Anyone Interested in Ships

[MarkC]

3 hours ago, Axlebox said:

Tetra Ethyl Lead? 

Your old mate Porsee Miane turns out to be the world authority on the stuff... 

Wow. Great find!

 

The compound we used to ship came from the US Gulf and we discharged it at Ellesmere Port, presumably for onward transport by rail to Amlwych. It was definitely used as an anti-knock additive in leaded petrol.

 

I didn't think that Saltburn would have dealings with such things - one learns something new every day. What say you, Porcy? Some more info would be well received, I think.

 

Mark

[Axlebox]

12 minutes ago, MarkC said:

Wow. Great find!

 

The compound we used to ship came from the US Gulf and we discharged it at Ellesmere Port, presumably for onward transport by rail to Amlwych. It was definitely used as an anti-knock additive in leaded petrol.

 

I didn't think that Saltburn would have dealings with such things - one learns something new every day. What say you, Porcy? Some more info would be well received, I think.

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark

Its a scan from a BR official appendix and the chapter before was all about changes to signalboxes (alphabetically?) with Saltburn as the last entry...

 

If there is a NE connection Uncle Poursea will know!

 

Duncan

[MarkC]

8 minutes ago, Axlebox said:

 

Hi Mark

Its a scan from a BR official appendix and the chapter before was all about changes to signalboxes (alphabetically?) with Saltburn as the last entry...

 

If there is a NE connection Uncle Poursea will know!

 

Duncan

Ah, OK Duncan.

 

Thanks for that. Given the nasties that go through the Tees petrochems complexes, I wonder if we did produce our own at one time?

 

Mark

[Porcy Mane]

17 hours ago, MarkC said:

I wonder if we did produce our own at one time?

 

Certainly no expert but a mate did work at Octel (later Innospec) Ellesmere Port and he was well looked after once the "stuff" got to him. As a nipper I was introduced to the shunting horse that used to sort out the quays at Hayle just before retirement. The UK was a leading producer of  TEL and used to export word wide.

There are a good few threads on RM web about TEL. Here's a start:

Brief history on the Ellesmere port facility here:

 

http://www.octelamlwch.co.uk/ellesmere-port/

 

One thing I have never found out is the name of the ship carrying drummed TEL that sank in the Med.

[Fat Controller]

18 hours ago, MarkC said:

Ah, OK Duncan.

 

Thanks for that. Given the nasties that go through the Tees petrochems complexes, I wonder if we did produce our own at one time?

 

Mark

It would be inbound from Merseyside; I have seen pictures of solitary wagons in a train of petroluem tanks. The train-ferry used to carry TEL, and many other nasties; I remember watching it dock one day, and discharge a selection of wagons that included phosphorus and sodium in rail tanks, a wagon of spent fuel for Sellafield and several other tanks that I couldn't identify.

[jwealleans]

Looking at photos of the train ferries (as i spent a great deal of time doing a few years ago), you could be forgiven for thinking that they transported nothing but tankers.  Eventually the penny dropped that the nasty stuff was always parked in the open air and where it could go over the back in a hurry if necessary.

[MarkC]

14 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Looking at photos of the train ferries (as i spent a great deal of time doing a few years ago), you could be forgiven for thinking that they transported nothing but tankers.  Eventually the penny dropped that the nasty stuff was always parked in the open air and where it could go over the back in a hurry if necessary.

It used to be the practice on container ships to load the nasties at the outboard slots on deck for the same reason, but I suspect that this practice is not followed as much these days

 

Mark

[admiles]

3 hours ago, MarkC said:

It used to be the practice on container ships to load the nasties at the outboard slots on deck for the same reason, but I suspect that this practice is not followed as much these days

 

Mark

 

Current thinking is to avoid outboard cells as I'm sure you're aware, containers do have a habit of falling off when stowed above the deck hatches.

[jjb1970]

The big safety problem in containers isn't dangerous cargo, it is misdeclared cargo. The difference between dangerous cargo and non-dangerous cargo is not as clear cut as people might think. The stuff subject to DG rarely causes issues, recent high profile incidents indicate a real problem with non-DG cargo not properly declared. 

[Bon Accord]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

The big safety problem in containers isn't dangerous cargo, it is misdeclared cargo. The difference between dangerous cargo and non-dangerous cargo is not as clear cut as people might think. The stuff subject to DG rarely causes issues, recent high profile incidents indicate a real problem with non-DG cargo not properly declared. 

 

Mis-declaration or should I really say absolute falsification of both content and weight was a huge ongoing problem for many years and in many respects still is.

You're not permitted to stow Class 1 (bangs) in outboard stacks, as I recall this was not so much because of the risk of losing the stuff over the side but more a case of the risk should you have a collision.

Having spent some time working for the MOD, they used to get their knickers in a real twist about any and all forms of Class 1 handling. I remember once discharging a single 20' container of Class 1 in Southampton with all the precautions in place - wharfside evacuated, red flags everywhere, fire brigade on standby nearby, fire hoses rigged and charged everywhere etc. Trouble was the class 1 nature of it's cargo was a pallet of self heating meals, similar to the kind you can buy in camping shops. Most of us can understand the consequences of a cargo of cluster bombs going bang, but given the greatest risk at that time seemed to be exploding Tikka Massala and baked beans we did think everyone got rather excited for no reason.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Bon Accord said:

 

Mis-declaration or should I really say absolute falsification of both content and weight was a huge ongoing problem for many years and in many respects still is.

You're not permitted to stow Class 1 (bangs) in outboard stacks, as I recall this was not so much because of the risk of losing the stuff over the side but more a case of the risk should you have a collision.

Having spent some time working for the MOD, they used to get their knickers in a real twist about any and all forms of Class 1 handling. I remember once discharging a single 20' container of Class 1 in Southampton with all the precautions in place - wharfside evacuated, red flags everywhere, fire brigade on standby nearby, fire hoses rigged and charged everywhere etc. Trouble was the class 1 nature of it's cargo was a pallet of self heating meals, similar to the kind you can buy in camping shops. Most of us can understand the consequences of a cargo of cluster bombs going bang, but given the greatest risk at that time seemed to be exploding Tikka Massala and baked beans we did think everyone got rather excited for no reason.

I had a similar experience in a railway context. A derailed van in a yard was labelled as Military Explosives. We all retreated to a safe place while the Army had a look. After a few minutes they waved us over to see what the load was - one single box of 7.62mm rifle ammunition.

[MarkC]

It's 38 years since I served in a container ship - and back then it was rare to lose boxes overboard. Probably something to do with proper securing being performed - but that's another story...

 

The point about collisions is of course a good one - but I do remember us carrying some nasties on one voyage - the Mate was VERY insistent that we all knew about this container, and that if anyone was going forward then they were to use the other side of the main deck, or through the box girder passageway. The details are lost in the mists of time, but one topic of conversation was indeed about how it could be <ahem> 'disposed of' if necessary...

 

Mark

[JeremyC]

I served my cadetship in the early 1970s with Denholms of Glasgow. At the time they had four container ships the Euroliner, Eurofreighter, Asialiner and Asiafreighter owned by a company called Seatrain under management. During one voyage various members of the crew on the Asiafreighter began to fall ill. Eventually the cause was traced to leakage from some cylinders of Arsine gas in one of the containers. Apparently while the cylinders were correctly marked it appears the container they were in hadn't been properly labeled and the gas may not have been declared on the copy of the cargo manifest carried onboard.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pCkprha8oIAC&pg=PA570&lpg=PA570&dq=Asiafreighter+arsine+gas+container+ship&source=bl&ots=Yi6zbRa1KP&sig=ACfU3U0FkRmoT5QjNbE7FkEl2WXwOnlIfQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwitxKWXhf3kAhXToXEKHZdlBhwQ6AEwDnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Asiafreighter arsine gas container ship&f=false

[Porcy Mane]

6 hours ago, MarkC said:

The details are lost in the mists of time, but one topic of conversation was indeed about how it could be <ahem> 'disposed of' if necessary...

 Quite amazing what us Brits "disposed" of in places like The Hurd Deep, Beaufots Dyke & the Bay of Biscay. Nearer to home the rusty skull & cross bone danger signs still exist up on Bowes Moor.

Loads of this stuff was dumped years before the magical migratory powers of stored plutonium was known about.

[jjb1970]

More from our best and brightest:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/shipping-pollution-sea-open-loop-scrubber-carbon-dioxide-environment-a9123181.html

 

Apparently a scrubber which is installed in accordance with IMO guidelines as allowed by MARPOL Annex VI regulation 4 and with compliance verified by continuous emissions monitoring or by continuous parameter monitoring and emission spot checks and with continuous monitoring of wash water discharge at all times and with the system having been approved by the ships Administration is a "cheat device".

 

The article is wrong and factually incorrect on so many levels it is beyond being a joke, another example of journalists just writing whatever they're spoon fed.

[MarkC]

2 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

More from our best and brightest:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/shipping-pollution-sea-open-loop-scrubber-carbon-dioxide-environment-a9123181.html

 

Apparently a scrubber which is installed in accordance with IMO guidelines as allowed by MARPOL Annex VI regulation 4 and with compliance verified by continuous emissions monitoring or by continuous parameter monitoring and emission spot checks and with continuous monitoring of wash water discharge at all times and with the system having been approved by the ships Administration is a "cheat device".

 

The article is wrong and factually incorrect on so many levels it is beyond being a joke, another example of journalists just writing whatever they're spoon fed.

Well, it is the Cindy...

 

Mind you, for hyperbole, the Sunday Post was probably right up there, when reporting the breakaway from the jetty of the "Havkong" at Braefoot Bay during a <wee blow>, back in early 1993. (Several mooring lines chad been left on 'self-tensioning' in error, so she came off the jetty, other lines then parted; finally the remainder of the lines broke as well and off she went, with the Engineers trying to get the main engine started in a hurry...  She passed close to "Teviot", which had completed loading some 8200 cubic metres of Ethylene but was waiting for the gale to pass before departing. According to the reporter, had the two ships collided, "Teviot" would have exploded with the force of several Hiroshima-sized nukes...

 

Mark

Edited October 2, 2019 by MarkC

[Porcy Mane]

5 minutes ago, MarkC said:

Mind you, for hyperbole, the Sunday Post was probably right up there,

 

You bet.

 

Nowt to do with ships but sometime around 1974 the back page of the Tyneside edition had the customary Sunday report on the Sunderland game at Roker Park. It explained how Bryan "Pop" Robson when just outside of the 18 yard box, let off a red hot sh1t that flew just over the crossbar!

 

Me granny nearly fell out of her rocking chair.

 

P

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

You bet.

 

Nowt to do with ships but sometime around 1974 the back page of the Tyneside edition had the customary Sunday report on the Sunderland game at Roker Park. It explained how Bryan "Pop" Robson when just outside of the 18 yard box, let off a red hot sh1t that flew just over the crossbar!

 

Me granny nearly fell out of her rocking chair.

 

P

Totally off-topic, but many years ago the Leeds Student newspaper, reporting on a University rugby match, should have said "Leeds scored after some first-rate rucking".

[jwealleans]

11 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

Bryan "Pop" Robson when just outside of the 18 yard box, let off a red hot sh1t that flew just over the crossbar!

 

Is that how he acquired his nickname?

[Porcy Mane]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

 

Is that how he acquired his nickname?

 

Dunno. I'll ask him next time I see him.

[NorthBrit]

Back to the topic!

 

P & O    cruise ship Arcadia in Cadiz  22nd August 2019

 

Costa Diadema in Palma  20th August 2019

 

 

 

[NorthBrit]

P  & O   cruise ship Ventura in La Palma,  Canary Isles

 

 

TUI  cruise ship  Mein Schiff 4   arriving in Dubai.  Feb  2019

 

 

 

Princess  Cruises   'Pacific Princess at the Port of Tyne  23rd Sept  2019 

 

 

[NorthBrit]

Holland America Line  cruise ship  Veendam in Malaga  24th August 2019

 

 

 

 

Next month I will be eastbound to the UAE.  Roll on.

Edited October 7, 2019 by NorthBrit
More info added

[MarkC]

NCL are in the brown and smelly - in more ways than one...

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/news/cruise-passengers-revolt-norwegian-voyage-cancelled-stops/

 

 Quite apart from the itinerary going horribly wrong (and autumn in the North Atlantic & North Sea is not a good time to go cruising and expect no problems with weather...) - blocked toilets after only 3 days at sea? Sounds more like some person or persons have disposed of material other than the "3 P's" (Pee, Pooh, (toilet) Paper) down the cludgie and blocked the small bore pipes that are the soil pipes on the vacuum toilets. If the retention tanks were full, the ship could discharge treated sewage overboard after the treatment plant; it's pretty much pure water after the treatment unit. In any case, normal practice is to empty the retention tanks after leaving port and proceeding on passage, only using the holding tanks in port.

 

Hey ho...

 

Mark

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, MarkC said:

NCL are in the brown and smelly - in more ways than one...

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/news/cruise-passengers-revolt-norwegian-voyage-cancelled-stops/

 

 Quite apart from the itinerary going horribly wrong (and autumn in the North Atlantic & North Sea is not a good time to go cruising and expect no problems with weather...) - blocked toilets after only 3 days at sea? Sounds more like some person or persons have disposed of material other than the "3 P's" (Pee, Pooh, (toilet) Paper) down the cludgie and blocked the small bore pipes that are the soil pipes on the vacuum toilets. If the retention tanks were full, the ship could discharge treated sewage overboard after the treatment plant; it's pretty much pure water after the treatment unit. In any case, normal practice is to empty the retention tanks after leaving port and proceeding on passage, only using the holding tanks in port.

 

Hey ho...

 

Mark

According to one source on the 'net the ship is in any case due a major overhaul this coming winter before redeploying for the Far East market next year.   The sewage backing up does sound a bit odd in such a short time.   I did find one press report hilarious as it said that passengers were complaining 'because they'd had to endure three days at sea'.  Makes you wonder why they booked on a ship that was originally planned to go to Iceland, particularly at this time of year?