9F detailing

[Bernie333]

Does anyone know what this bit does on the real loco? See attached - the yellow bit

 

thanks

 

B

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

That's the rod to the regulator valve. Notice that it is split on an equalising beam mid way, so that dimensional changes due to heating are cancelled out (mostly).

Edited August 4, 2017 by 34theletterbetweenB&D

[Mick Boyd]

Does anyone know what this bit does on the real loco? See attached - the yellow bit

 

thanks

 

B

Hi Bernie,

 

It's the regulator rod from the cab connecting to the valve in the dome.

 

Cheers, Mick.

[Bernie333]

Thank you. It's jolly fiddly to make!

 

The picture is part of the instructions for the Seven Models Crosti 9F.  It's only the second loco I've built - the first was a DJH Ivatt. Both have been an absolute pleasure to make - I've made mistakes (and the kit designers have made mistakes) but it's all been part of the challenge.  I'm not planning to build a railway, but this and a Radio 4 accompaniment provide great satisfaction. 

 

B

Edited August 4, 2017 by Bernie333

[delticfan]

I got this kit a couple of years ago, I think it's brilliant I love all the ugly pipework and fittings. I have started cleaning all the parts up ready for soldering and replaced the pre heater etch with a brass tube. Have you used any of the ragstone castings?

[Bernie333]

I'm using whatever appears to be the right thing. I'm currently part way through the pipework, and it's quite difficult to work out which bit is which.  For instance I seem to have two copies of the valve stuff on the top of the firebox, one in brass and one in white metal.  I've spent ages turning various valve bits around trying to work out what they are for. Also there's a selection of white metal pipework which doesn't seem to match what's needed, so I'm making it up in brass. The instructions are very good up to this point, then it gets a bit hazy on the pipework.

 

The good thing with 41312 was that I could go down to the Watercress Line and photograph the thing. Photos of unmodified Crostis are few, and not terribly close up. I took a load of photos of Evening Star, but that's not quite the same. 

 

I intend the final look to be as neglected and filthy as they were in reality, so probably whatever I do will be lost in the mess.

 

B 

[daifly]

I presume that you've seen this build thread?

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/1094-jazz-7mm-workbench/?p=1327097

Dave

[john new]

If you can get a photo of a specific loco work from that. Although slightly off topic, but still related to a BR standard class, I was amazed recently on checking my photos to note how the pipe runs on the two preserved Brits differ. The pipe in question is the big angled one under/just forward of the Rh/side cab; I think a main water feed pipe connecting to the injectors. Quite different on Britannia & Oliver Cromwell.

Edited August 5, 2017 by john new

[84B Oxley]

 

 

I intend the final look to be as neglected and filthy as they were in reality, so probably whatever I do will be lost in the mess.

 

B 

A bit like this?

 

Photographed on the Preston O Gauge Group layout.

 

Jeff

[Brian_G]

If you can get a photo of a specific loco work from that. Although slightly off topic, but still related to a BR standard class, I was amazed recently on checking my photos to note how the pipe runs on the two preserved Brits differ. The pipe in question is the big angled one under/just forward of the Rh/side cab; I think a main water feed pipe connecting to the injectors. Quite different on Britannia & Oliver Cromwell.

The 'big angled pipe' on the rh side is the exhaust feed from the smokebox to the exhaust steam injector. The pipe work around this injector is complicated as this injector can also be used as a live steam injector in addition to the normal live steam injector on the lh side. I believe that as different classes of injectors were used on various BR standards that can also explain the detail differences in pipework.

[delticfan]

Thanks for all this inspiration! I never thought of putting the pickups on the tender and I like the cable connection to the loco, very neat. What with all the expensive ready to run 9fs around I think the Severn ones are excellent value, maybe a little extra work required but for me that's half the fun.

[Bernie333]

I presume that you've seen this build thread?

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/1094-jazz-7mm-workbench/?p=1327097

Dave

No, I hadn't. The search facility on this site leaves much to be desired, as I've typed in "Crosti" lots of times and haven't found anything very useful.

 

Having read the thread now, mostly what I take away is that he's incredibly more experienced than me. I'm always amazed at how experienced people can be so neat with soldering etc. Mine is a patchwork mess, though it really won't matter once it's painted and very distressed. One small fault stands out, mainly because I spent hours trying to make it go away. The big fat pipes either side of the smoke box all blend into one shape on the original, and on the model are made up from curved pieces of brass and a white metal casting.  Making them blend together on the model took me an awful lot of shaping and filling.

 

Also the boiler bands are massively over-scale. I look at mine and keep wondering if I'm up to taking them off and trying again.

 

I met Dave Ennis at Reading before I bought the model - his enthusiasm and abilities are impressive.

 

B

[N15class]

Use scotch magic tape at the painting stage for boiler bands much easier to fit and can be lined if needed before fitting. Any metal band will look over scale.

[Bernie333]

Thanks for that. The question is, can I face taking them all off?

 

B

[delticfan]

I wish there was a diagram naming all the valves or parts by name so I know what ragstone castings to get.

[Brian_G]

I wish there was a diagram naming all the valves or parts by name so I know what ragstone castings to get.

When you say 'valves or parts' do you mean those that go to make up the motion /valve gear? If you don't know what the components are called I'll see if I can upload a drawing for you. For other parts (e.g. injectors) Ragstone has some photos of BR Standard castings with part numbers. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Brian_G

[Brian_G]

I managed to get my scanner working. This is taken from "Handbook for Railway Steam Locomotive Enginemen" published in 1957 by the British Transport Commission and was used for training drivers and firemen on all the technical aspects of steam operation. This is typical valve gear for BR Standards such as the 9F (Standard 4 tank has different slide bars)

Edited August 16, 2017 by Brian_G

[delticfan]

Sorry for being vague but I grew up with diesels! Thank you for the diagram, very useful! Other items of interest are live steam injectors and the like. I think if you know what the items do it helps. I have the Book of the 9f's and have tried to understand what makes the original Crostis work, I find all that pipework fascinating and want to do the model justice with some nice castings.

[Brian_G]

Sorry for being vague but I grew up with diesels! Thank you for the diagram, very useful! Other items of interest are live steam injectors and the like. I think if you know what the items do it helps. I have the Book of the 9f's and have tried to understand what makes the original Crostis work, I find all that pipework fascinating and want to do the model justice with some nice castings.

As you know the injectors, used for replenishing the boiler water, come in two types. On the left hand (driver's) side is the live steam injector; on the fireman's side is the exhaust steam injector, which uses exhaust steam from the blast pipe to make the injector work and improve efficiency by saving steam. This injector can also work with live steam if required, so the pipe work around it is more complex.

 

I don't have the Book of the 9F's (and am not well up on the Crosti versions) but it should tell you which type of injectors they use (e.g. type J, type J/K or type K) so if you know this I'm sure Ragstone can tell which are the correct castings from his range if you drop him an email. Alternatively, let me know and I can identify them from the complete diagrams in the Engineman's Book. If you have any particular questions on pipe runs not covered in the 9F book then I can possibly look at the 9F, no. 92240, at the Bluebell Railway where I'm a member, although it's not a Crosti of course.

[delticfan]

Thank you for the information again, I think an email to Ragstone is in order it might save a bit of time I'm sure he has been asked the same questions before. Thanks for the offer of inspecting the real thing but I'm lucky that I do some work at the NRM and have access to Evening Star, had my head in the frames more than a few times!

[Johng]

As you know the injectors, used for replenishing the boiler water, come in two types. On the left hand (driver's) side is the live steam injector; on the fireman's side is the exhaust steam injector, which uses exhaust steam from the blast pipe to make the injector work and improve efficiency by saving steam. This injector can also work with live steam if required, so the pipe work around it is more complex.

 

I don't have the Book of the 9F's (and am not well up on the Crosti versions) but it should tell you which type of injectors they use (e.g. type J, type J/K or type K) so if you know this I'm sure Ragstone can tell which are the correct castings from his range if you drop him an email. Alternatively, let me know and I can identify them from the complete diagrams in the Engineman's Book. If you have any particular questions on pipe runs not covered in the 9F book then I can possibly look at the 9F, no. 92240, at the Bluebell Railway where I'm a member, although it's not a Crosti of course.

Brian,

 

You are right, well almost, for clarity, the injectors and water valves on the 9's are both on the firemans side (right hand facing the front), live steam feed from the manifold on the firebox top in front of the cab, your description of the action of the exhaust injector is spot on and the largest pipe in the selection under the cab feeding the low pressure exhaust side of the injector and an automatic shuttle to live steam on closure of the regulator.

 

Good stuff,  John.

[Brian_G]

Brian,

 

You are right, well almost, for clarity, the injectors and water valves on the 9's are both on the firemans side (right hand facing the front), live steam feed from the manifold on the firebox top in front of the cab, your description of the action of the exhaust injector is spot on and the largest pipe in the selection under the cab feeding the low pressure exhaust side of the injector and an automatic shuttle to live steam on closure of the regulator.

 

Good stuff,  John.

OK John, ya got me! It was an assumption on my part as I'd not looked closely at a Standard cab layout for a while. (As I model the LMS I'm steeped in Stanier Black 5's and Jubilee cab layouts, where, in common with other locos of that era, the live steam injector and its controls is on the left - but it does make more sense to have both on the same side though).

[Bernie333]

I've stopped detailing the body for a while ("The pipes, the pipes!" - or was it the "The bells, the bells!")  Anyway, I've started on the tender chassis. For some strange reason, I have a part (38) - see picture yellow bit - which is modelled in a different scale to the rest.

 

 

Having taken it out of the etch, it seems to be far too small for its purpose.  Not wide enough, not high enough, and not like the diagram.  

 

Does anyone have a picture of a Seven Models (Acorn) BR1B chassis as completed that could help?

 

Also, can anyone tell me what's going on here?

 

 

This is a detail from the other picture, bottom left.

 

It may be that all this has been said before on the forum, but the search facility is very unhelpful

 

Thanks

 

bernier

Edited August 26, 2017 by Bernie333

[N15class]

Can't help with first problem, but the second part is a representation of the connection from the handbrake. It is a lever attached to the end of the cross shaft,with the other end going to (or would on rear thing) bottom of brake standard.

[Bernie333]

Thank you Peter - from the diagram it could be anything.

 

I still can't work out, though, why part 38 is two-thirds the size it should be. There's no mention in the instructions, and that chap Jazz just seems to have breezed through it.  I'll just have to make up one that's the right size.

 

B