New Layout Idea- Swansea Victoria Themed. Huge Change of Plan!

[Happy Hippo]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It also looks like there were two sidings on the back of the station hemmed in by the high level lines... I'm struggling to find a point with the right geometry to facilitate this. The peco curved is too tight and the long radius too straight. The medium doesn't look good either :s

 

I know some people have an aversion to building track, but this is a prime example of when you need a hand built point.

 

Seriously you ought to have a go and build a point that fits into what you need.

 

After all if it all goes wrong, it's just a bit of time and a couple of lengths of rail you have wasted.

[danstercivicman]

I know some people have an aversion to building track, but this is a prime example of when you need a hand built point.

 

Seriously you ought to have a go and build a point that fits into what you need.

 

After all if it all goes wrong, it's just a bit of time and a couple of lengths of rail you have wasted.

Yeah I have no idea how to build one but there are a lot of rmwebers who do! Definitely there's two places on the layout where hand built is required.. the points at the far side of the station should be a gentle three way curved turnout...

 

The goods sidings above should have a gentle curved point.

 

I know they make em and p4 handbuilt track but I wouldn't think oo code 100 would be catered for as after all if your worried about gentle curves and prototypical points I'd be looking at em and handbuilt turnouts... . I would be happily corrected

Edited June 18, 2017 by danstercivicman

[Northroader]

One of Johnsters posts made me go back and do some digging for facts on the TPOs. I find the ones parked at Shrewsbury in the daytime had come from Aberystwyth, not off the Central Wales. Apologies for misleading you.

[Fat Controller]

Thank you both for info . The goods info is bery helpful- what is a tube wagon? Do you meN like a milk tanker or s five plank filled with silver barrels?

 

Goods will def be a big part of the layout in all the books and images I can see the sidings are full!

Herewith a link to a photo of a Tube:-

 http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brtube/h3543d1c2#h3543d1c2

some of those in beer traffic had extensions to side and ends to allow higher stacking:-

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brtube/h34598b99#h34598b99

[danstercivicman]

One of Johnsters posts made me go back and do some digging for facts on the TPOs. I find the ones parked at Shrewsbury in the daytime had come from Aberystwyth, not off the Central Wales. Apologies for misleading you.

No worries it will be BG's and vans of various makes for the parcels

[danstercivicman]

Herewith a link to a photo of a Tube:-

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brtube/h3543d1c2#h3543d1c2

some of those in beer traffic had extensions to side and ends to allow higher stacking:-

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brtube/h34598b99#h34598b99

 

Awesome

[Penlan]

One of Johnsters posts made me go back and do some digging for facts on the TPOs. I find the ones parked at Shrewsbury in the daytime had come from Aberystwyth, not off the Central Wales. Apologies for misleading you.

It happens to us all...

Sometimes the digging around to check a statement leads to all sorts of new information,

or 'where the hell have I seen that before?', followed by fruitless searches.

[Penlan]

I'm sure you don't need any diversions re. Swansea Victoria, but if the area signalling is of any interest,

you may find this a brief distraction:-

 

https://signalbox.org/branches/bw/centralwales.htm

 

I've had this printed out for a while,

when I looked at the date on my copy - 10/09/01, Uhmn, that's been filed away some time.

I'm actually looking for something else...... and no! I haven't found it, yet.

See my previous post, #132.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Penlan

[danstercivicman]

Hello,

 

Yeah I had seen that before it's very interesting, I assume a signal box being 'locked out' means that the frame is off and allows locos to pass to the next box?

[The Johnster]

Tube wagons are not tubular, but opens originally designed for carrying steel tubes.  They are long wheelbase (16' IIRC) open goods wagons with 5-plank bodies, and by BR days mostly vacuum fitted and 'XP' rated.  They came in LNER and BR types.  Baccy are doing a BR version, out early next year, or so they claim!  They were used for carrying beer barrels, and the return empties, as mentioned previously, but I am not sure when this practice started and am not going to stick my head over the parapet to say that it was going on during your modelled period.

 

Of course, they should really carry toothpaste...

Edited June 19, 2017 by The Johnster

[timbowilts]

Don't forget the GWR versions, the Open C 

 

Tim T

[Penlan]

Don't forget the GWR versions, the Open C 

That strikes a chord... 

[Prometheus]

That strikes a chord... 

 It should! Ratio, decades back, made a kit for it with a truly shocking chassis!

 

Tony

[Fat Controller]

Tube wagons are not tubular, but opens originally designed for carrying steel tubes.  They are long wheelbase (16' IIRC) open goods wagons with 5-plank bodies, and by BR days mostly vacuum fitted and 'XP' rated.  They came in LNER and BR types.  Baccy are doing a BR version, out early next year, or so they claim!  They were used for carrying beer barrels, and the return empties, as mentioned previously, but I am not sure when this practice started and am not going to stick my head over the parapet to say that it was going on during your modelled period.

 

Of course, they should really carry toothpaste...

There was an LMS version, with corrugated ends, from which the BR one was derived. Parkside do a nice kit of the BR, which can built as a fitted or unfitted version, whilst Bachmann have already issued the fitted version (including a very nicely weathered example). I'm not sure when their use on beer traffic started; they were certainly present at Hafod Yard, Swansea by 1965 or so.

They were often used to carry large packing cases, both of things like vehicle parts for export (see the 'Southampton Docks' thread on here), and of 'materiel for the MoD (mainly for the Navy).

Prior to the introduction of the Tubes in beer traffic from Burton, Shock Highs and Vans were the preferred vehicles; both types are in the Parkside and Bachmann ranges.

[danstercivicman]

Nice info... more to add to my buying list....!!!! Oh dear

[danstercivicman]

Would this one be ok?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131848663290

[Liam]

I should think so, provided it's filled with beer barrels. No one's going to analyse the running number and say that that particular wagon was in fact sent to the ER, are they?

 

Speaking of beer, the next time you're drinking some Hobgoblin or Hobsons or Bathams, you could try pouring some into a small shot glass, getting a pipette and dropping a drop or two on to the wagon to exemplify the smell of beer and the occasional spilt barrel. Everyone that sees your railway will love it!

[danstercivicman]

I should think so, provided it's filled with beer barrels. No one's going to analyse the running number and say that that particular wagon was in fact sent to the ER, are they?

 

Speaking of beer, the next time you're drinking some Hobgoblin or Hobsons or Bathams, you could try pouring some into a small shot glass, getting a pipette and dropping a drop or two on to the wagon to exemplify the smell of beer and the occasional spilt barrel. Everyone that sees your railway will love it!

Cracking idea! I'll have to re work a figure to be having a swig I haven't done much planning today, far to hot to do a lot. Should know where I am with NHS land on Thursday too which will be good

[Happy Hippo]

Yeah I have no idea how to build one but there are a lot of rmwebers who do! Definitely there's two places on the layout where hand built is required.. the points at the far side of the station should be a gentle three way curved turnout...

 

The goods sidings above should have a gentle curved point.

 

I know they make em and p4 handbuilt track but I wouldn't think oo code 100 would be catered for as after all if your worried about gentle curves and prototypical points I'd be looking at em and handbuilt turnouts... . I would be happily corrected

You can make a turnout with copper clad sleepering and soldered construction in Code 100, as easily as you can in code 75.

 

Marcway( http://www.marcway.net) are still offering hand made turnouts in Code 100 fb rail

 

I have to admit I thought you were starting this project from scratch and would be using code 75 and the new Peco bullhead rail which I saw for the first time last week, and it looks much better that the standard flat bottomed offerings.

[danstercivicman]

You can make a turnout with copper clad sleepering and soldered construction in Code 100, as easily as you can in code 75.

 

Marcway( http://www.marcway.net) are still offering hand made turnouts in Code 100 fb rail

 

I have to admit I thought you were starting this project from scratch and would be using code 75 and the new Peco bullhead rail which I saw for the first time last week, and it looks much better that the standard flat bottomed offerings.

I'll look into those points, code 75 does look great esp the bulkhead code 75 but I've seen the issues Andy had with his and I'm gonna stick with what I know works

 

I will be air brushing and weathering the track and I can live with the rail height for the reliability of code 100.

 

I've got some eBay's coming !

[Andrew P]

I'll look into those points, code 75 does look great esp the bulkhead code 75 but I've seen the issues Andy had with his and I'm gonna stick with what I know works

 

I will be air brushing and weathering the track and I can live with the rail height for the reliability of code 100.

 

I've got some eBay's coming !

Morning Dan, many many MANY people have had good results with both std Code 75 and the Bull Head, maybe it was just me, but I went back to Code 100 for reliability more than anything else, and as you say, once weathered it will be more than exceptable.

 

All the best for tomorrow mate.

[Zomboid]

There's no wrong answer when it comes to track, but since you've bought those shinohara scissors, I'd recommend matching whatever those are (if they're 82/83 best in mind that peco also offer a range of code 83, which I can personally vouch for).

[danstercivicman]

Cheers

 

I'm hoping for some good news!

 

I think I will stay code 100, it's worked very well for me so far and I can rob points off my minories... I've got the code 100 Shinohara and it's very nice! I've also got spare code 100 flex track ready for when I start.

 

Going to take some pics of Birmingham Hope St's new arrival (class 25) later !

[clecklewyke]

 

Goods will def be a big part of the layout in all the books and images I can see the sidings are full!

 

I also want goods to be a major part of Bradford North Western but I decided that a goods yard appropriate to a city, even at a secondary terminus, would be far too large to accommodate. Coal staithes, goods warehouses ("sheds" is too small a word  ) cranes etc. take up too much space for the area we have available.. I think they will not fit in and will look more like a small village's yard.

 

What city stations do have is lots of sidings on which to store stock and to sort stock. So I have laid a small set of parallel sidings which is intended to represent a (very!) small sorting yard. They are linked to goods arrival and departure roads so the sequence is:

 

a long distance goods train arrives,

 

the train loco uncouples and goes to shed,

 

a shunting pilot couples up, draws the train onto the headshunt and sorts the wagons into the appropriate sidings for outgoing trains to local yards which are not modelled. Each siding will hold the train for a particular local yard

 

The trains having been made up, small goods locos arrive and pick up their trains and take them to their distinations (which are all represented by the fiddle yard).

 

So there is a constant ebb and flow of main line and local goods trains, in a small area.

 

To give the whole thing purpose you need some way of dictating the destination of each wagon. I use map pins with coloured heads, inserted random;y into holes in the wagon roofs, tarpaulins etc. This is a bit unsightly (Ron complained about the "balloons" above each wagon), but my eyesight is so poor I need something easily visible. There are alternatives, such as cards or even the computerised wagon sorting systems used by our transatlantic friends. Peter Denny simply painted a co;oured spot where the way bill would be on the wagon solebar. When the train was turned on the train-length turntable which made he uses as a fiddle yard a different coloured spot would appear. 

 

So I have three sidings, one for Bridge Street yard (black pins), one for Scargill Sidings (white pins) and one for Hammerton Street yard (GN) (red pins). I'd like more but even with such a small yard it can take half an hour to shunt an incoming train - enough for us to dedicate one operator to the task.

 

I hope that helps. If you really want goods warehouses etc., they can be painted on the backscene or modelled in low relief - they make good view lockers at the fiddle yard entry - but whatever you do make them BIG! City warehouses, especially on the LNWR, were superb structures, well worth modelling. Think of Huddersfield, Oldham etc. 

 

Keep posting!

 

Ian

Edited June 20, 2017 by clecklewyke

[The Johnster]

Your working of your sorting yard is just about spot on, Ian, you could almost be describing Penarth Curve North, or Briton Ferry.  The pilot might do some of the shorter trips.  These sorts of yards featured in many larger towns and smaller ciites, especially where land was too scarce or expensive to build the main goods transhipment yard in the centre where the station went.  In Cardiff, which I am quoting because I live here and know it, none of the pre-grouping companies that served it had a goods yard adjacent to their main passenger station; the GW had Canton sidings which, while visible from their station, were not a place you'd relish the walk to on a wet day, and their main facilities were at Davis Street, with household coal dealt with on the up side at Pengam.  The Taff Vale had facilities at Salisbury Road, a good distance north of Queen Street station, and the Rhymney had theirs at Knox Road, better known nowadays for being where the prison is located, well to the south of their terminus at Crockherbtown; the Cardiff Railway used this as their goods depot as well.  

 

A feature of the big South Wales coastal towns were storage siding for the massive coal traffic, which were, in addition to their obvious function of storing loaded coal wagons until space could be found for them on the docks, used for shunting coal from different collieries with different burning characteristics such as sulphur, methane or carbon content, friability etc, so that individual ships could be loaded with the correct mixture for, say, Bilbao steelworks or Aden ship bunkering station, whatever the customer had specified in the order.  This led to what looked to an observer such as 6 year old Johnster watching the action at Crwys Sidings on the Rhymney like utterly pointless and meaningless shuffling of identical wagons with apparently identical coal in them; this activity was mostly carried out to the east of the town in the case of Swansea.  In Cardiff, similar storage sidings were found at Tidal and Marhalling  north east of the docks fed by the TV's Roath Branch and from the GW at Pengam Jc., Senghenydd Road on the TV, and as the coal traffic increased, something it appeared to be doing exponentially before the Great War, more were built increasingly further out, Cherry Orchard and Aber Junction on the Rhymney, Roath Junction and of course the expansions at Radyr on the Taff Vale, Rogerstone in the Ebbw Valley, Dyffryn at Port Talbot, and new sidings at Llantrisant.  Even Stormstown, between Abercynon and Pontypridd on the TV, was used for this purpose.  At Swansea, appropriate to the OP's railway, they could be found in an almost continuous run from Jersey Marine through Burrows and Danygraig, Crymlyn, and Port Tennant onto the docks.  Wagons of export coal could not be accommodated and hence were not accepted on the various docks until the ship had berthed and was ready to load them, and the speed of loading was limited, especially in the case of Cardiff Docks, by the inability of the hydraulic supply to the loading tippers hoists to cope with the demand, with all hoists on 4 separate docks working flat out 24/7.  One of Barry's boasts was that it had sufficient reserve hydraulic power from it's pumping stations to cope with continuous loading at all it's hoists and operate lock gates and other equipment as well; the older ports, Newport, Cardiff, and Swansea all built new docks to compete and handle the traffic, but were always playing catch up with loading speeds after Barry opened.  The Barry Railway built massive storage at Cadoxton on both sides of the present station, and was always able to cope with wagons close at hand to fill ships as soon as they berthed.  Shipowners favoured faster turnarounds in ports because it saved on port fees; a ship is more economically viable when it is at sea under way.  And it's crew, always a problem, got into less trouble...