Anyone Interested in Ships

[62613]

19 hours ago, steve W said:

Cruise ships are a complex rebuild when extra sections are added, but easier for cargo ships/ tankers etc. which have been subjected to this type of treatment for decades.  The infamous Torrey Canyon started at 60,000Tons  and ended up at 150,000 after being enlarged. Texaco used to have some ex T2 type vessels that were lengthened. The centre castle was cut off and plopped back on the engineers accomodation to give an all-aft ship and this at least avoided the recabling/piping of the affected services along the main deck.

 

 

Other T2s were stretched as well, to increase deadweight. Esso, and several other US-based tanker companies, also retained several well into the 1970s. One of the most drastic ship alterations surely has to be the rebuilding of Royal Mail Line's Aragon into one of the world's first car carriers in the early 1970s

[steve W]

7 hours ago, 62613 said:

Other T2s were stretched as well, to increase deadweight. Esso, and several other US-based tanker companies, also retained several well into the 1970s. One of the most drastic ship alterations surely has to be the rebuilding of Royal Mail Line's Aragon into one of the world's first car carriers in the early 1970s

You can do anything with a ship if you use (enough of) the 'blue glue'!

 

True, they were not all successful unfortunately, but 'jumboising' did keep a lot of vessels going long after their engineers wished they wern't and the owners reaped the profits. 

Conversions for other uses are many. The one that comes to mind was the Shell vessel 'Methane Pioneer'. Built in WW2 as a cargo ship and later converted to the world's first bulk LNG tanker.

Tankers to livestock carriers are too many, but passenger ships to livestock carriers are rarer. The 'Cunard Ambassador' met that fate, I saw and smelt it in Fremantle in 1977. Horrible.

Steve W.

[62613]

11 hours ago, steve W said:

You can do anything with a ship if you use (enough of) the 'blue glue'!

 

True, they were not all successful unfortunately, but 'jumboising' did keep a lot of vessels going long after their engineers wished they wern't and the owners reaped the profits. 

Conversions for other uses are many. The one that comes to mind was the Shell vessel 'Methane Pioneer'. Built in WW2 as a cargo ship and later converted to the world's first bulk LNG tanker.

Tankers to livestock carriers are too many, but passenger ships to livestock carriers are rarer. The 'Cunard Ambassador' met that fate, I saw and smelt it in Fremantle in 1977. Horrible.

Steve W.

I saw, but didn't smell Blue Flue's Centaur in the same place at various times between 1974 and 1978

 

[jjb1970]

Who wants to spot the rather significant inaccuracy in these two articles covering the same story:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/04/drug-bust-on-ship-nets-13-tonnes-of-heroin

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/heroin-found-container-ship-felixstowe-rotterdam-a9090927.html

 

[Phil Traxson]

On 26/08/2019 at 18:10, steve W said:

Cruise ships are a complex rebuild when extra sections are added, but easier for cargo ships/ tankers etc. which have been subjected to this type of treatment for decades.  The infamous Torrey Canyon started at 60,000Tons  and ended up at 150,000 after being enlarged. Texaco used to have some ex T2 type vessels that were lengthened. The centre castle was cut off and plopped back on the engineers accomodation to give an all-aft ship and this at least avoided the recabling/piping of the affected services along the main deck.

 

 

This has been going on for some time for merchant vessels, whilst working as a BP tankers engineer apprentice in Smiths Dock at North Shields in 1966 they added a centre section to Booker Venture, an ore carrier ISTR.

   Unfortunately I left BP by mutual consent whilst there due to a brain meltdown, aiming too high I couldn't cope with the academic side of the training, but well remember the practical stuff I learned whilst in the shipyard even now. 

 

Phil T.

[The Stationmaster]

Now for something (almost) completely different.  Yesterday my daughter and I visited the Solent University training facility as part of a party from one of the maritime societies.  This is the 'new' alternative to the old training centre at Warsash which is now largely being turned into building land although one or two course such as fire fighting as are, so I understand, still carrying on there.   The new centre within the Solent Uni complex is based around one of the best simulator suites in Europe along with various classroom training facilities also heavily simulator oriented - apart from the classroom facilities there are six simulators arranged as ship's bridges and 3 'engine rooms'.

 

We began our visit in the room used for oil & gas carrier training with the various screens showing a number of the different scenarios which are used for simulator exercises - 6 students at a time in this case.  Here are some of the scenarios they use -

 

 

 

The one we saw in action was of an oil tanker which was in the process of developing a couple of leaks - failure to deal with a deck level leak resulted in a fire which then had to be dealt with.  The instructor sits in a separate room monitoring the actions of the students as various problems arise and he can either make thing simpler or much worse depending on how an initial problem is dealt with, the students are also recorded on CCTV to assist with post exercise analysis of theor reactions and behaviour.

 

 

We were able to see one of the bridge simulators which wasn't in use for a course and the sea was a bit on the choppy side.   Very realistic with a wide view from the bridge windows and most of us began reacting to the motion we were 'feeling' through the floor - despite the fact that it wasn't moving at all

 

All the displays and controls are as they would be in the real world - and work in the same way -

 

And of course the weather turned nasty -

 

And we found we were on a collision course with another vessel

 

But fortunately our alteration of course and the other vessel finally noticing us and altering course meant all was well

 

Although fog descended with the arrival of daylight

 

Then it was off to the 'engine room' starting with the main switchboard

 

 

Followed by a visit to the machinery space.  Rather cramped for space down there of course but fortunately the noise and heat effects were no turned on and no problems occurred, except us trying to navigate the screen.  The engine rooms (three) are behind heavy sound proof doors and can get very realistic for noise and temperature.
 

 

Then it was back to 'our' bridge where, in nice weather' one of our number was to be the Captain of a Brittany Ferry leaving Portsmouth while my daughter took the helm.  Now as our 'Captain' was a former RN navif gating specialist who had taken HMS Ocean in and out of Pompey things were clearly going to be pretty professional, even with my daughter who has never steered anything larger than 30 foot yacht, on the helm.

 

 

And we could go and watch it all on the instructor's monitoring screens - no nasties were added this time

 

 

The final bit of fun for my daughter was tring to load a container onto a container ship.

 

All in all a very interesting visit and well worth seeing if you get the chance.  And the best of luck to any regulars on this thread who happen to pay a professional visit to the facility   (One recent Chief got himself into an ever worsening situation by micro-managing the two ETOs dealing with the first problem to arise - he then had everything thrown at him in succession finishing up with a major fire in the engine room.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

16 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Now for something (almost) completely different.  Yesterday my daughter and I visited the Solent University training facility as part of a party from one of the maritime societies.  This is the 'new' alternative to the old training centre at Warsash which is now largely being turned into building land although one or two course such as fire fighting as are, so I understand, still carrying on there.   The new centre within the Solent Uni complex is based around one of the best simulator suites in Europe along with various classroom training facilities also heavily simulator oriented - apart from the classroom facilities there are six simulators arranged as ship's bridges and 3 'engine rooms'.

 

We began our visit in the room used for oil & gas carrier training with the various screens showing a number of the different scenarios which are used for simulator exercises - 6 students at a time in this case.  Here are some of the scenarios they use -

 

 

 

The one we saw in action was of an oil tanker which was in the process of developing a couple of leaks - failure to deal with a deck level leak resulted in a fire which then had to be dealt with.  The instructor sits in a separate room monitoring the actions of the students as various problems arise and he can either make thing simpler or much worse depending on how an initial problem is dealt with, the students are also recorded on CCTV to assist with post exercise analysis of theor reactions and behaviour.

 

 

We were able to see one of the bridge simulators which wasn't in use for a course and the sea was a bit on the choppy side.   Very realistic with a wide view from the bridge windows and most of us began reacting to the motion we were 'feeling' through the floor - despite the fact that it wasn't moving at all

 

All the displays and controls are as they would be in the real world - and work in the same way -

 

And of course the weather turned nasty -

 

And we found we were on a collision course with another vessel

 

But fortunately our alteration of course and the other vessel finally noticing us and altering course meant all was well

 

Although fog descended with the arrival of daylight

 

Then it was off to the 'engine room' starting with the main switchboard

 

 

Followed by a visit to the machinery space.  Rather cramped for space down there of course but fortunately the noise and heat effects were no turned on and no problems occurred, except us trying to navigate the screen.  The engine rooms (three) are behind heavy sound proof doors and can get very realistic for noise and temperature.
 

 

Then it was back to 'our' bridge where, in nice weather' one of our number was to be the Captain of a Brittany Ferry leaving Portsmouth while my daughter took the helm.  Now as our 'Captain' was a former RN navif gating specialist who had taken HMS Ocean in and out of Pompey things were clearly going to be pretty professional, even with my daughter who has never steered anything larger than 30 foot yacht, on the helm.

 

 

And we could go and watch it all on the instructor's monitoring screens - no nasties were added this time

 

 

The final bit of fun for my daughter was tring to load a container onto a container ship.

 

All in all a very interesting visit and well worth seeing if you get the chance.  And the best of luck to any regulars on this thread who happen to pay a professional visit to the facility   (One recent Chief got himself into an ever worsening situation by micro-managing the two ETOs dealing with the first problem to arise - he then had everything thrown at him in succession finishing up with a major fire in the engine room.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very nice Mike. Slightly OT, have you ever had a go on a full-motion train simulator? A few years ago, during acceptance testing of one such, I became the first (and possibly only) person to drive a Waratah EMU across the Sydney Harbour Bridge at 180 km/h - in a blizzard.

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Very nice Mike. Slightly OT, have you ever had a go on a full-motion train simulator? A few years ago, during acceptance testing of one such, I became the first (and possibly only) person to drive a Waratah EMU across the Sydney Harbour Bridge at 180 km/h - in a blizzard.

Only train simulator I have been anywhere near the controls was on the Eurostar 373 simulator when my son was 'driving' (and collided with another set when supposedly carrying out emergency coupling in the Chunnel).  That simulator also had some weather effects designed to mimic the real route although I'm not sure about snow.  And it wasn't full motion either so didn't feel entirely like being in the cab on the real thing at full belt on the LGV Nord.

[pH]

A selection of BC Ferries vessels taken on recent trips from Tsawwassen to Saltspring Island and from Nanaimo to West Vancouver:

 

Tsawwassen terminal with 'Queen of Alberni' docked and 'Queen of New Westminster' leaving for Swartz Bay:

 

'Spirit of Vancouver Island' off Village Bay terminal, Mayne Island:

 

'Queen of Cumberland' at Village Bay terminal, Mayne Island:

 

'Spirit of British Columbia' off Village Bay terminal, Mayne Island:

 

'Queen of New Westminster' off Village Bay terminal, Mayne Island. This boat was in the first picture above, and had been to Swartz Bay, unloaded, reloaded and was on the way back to Tsawwassen:

 

'Queen of Oak Bay' off Gibsons en route to Nanaimo from West Vancouver:

[Kingzance]

6 hours ago, pH said:

A selection of BC Ferries vessels taken on recent trips from Tsawwassen to Saltspring Island and from Nanaimo to West Vancouver:

 

Tsawwassen terminal with 'Queen of Alberni' docked and 'Queen of New Westminster' leaving for Swartz Bay:

 

'Spirit of Vancouver Island' off Village Bay terminal, Mayne Island:

 

'Queen of Cumberland' at Village Bay terminal, Mayne Island:

 

'Spirit of British Columbia' off Village Bay terminal, Mayne Island:

 

'Queen of New Westminster' off Village Bay terminal, Mayne Island. This boat was in the first picture above, and had been to Swartz Bay, unloaded, reloaded and was on the way back to Tsawwassen:

 

'Queen of Oak Bay' off Gibsons en route to Nanaimo from West Vancouver:

There’s some spectacular scenery to accompany the trip from mainland to the island, did it ten years ago!

[steve W]

13 hours ago, pH said:

A selection of BC Ferries vessels taken on recent trips from Tsawwassen to Saltspring Island and from Nanaimo to West Vancouver:

.......

 

What good timing. I'm off to Vancouver for the first time in three weeks, now looking forward to the trip even more.

Steve W

[The Stationmaster]

Back to the Isle of wight and its various anchorages and passing shipping.

 

The much clearer morning also revealed a nicer view of the gas tanker ' Joan' - one of an at times seemingly endless  class of small gas tankers carrying female names -

 

St Helens Roads is obviously a favourite spot for small tankers waiting orders as the 'Mona Swan' was also anchored there

 

As was the 'Caroline A'

 

We then left for some buoy work as there was a suitable lull in the wind and while there we were passed by Brittany Ferries 'Baie De Seine'

 

And the container ship 'Madrid Express' inward bound after picking up her Pilot off the Nab Tower and waiting the 'Baie De Seine' to clear

 

When the buoy work was finished we headed for Sandown Roads passing one of our previous friends which was already in the anchorage there and obviously waiting orders

 

The next morning the weather offered a chance to deal with a buoy alongside one of the main channels so a bit more shipping variety starting the self loading container ship  'Mimi Schulte' complete with Pilot boat trying hard to get alongside to take off the Pilot

 

Then yet another vehicle carrier, 'Gygnus Leader', inbound for Southampton

 

Unfortunately we were anchored well inside the bay at Sandown and the weather was getting murky yet again so no opportunities for ship photography until on Monday we headed south west towards The Needles being passed on the way by yet another self loading container ship - 'Independent Vision', with a remarkably uniform load of containers -

 

However the Needles area was not to be as we were diverted to Eastbourne so turned round and headed back up the Channel passing yet another vehicle carrier on the way - one of Grimaldi's vessels seen here getting on for a mile away.   We know a lady who did a cargo ship voyage on one of these and if nothing else the menu was at least uniform for her entire trip - pasta, pasta, or pasta

 

Next day we were out to the Greenwich Light Vessel

 

But although we were right in the middle of the TSS there we as nothing close enough to get any photos until we were heading back to Eastbourne when yet another of those female tankers passed us.  In fact two of them sailing together passed us heading down Channel but only 'Elisabeth' was close enough for a decent photo opportunity - the last one of this voyage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

And the Greenwich Light Vessel visit did give a chance to get some pictures of our own ship although a small boat in the middle of the English Channel is not the most ideal of photography platforms when the sea is a bit choppy.

 

[Ozexpatriate]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Then yet another vehicle carrier, 'Gygnus Leader', inbound for Southampton

Big news of another loss of stability incident of an RoRo vehicle carrier off the coast of Georgia (US). The attitude of the vessel is very similar to MV Cougar Ace when it had it's loss of stability incident, though the Golden Ray now appears to be at an angle of fully 90°. Of course many press reports call it "capsized", which to me means upside down, rather than on it's side.

 

It is amazing how stable and buoyant the RoRo carriers are on their sides.

 

The last of the four remaining trapped crew members was rescued yesterday from the Golden Ray. He had been behind glass in an engineering space. for something like 50 hours. The Golden Ray is operated by Hyundai Glovis logistics. So I presume there are a lot of Hyundai vehicles on board. I wonder if they will be treated the same way as the Mazdas on the Cougar Ace.

[MarkC]

My new office, 10 weeks on, 10 weeks off, for the next couple of years. Just joined her at Pori, Finland.

 

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:267155/mmsi:246272000/vessel:CORAL ANTHELIA

[The Stationmaster]

21 minutes ago, MarkC said:

My new office, 10 weeks on, 10 weeks off, for the next couple of years. Just joined her at Pori, Finland.

 

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:267155/mmsi:246272000/vessel:CORAL ANTHELIA

Can you help yourself to some of the cargo if you run low on fuel?  (nah, not a serious question but the dual fuel element could no doubt be interesting - any extra qualification needed for that?)

[MarkC]

8 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Can you help yourself to some of the cargo if you run low on fuel?  (nah, not a serious question but the dual fuel element could no doubt be interesting - any extra qualification needed for that?)

Actually, we do burn boil-off cargo vapour when carrying LNG, Mike - as have all LNG carriers since shipping LNG by sea was introduced, more than 50 years ago. The only difference these days is that we can burn it in diesel engines, not as fuel for steam powered ships.

 

This is, of course, different to the two other LNG powered ships that I have sailed on; they had LNG bunker tanks. This ship doesn't,  so if we aren't carrying LNG then we have to run on Low Sulphur Gas Oil.

 

Regarding extra certification for non-gas carrier ships using LNG, you may be horrified to hear that as yet this is not a requirement, although engine builders do offer training courses for the engines, and it would be a foolish owner who didn't send his senior Engineers at least on such things, but as for storage and handling, not yet. I fear that it will take an incident (or worse) before a formal STCW requirement appears. Having spoken to colleagues on one of our other LNG carriers, equipped, like us on here with the facility to bunker LNG powered ferries and cruise ships, there have been several 'near misses' already...

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, MarkC said:

Actually, we do burn boil-off cargo vapour when carrying LNG, Mike - as have all LNG carriers since shipping LNG by sea was introduced, more than 50 years ago. The only difference these days is that we can burn it in diesel engines, not as fuel for steam powered ships.

 

This is, of course, different to the two other LNG powered ships that I have sailed on; they had LNG bunker tanks. This ship doesn't,  so if we aren't carrying LNG then we have to run on Low Sulphur Gas Oil.

 

Regarding extra certification for non-gas carrier ships using LNG, you may be horrified to hear that as yet this is not a requirement, although engine builders do offer training courses for the engines, and it would be a foolish owner who didn't send his senior Engineers at least on such things, but as for storage and handling, not yet. I fear that it will take an incident (or worse) before a formal STCW requirement appears. Having spoken to colleagues on one of our other LNG carriers, equipped, like us on here with the facility to bunker LNG powered ferries and cruise ships, there have been several 'near misses' already...

Thanks for that.

 

I asked about the training for LNG powered vessels when we were down at Solent Uni last week as the chap who showed us round is their oil and gas cargo expert and does the cargo/handling procedural and safety training and competence assessment.  He didn't have much idea about any training for LNG powered vessels although they are apparently looking at establishing a course for deck officers which is likely to be a of two days duration if there is any demand for it (he was not an engineer so didn't know about that side of any training).

[Fat Controller]

A little query, which someone on here may be able to answer, We've just got back from a week in Portland (Dorset); whilst there, we found a spot near the Verne prison, which afforded excellent views over the 'working' part of the harbour. For much of the week, there were what looked like two modern RFA vessels, moored at the quayside, as well as what looked like a 1950s 'oiler' moored further out. Does anyone have any gen on these vessels? I couldn't make out the names or pennant numbers from where we were.

Thanks in advance

Brian

[figworthy]

3 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

A little query, which someone on here may be able to answer, We've just got back from a week in Portland (Dorset); whilst there, we found a spot near the Verne prison, which afforded excellent views over the 'working' part of the harbour. For much of the week, there were what looked like two modern RFA vessels, moored at the quayside, as well as what looked like a 1950s 'oiler' moored further out. Does anyone have any gen on these vessels? I couldn't make out the names or pennant numbers from where we were.

Thanks in advance

Brian

 

I think the old one is Sir Tristram, and seems to be a permanent resident.

 

Not helpful retrospectively, but AIS can be a useful tool for working out what ships are in the locality.

 

Adrian

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, figworthy said:

 

I think the old one is Sir Tristram, and seems to be a permanent resident.

 

Not helpful retrospectively, but AIS can be a useful tool for working out what ships are in the locality.

 

Adrian

Thanks, Adrian; I think they all had AIS turned off, as i couldn't find them on the site I often look at for that.

[jjb1970]

On ‎11‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 07:52, MarkC said:

Actually, we do burn boil-off cargo vapour when carrying LNG, Mike - as have all LNG carriers since shipping LNG by sea was introduced, more than 50 years ago. The only difference these days is that we can burn it in diesel engines, not as fuel for steam powered ships.

 

This is, of course, different to the two other LNG powered ships that I have sailed on; they had LNG bunker tanks. This ship doesn't,  so if we aren't carrying LNG then we have to run on Low Sulphur Gas Oil.

 

Regarding extra certification for non-gas carrier ships using LNG, you may be horrified to hear that as yet this is not a requirement, although engine builders do offer training courses for the engines, and it would be a foolish owner who didn't send his senior Engineers at least on such things, but as for storage and handling, not yet. I fear that it will take an incident (or worse) before a formal STCW requirement appears. Having spoken to colleagues on one of our other LNG carriers, equipped, like us on here with the facility to bunker LNG powered ferries and cruise ships, there have been several 'near misses' already...

 

Safety is old fashioned thinking, we're savingtrees now and if that means killing people we all have to get with the program 

 

Seriously, seafarers (or indeed, human beings) from a slightly older era would be shocked by the lack of interest in marine safety nowadays as it is all about trying to get gold stars from St. Greta of Thunberg.

[jjb1970]

Talking about safety at sea and bonkersness, this caught my eye:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/16/rnli-donations-surge-tory-criticism-work-overseas-lifeboat-charity

 

Take the rather obvious ethical issue out of the room for a moment (personally I think it is pretty screwed up to object to using 2% of donations to save lives overseas anyway), what sort of idiot decides they're not going to give anything to the 98% of RNLI funding that saves British people (although it might be handy to invent some sort of system that allows them to identify foreigners in British waters so they know who to allow to drown) because they object to 2% going to save frightful coloured chaps in countries they couldn't identify on a map?

 

If people want to object about anything it should be an objection to the idiots who end up risking the lives of RNLI crews by needing to be rescued as a result of their own idiocy (ditto for idiots that go for a walk up Mount Snowdon in December clad in nought more than Bermuda shorts and flip flops, guided by a copy of the Sun and with a case of beer to sustain themselves).

 

This may be slightly political, but it is both shameful to read a story like this and also uplifting to know more people see it for what it is than decide to boycott a national treasure like the RNLI.

[JeremyC]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

 

Safety is old fashioned thinking, we're savingtrees now and if that means killing people we all have to get with the program 

 

Seriously, seafarers (or indeed, human beings) from a slightly older era would be shocked by the lack of interest in marine safety nowadays as it is all about trying to get gold stars from St. Greta of Thunberg.

I'm sorry JJB, but that is one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read, even more so coming from someone whose posts are unusually on the mark.

I was at sea for 44 years, from 1972 to 2016, and the improvements in the safety culture onboard ships in that period were massive, I find it despicable to belittle those achievements just for a cheap jibe.

MarkC has a valid point regarding certification for LNG fueled ships, but these sort of requirements have always lagged behind the real world developments. How many years had high voltage propulsion drives been used on ships before the introduction of the certification restrictions / requirements a few years ago?

Edited September 19, 2019 by JeremyC

[MarkC]

Trouble is, you get lunatics like this one

 

http://heiwaco.tripod.com/index.html

 

going on about safety, and it makes a mockery of all we are trying to achieve. (I've posted the link before, of course...)

 

I still maintain that Gas Carriers are the safest ships afloat, but it's down to our efforts in making sure that new staff become as careful as we old seadogs...

 

Mark