right, the rather large carriage shed is clearly visible, as are the web of tracks between the L&NWR lines and the dock.

Another shot here ( https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/WAW043981 ) has Victoria to just left of the centre, looking fairly unimposing in comparison to the carriage sheds. The area to the right of Victoria gives some indication of the damage wrought during WW2; there are few houses standing.

This photo shows the relative position of the goods and carriage sheds; it was taken looking towards where the previous photo was taken:- https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/WPW006114

Amazing shots! The carriage shed dwarfs the station! The station is also heavily curved-almost 90 degrees to the entry line with the dock high level clearly visible. The gas works and flour works are also prominent. Amazing! You can see the devestation.

 

I my last plan I straightend the station... it appears it would be more prototypical after a radius 4 curve!!!

 

Cheers, food for thought!

[br2975]

I looked at buying some Bachmann 16t minerals...£48 for three wagons???   That's ridiculous. 

 

What were you planning on buying at £16+ each ?

 

Some Ebay sellers offer them as low as £5-£6 each, but generally a tad more..

 

You could resort to Parkside / Cambrian kits, batch built.

Edited June 14, 2017 by br2975

[Liam]

What were you planning on buying at £16+ each ?

 

Some Ebay sellers offer them as low as £5-£6 each, but generally a tad more..

 

You could resort to Parkside / Cambrian kits, batch built.

Hatton's sell the non-weathered versions at £11 each, and I got one of the weathered versions for £14, so not as expensive as some of the brake vans.

[danstercivicman]

Cheers, at that price I will weather and add the loads to them myself.  Yeah, its the Hattons pre-order:  

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/182243/Bachmann_Branchline_37_237_16T_mineral_wagon_triple_pack_in_BR_grey_weathered_with_loads/StockDetail.aspx

 

I have found some better priced ones on Hattons

 

I have also been playing around with the plans after the photos-

 

It solves one problem but adds others...

 

Pros: 

 

1) Fits nicely into available space.

2) Reflects prototype

3) Has goods, carriage sidings and passenger operation

 

Cons:

 

1) Quite squashed at station end

2) Large reduction in goods, meaning the dock line will be used as a goods fiddle yard with freight being worked onto the UP then into the sidings?   Maybe more trip freights to the yard?  It loses the run round in the goods yard

3) Complex station curves- hard to model

 

Be grateful for your feedback.  I'm probably gonna take some time away from the plan now and come back to it after a rest..

[Richard_A]

Don't know if you've managed to get a copy of the red Dragon book, I've bought one today and it's a very very good book.

 

I'm amazed how much Swansea has changed, mostly for the better but at the loss of some pretty impressive railway and industrial infrastructure

[danstercivicman]

Don't know if you've managed to get a copy of the red Dragon book, I've bought one today and it's a very very good book.

 

I'm amazed how much Swansea has changed, mostly for the better but at the loss of some pretty impressive railway and industrial infrastructure

Sadly not it's £48 used on both Amazon and eBay! Must be a good book! Yes I came across this:

 

https://youtu.be/XNZZlClOnYU

 

Makes you realise what an industrial waste land it had become! Hopefully my model will capture some of that. It's very Black Country like except for the sea! We don't have any here!

 

I don't think there would be any fish traffic to Swansea Victoria either...

[Richard_A]

There is one on eBay for around £18 atm mate

[danstercivicman]

Cheers,

 

ATM I am all spent out

 

There is one on eBay for around £18 atm mate

[Fat Controller]

Sadly not it's £48 used on both Amazon and eBay! Must be a good book! Yes I came across this:

 

 

Makes you realise what an industrial waste land it had become! Hopefully my model will capture some of that. It's very Black Country like except for the sea! We don't have any here!

 

I don't think there would be any fish traffic to Swansea Victoria either...

Thanks for posting that; there was a shot of where my great-grandparents lived (up by those twin stone towers, which are much more recent than they look) and Landore Foundry, where my father worked for the last ten years of his working life, and where I worked over a couple of vacations. 

[danstercivicman]

It's amazing just how industrial it is! I had no idea!

 

How do you think the layout plan captures the prototype? I am concerned that the platforms are too curved but the more I look at the pics it appears to be an almost 90 degree curve. This is quite unusual as railways tend to be long and straight. Did they run out of land or is there some geography that forced the curve. The whole area seems rammed with tracks, the Mumbles railway on one side and the docks on the other. I'm hoping to suggest the dock railway as the bsckdvene.

[danstercivicman]

I said I would have a break but I came back to the plan this morning... :S

 

Looking at the photos again I think I have the curve ok but I think I massively over enhanced the platform length!!   I have re-drawn it today.  I will be building a small test board when the Shinohara arrives and then building up a mock station canopy.   That will allow me to test ideas

 

 

[simon47603]

I will follow this with interest. If you would like to get a feel of this stretch of the line. I would heartily recommend: Working with LMS STEAM, by H C H Burgess. He started as an Apprentice Fitter at Paxton Street Shed in 1932 and would return to the Shed as a Mechanical Foreman in 1946. It is well worth a read.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Those last two iterations of the plan look very good to me in terms of being a good representation of Victoria.

 

But will you be able to get to both sides of the baseboard? Unless you are a very unusual looking person, you can't reach across 4ft of baseboard.

[RJS1977]

The L&NWR, and subsequently the LMS, offered tickets to London (Euston) from Swansea; presumably, they didn't go out of their way to tell passengers how long it took.

 

Indeed, the first through train from London to Pembroke Dock went via Stafford, Crewe, Shrewsbury, then down the Central Wales line to Llandeilo and across to Carmarthen!

[danstercivicman]

Those last two iterations of the plan look very good to me in terms of being a good representation of Victoria.

 

But will you be able to get to both sides of the baseboard? Unless you are a very unusual looking person, you can't reach across 4ft of baseboard.

It's a good point, thankfully there is s crawl space at the rear and I should be able to access the back of the layout as required

Indeed, the first through train from London to Pembroke Dock went via Stafford, Crewe, Shrewsbury, then down the Central Wales line to Llandeilo and across to Carmarthen!

That would have been quite a trek!

I will follow this with interest. If you would like to get a feel of this stretch of the line. I would heartily recommend: Working with LMS STEAM, by H C H Burgess. He started as an Apprentice Fitter at Paxton Street Shed in 1932 and would return to the Shed as a Mechanical Foreman in 1946. It is well worth a read.

Thanks for the tip Another one to add to the list

[danstercivicman]

These arrived today.... The Central Wales book is excellent with lots of detail on the Station, timetables and pics.  It seems the longest train in the bock was six coaches long and there was even an overnight.  Goods appear to be shunted in the Station and onto the UP using pannier tanks...

 

The wiring book also arrived so I will need to get my head round that...

 

The Shinohara point arrived!!!!!!  It is very nice.  If only it had springs to set the route.   I am going to make a test board so I can test loco's over it and learn how to wire points...

 

Also I had my MRI scan today so I am now on the hospital system and hopefully will get mended

[RJS1977]

 

That would have been quite a trek!

 

 

 

At the time, the only way of doing it without break of gauge.

[danstercivicman]

At the time, the only way of doing it without break of gauge.

Yes of course! There were trans shipment yards as well weren't there were goods were moved over from broad to standard guage-wagon to wagon. I do like the yards where the narrow guage slate workings run alongside the big guage (std guage).

 

One thing I do apologise for is my lack of railway technical terms so a signal thingy is probably a signal like thingy!

Edited June 15, 2017 by danstercivicman

[Andrew P]

Hi Dan, just back from a short break and so will need a proper catch up later, Good luck with the Hospital mate.

[danstercivicman]

Looking at the resources and modelling this station/environs I think there is plants of scope for these additional Locos

 

57xx pannier tank

 

Super D

 

Fowler 2-6-4t

 

The longest train will be five coaches and I am surprised that there are no pics of Halls or Granges working the line.

 

I'm going to start planning the baseboards and measuring it all out. I think I will add some cut outs to facilitate access to the back and Aldi give an alternative viewing angle...

 

Loads to do!

[Prometheus]

Please do forgive the ruthless and mercenary highjacking of this topic but do remember that this year's Swansea model rail show is taking place on the site of Swansea Victoria on the 7th and 8th. October 2017. And Abbotswood will be there....

 

https://srmg.org.uk/2017-show/

 

Some excellent traders and other layouts, too.

 

Forgiven?

 

Tony