RMweb Gold russ p Posted August 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2017 Larpool isn't that tight there is a tighter 25mph curve between Sleights and the site of Eskdale mines box but not as tight as Grosmont. The curve at Battersby is also tight being only 20mph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 My purpose in taking those 5 comparative 6" maps is that those curves were the most quoted mainline curves in the thread. And of those the Northam curve on the approach to S'hampton Central is surely the most intensively traversed. The old Cromford & High Peak (I am proud to say because our Scout hut was at the bottom of the Shallcross incline) had an extraordinarily tight curve just beyond Parsley Hay i.e. beyond the 'mainline' section that the LNW used for running Euston expresses via Uttoxeter and Stafford to compete with the Midland from Buxton ! According to my measurements Gotham curve was 2.3 chains ! My bet is that most curves RMwebbers nominate are 10 chainers. Someone mentioned tight curves off the Warrington-Preston section of the LNW. Interestingly I've just looked at the old Grand Junction curves at Earlestown onto the L&M. And guess what? Joseph Locke was the Engineer for both the LSWR line to Southampton and for the Grand Junction (LNWR) connection between the L&M and the London and Birmingham. So his Manchester curve at Earlstown is also 7.5 chains, the same as Northam ! It has stopped raining now; I'd better go back outside and face the Real world :-( dh 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D854_Tiger Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 How do some of these curves compare with the radius normally used for points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Wear valley junction on what is now the Weardale railway also has a very tight curve. Think the limit over that is 5mph, but thats partly due to crossing too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted August 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2017 How do some of these curves compare with the radius normally used for points. A chain is 66 feet, and a 4mm scalea 2' radius Peco Streamline turnout at 152 scale feet radius equals about 2.5 chains, a lot tighter than the curves quoted at Earlestown and Northam. These would need to modelled at around 6 and a half feet radius to be in scale, a point to consider when you are reading about the 'massive errors' of the Oxford Dean Goods. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wollastonblue Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 The curve at Stourbridge Junction towards Birmingham is 15mph, and there's always plenty of flange squealing to be heard from my grandmothers. I always thought that was really sharp for a mainline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted August 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2017 The curve at Stourbridge Junction towards Birmingham is 15mph, and there's always plenty of flange squealing to be heard from my grandmothers. I always thought that was really sharp for a mainline. Have you tried oiling your grandmother? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Originally the "mainline" was the route straight on to Dudley, wasn't it? Hence the curve, as it was a branch line in effect... How times change! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Have you tried oiling your grandmother? But wouldn't you need to oil both grandmothers ? dh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2017 Thinking about Pacers and curves I guess thinking about where they have been banned, like on the Cornish branches, might be a good guide as to severe curves. Or were they banned from Cornwll because of the sheer number of curves rather than the curves being of tight radius. My understanding was that the issue in Cornwall was a combination of curves and gradients. Pacers (or Skippers as the 142s were called down West) can apparently cope with one or the other but not both together. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 My understanding was that the issue in Cornwall was a combination of curves and gradients. Pacers (or Skippers as the 142s were called down West) can apparently cope with one or the other but not both together. John I recall nothing about gradients only excessive wheel wear due to the curves, not helped by monoblock wheel sets! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted August 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2017 I recall nothing about gradients only excessive wheel wear due to the curves, not helped by monoblock wheel sets! Mark Saunders My memory is that there was a braking issue with the Skippers and jokes about the unfortunate accidental choice of name. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 The Skipper name seems to fit with the hard 'crash bang' ride we still have to endure in the NE much better than Pacer. dh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 My memory is that there was a braking issue with the Skippers and jokes about the unfortunate accidental choice of name. No the braking issue was nothing to do with curves it was the Cable Brakes that were the problem but that was changed on all the 14X fleet to the current Direct Acting Brakes which are on them today! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted August 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2017 No the braking issue was nothing to do with curves it was the Cable Brakes that were the problem but that was changed on all the 14X fleet to the current Direct Acting Brakes which are on them today! Mark Saunders Thanks for update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) I recall nothing about gradients only excessive wheel wear due to the curves, not helped by monoblock wheel sets! Mark Saunders It wasn't unknown for them to slip to a stand going up hill on the steeper curves due to weight transference off the driven wheels. I remember coming up from Falmouth one wet day and thinking the journey would never end! John Edited August 2, 2017 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I have a memory of reading in a (possibly unreliable) history that the eastern approach through Sutton Bridge station on the M&GN mainline was the tightest curve on a British mainline, until most M&GN services were ended in the late 1950s. But I have the memory of a fruit fly so may well have misremembered. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 My memory is that there was a braking issue with the Skippers and jokes about the unfortunate accidental choice of name. Why were they called Skippers in the south west and not just Pacers like everywhere else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted August 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2017 Local marketing. The 'Pacer' name was to go with the 150/152 'Sprinter', and when the 4 wheel horrors were first introduced in the South West there were no Sprinters for them to go with, so a different name could be used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) I have a memory of reading in a (possibly unreliable) history that the eastern approach through Sutton Bridge station on the M&GN mainline was the tightest curve on a British mainline, ... Doing a PrtScr of the Side by Side National Library of Scotland map of Sutton Bridge the M&GN station curve is to the west of the bridge I make it to be a reverse curve of 8.5 chains radius. Edited August 2, 2017 by runs as required Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spannerman Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Not a main line but I believe the curve before Reedham bridge on the Norwich lowestoft line is quite tight. It certainly sounds that way from the tortured squeeling flanges. Nik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Doing a PrtScr of the Side by Side National Library of Scotland map of Sutton Bridge the M&GN station curve is to the west of the bridge I make it to be a reverse curve of 8.5 chains radius. sutton bridge.jpg Please let me into your secret of how you define the centre-line of the tightest section of a transition curve ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Leaving Oldham Mumps for Rochdale, I've actual stuck on the curve leaving the platform, rain tight curve with check rail, 142 on curved platform from a standing start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DIW Posted August 3, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 3, 2017 On the London Underground Central Line, the Caxton curve between Shepherd's Bush and White City (westbound) is indicated as 200ft radius (3 chains). With a peak-time service intensity approaching 30 trains per hour every weekday, that's hardly a branch line! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I would like to add this one to the debate at Gateshead next to the Sage. Check rails on all four routes. Mike Wiltshire 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now