Kingsbridge Branch : Pannier Tanks and Prairies & the extension to Salcombe

[sigtech]

Yes, that's  very true  - so the only option then seems to be the course I have been taking since the first fiddle yard became full to capacity, followed by the second,  - just carry on buying new items of stock - but be more selective!!

 

Regards

 

SIGTECH

(Steve).

[brianusa]

Usually space is the buffers for unbridled expansion.  Mine is in a three car garage area and after enough room was allowed for a couple of cars, the rest of the area was for the trains.  So a party wall was erected, heat and air installed, carpet laid; add a door and that was that.  No further room for expansion though but I have enough trains already and having reached a  discretionary age(!), am content with what I have available both in stock and space to run them.

 

Brian.

[Blobrick]

Usually space is the buffers for unbridled expansion.  Mine is in a three car garage area and after enough room was allowed for a couple of cars, the rest of the area was for the trains.  So a party wall was erected, heat and air installed, carpet laid; add a door and that was that.  No further room for expansion though but I have enough trains already and having reached a  discretionary age(!), am content with what I have available both in stock and space to run them.

 

Brian.

 

 

 

 

 

My Layout sits along a 16ft long wall, but in its self is only 12ft in length. So there is 2ft extra at each end of the base boards. The main reason for this, is that it just does not look right when stretched beyond 12ft. Plus the 2 ft at each end does afford access to an otherwise inaccessible area of the baseboard. Sometimes size is not everything!

 

However the down side of this is that there is very restricted length at the rear of the layout available for storage. 

 

This is one of the reasons l chose to move away from the "Broadsands" concept, and started looking for a line which had shorter trains and smaller locomotives. However as this thread proves, the Kingsbridge line did have a fair variety of rolling stock in its latter days to such an extent that l am almost back to square one with stock storage!

 

 

Bob C

 

 

[Rail-Online]

Hi,

 

Not sure if you found the livery details for 5558, but just in case you did not here it is in 1960 lined green later crest at Kingsbridge

 

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p130586643/h2cbd2c8b#h2cbd2c8b

 

And again dated August 19th 1959 showing the late crest at Gara Bridge, unfortunately you cannot see if is lined but I suspect so

 

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p130586643/h36613a67#h36613a67

 

Cheers Tony

 

Edit - I have looked at the original scan of the neg for Aug 1959 and I can just make out the lining.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Rail-Online

[Blobrick]

Hi,

 

Not sure if you found the livery details for 5558, but just in case you did not here it is in 1960 lined green later crest at Kingsbridge

 

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p130586643/h2cbd2c8b#h2cbd2c8b

 

And again dated August 19th 1959 showing the late crest at Gara Bridge, unfortunately you cannot see if is lined but I suspect so

 

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p130586643/h36613a67#h36613a67

 

Cheers Tony

 

Edit - I have looked at the original scan of the neg for Aug 1959 and I can just make out the lining.

 

Many Thanks Tony, that confirms what l d found too! Its always good to get a second opinion

 

That leaves 5533s dates to be confirmed, as mentioned earlier it is suspected that the existing photos of her in plain black are incorrectly dated, as they show her circa 1959 which may not be the case. However my digging through photos has also turned up 5525, also working on the branch in black livery with a mixture of maroon and C&C coaching stock suggesting the late 1950s

 

Many thanks

 

Bob C

Edited September 4, 2017 by Blobrick

[gwrrob]

A very nice colour photo find of 3796 at Kingsbridge.

 

[chrisf]

I have come across some info on the working of the Kingsbridge branch freight in summer 1962.  The attachment should be self-explanatory but I found it interesting that the loco ran light from Kingsbridge to Brent to change trainmen.

 

Chris

TURN 65.docx

[Blobrick]

I have come across some info on the working of the Kingsbridge branch freight in summer 1962.  The attachment should be self-explanatory but I found it interesting that the loco ran light from Kingsbridge to Brent to change trainmen.

 

Chris

 

 

Thank you to both Rob and Chris, all this information is so useful, in fact I am indebted to everyone who has contributed on this thread

 

[Blobrick]

Time for a quick update...........work on the layout is progressing but oh so very slowly, at the moment l m trying to design the control panel for the rear fiddle yard, biggest issue at the moment here to site it, where it want cause problems with the cupboard doors below the layout. So as a distraction l have turned my attention to the rolling stock situation.

As my layout covers the time frame 1959 to 1961 l need both "B" set coaches in both Carmine and Maroon. One thing l have noted is that the later Maroon coaches were finished without lining. In fact after trawling though all the photos l have l ve not found one showing a Maroon liveried non corridor with lining.

in any formation.

I am planning to obtain a Hornby R4099 "B" set coach in Maroon, (anyone got one looking for a new home?) but l will need to remove the lining. Can anyone advise me as to the best method to do so, or is it better just to respray the coach and renumber?

My intention is to recreate the formation shown below, I ve already sourced a Collett brake in Maroon, just need the non corridor to complete!

Edited September 27, 2017 by Blobrick

[Miss Prism]

I can't recall seeing a picture of a B-set on the branch.

[Blobrick]

I can't recall seeing a picture of a B-set on the branch.

 

 

Hi Miss Prism

 

I ve attached a still taken from the 1959 Railway roundabout programme. Whilst a little blurry l believe its shows non corridor brakes (Diagram not known) running together forming a "B" set?

 

2nd photo is one of my favourites showing a "B" set with one in Carmine and one in unlined Maroon

 

3rd is a naughty screen grab of a set at Brent Stn in the late 50s

Edited September 27, 2017 by Blobrick

[Miss Prism]

Oh yes. Thanks.

 

The B-set in the Railway Roundabout vid has pressed steel bogies, unrecessed guards doors, close-coupled, unbranded. Its a 57' E147. I can't make out the coach numbers from the vid, but someone with the original video might be able to. (There were some unbranded E147 pairs floating about at the time.)

 

The second shot of the mixed crimson and maroon pair is I think one E147 and one E167 (note the difference in side and roof profiles), both with conventional buffers on their inner ends. Such 'unmatched' pairs seem to be common on the branch.

 

I can't make out what the set in the Brent pic is.

 

 

[Blobrick]

 

Oh yes. Thanks.

 

The B-set in the Railway Roundabout vid has pressed steel bogies, unrecessed guards doors, close-coupled, unbranded. Its a 57' E147. I can't make out the coach numbers from the vid, but someone with the original video might be able to. (There were some unbranded E147 pairs floating about at the time.)

 

The second shot of the mixed crimson and maroon pair is I think one E147 and one E167 (note the difference in side and roof profiles), both with conventional buffers on their inner ends. Such 'unmatched' pairs seem to be common on the branch.

 

I can't make out what the set in the Brent pic is.

 

Hi Miss Prism

 

Thanks for the info on diagrams, it all goes to help

 

The set shown at Brent seems to have the same roof layout, therefore l assume they are the same vehicles/diagram, but l ve no idea as to the actual diagram.  Whilst undertaking this investigation into the stock used on the line l ve been amazed at variation that can be found over such a short period. At the moment l am trying to look into mention of excursion traffic on the branch but have found no photos as yet

[chrisf]

Perhaps I can help.  Until about 1956 Kingsbridge had two B sets of the type modelled when we were young[er] by Airfix, now by Hornby - diagram E140.  These ran in permanently coupled pairs.  A swap was then done because two coaches was far too much capacity for much of the year.  Newer B sets were formed of two coaches which could be separated and some of these were sent to Kingsbridge.  Those in the second photo above are most clearly identified.  The first, in unlined maroon, is an E147 while the other, in crimson, is an E167.  The odd E157 could also be found on the Kingsbridge line.  The E157 has one more first class compartment than the E147 with deeper windows and a slightly different profile. The E167, being a Hawksworth design, has almost flat sides.

 

If you want an accurate model some kit building will be required.  A kit for the E147 is available from Comet.  Worsley Works sell etched sides for the E157 and E167, commissioned by 9793 of this parish.  For the record, yours truly supplied one drawing and told him in which magazine to find the other.

 

When liveries changed in 1956, non-corridor stock at first received unlined maroon.  From mid 1959 lining started to be applied but all three liveries could be seen together in 1962 and possibly later.

 

Chris 

[Blobrick]

Perhaps I can help.  Until about 1956 Kingsbridge had two B sets of the type modelled when we were young[er] by Airfix, now by Hornby - diagram E140.  These ran in permanently coupled pairs.  A swap was then done because two coaches was far too much capacity for much of the year.  Newer B sets were formed of two coaches which could be separated and some of these were sent to Kingsbridge.  Those in the second photo above are most clearly identified.  The first, in unlined maroon, is an E147 while the other, in crimson, is an E167.  The odd E157 could also be found on the Kingsbridge line.  The E157 has one more first class compartment than the E147 with deeper windows and a slightly different profile. The E167, being a Hawksworth design, has almost flat sides.

 

If you want an accurate model some kit building will be required.  A kit for the E147 is available from Comet.  Worsley Works sell etched sides for the E157 and E167, commissioned by 9793 of this parish.  For the record, yours truly supplied one drawing and told him in which magazine to find the other.

 

When liveries changed in 1956, non-corridor stock at first received unlined maroon.  From mid 1959 lining started to be applied but all three liveries could be seen together in 1962 and possibly later.

 

Chris 

 

 

Hi Chris

 

Once again you ve come to my rescue. Very useful information, especially re the lined Maroon stock. So far l don't think l ve found a photo of a lined non corridor coach on the branch, but based on  what you ve said, l could get away with not having to remove lining on the Hornby R4088  phew!

 

Many thanks Chris

[chrisf]

I don't know what R4088 is but I have an awful feeling that it is half a B set.  Then again, ISTR that your period is flexible ...

 

I do know of one lined maroon coach that ran on the branch.  W46205, a non-corridor second as modelled rather basically by Bachmann, was sent there in 1960 in fresh lined maroon paint.  As the bubble car arrived in the spring of 1961 it may not have been there very long.

 

Chris

[Blobrick]

I don't know what R4088 is but I have an awful feeling that it is half a B set.  Then again, ISTR that your period is flexible ...

 

I do know of one lined maroon coach that ran on the branch.  W46205, a non-corridor second as modelled rather basically by Bachmann, was sent there in 1960 in fresh lined maroon paint.  As the bubble car arrived in the spring of 1961 it may not have been there very long.

 

Chris

Yes indeed Chris, the Hornby number l mentioned is a Maroon lined "B" set coach lol

[Pannier Tank]

The following may be of some help?

 

BRENT TO KINGSBRIDGE BRANCH ‘B’ SET BRAKE COMPOSITES

6278 loose ex-“B” Set

6279 loose ex-“B” Set

6284 loose ex-“B” Set

Diagram E.167 Lot 1777 of September 1954 63’ 0.75” x 8’ 11”

6316 + 6335 ‘Kingsbridge Branch No. 1’

Diagram E.145 Lot 1479 of February 1933 61’ 2” x 9’ 3”

Bow-ended, recessed door handles 9’ Harris type ‘f’ bogies

Short buffers at compartment ends, close-coupled

Post-war Chocolate & Cream, double-lined waist, GWR over ‘twin cities’ crest

Photos: Russell ‘Appendix #1’, p. 150, Figs. 381 to 383

Photo: Harris p. 91

6443

Diagram E.141 Lot 1405 of November 1930 61’ 2” x 9’ 3”

Bow-ended Composite, recessed door handles 7’ Harris type ‘e’ bogies

Photo: Russell ‘Appendix #1’, p. 148, Figs. 376

6444

Diagram E.144 Lot 1474 of August 1932 61’ 4.5” X 9’ 3”

Bow-ended Gangwayed Composite

6453 + 6456 ‘Kingsbridge Branch No. 2’

Diagram E.140 Lot 1407 of April 1930 61’ 2” x 9’ 3”

Bow-ended, recessed door handles 7’ Harris type ‘e’ bogies

Short buffers at compartment ends, close-coupled

Post-war Brown, double-lined waist, GWR over ‘twin cities’ crest

Photos: Russell ‘Appendix #1’, p. 148, Figs. 374 & 375

6640 + 6641

Diagram E.135 Lot 1393 of March 1929 58’ 2” x 8’ 10.25”

Bow-ended

6968 + 6969

Diagram E.140 Lot 1455 of May 1931 61’ 2” x 9’ 3”

Bow-ended, recessed door handles 7’ Harris type ‘e’ bogies

Short buffers at compartment ends, close-coupled

Photos: Russell ‘Appendix #1’, p. 148, Figs. 374 & 375 (W 6969)

[Blobrick]

 

The following may be of some help?

 

BRENT TO KINGSBRIDGE BRANCH ‘B’ SET BRAKE COMPOSITES

6278 loose ex-“B” Set

6279 loose ex-“B” Set

6284 loose ex-“B” Set

Diagram E.167 Lot 1777 of September 1954 63’ 0.75” x 8’ 11”

6316 + 6335 ‘Kingsbridge Branch No. 1’

Diagram E.145 Lot 1479 of February 1933 61’ 2” x 9’ 3”

Bow-ended, recessed door handles 9’ Harris type ‘f’ bogies

Short buffers at compartment ends, close-coupled

Post-war Chocolate & Cream, double-lined waist, GWR over ‘twin cities’ crest

Photos: Russell ‘Appendix #1’, p. 150, Figs. 381 to 383

Photo: Harris p. 91

6443

Diagram E.141 Lot 1405 of November 1930 61’ 2” x 9’ 3”

Bow-ended Composite, recessed door handles 7’ Harris type ‘e’ bogies

Photo: Russell ‘Appendix #1’, p. 148, Figs. 376

6444

Diagram E.144 Lot 1474 of August 1932 61’ 4.5” X 9’ 3”

Bow-ended Gangwayed Composite

6453 + 6456 ‘Kingsbridge Branch No. 2’

Diagram E.140 Lot 1407 of April 1930 61’ 2” x 9’ 3”

Bow-ended, recessed door handles 7’ Harris type ‘e’ bogies

Short buffers at compartment ends, close-coupled

Post-war Brown, double-lined waist, GWR over ‘twin cities’ crest

Photos: Russell ‘Appendix #1’, p. 148, Figs. 374 & 375

6640 + 6641

Diagram E.135 Lot 1393 of March 1929 58’ 2” x 8’ 10.25”

Bow-ended

6968 + 6969

Diagram E.140 Lot 1455 of May 1931 61’ 2” x 9’ 3”

Bow-ended, recessed door handles 7’ Harris type ‘e’ bogies

Short buffers at compartment ends, close-coupled

Photos: Russell ‘Appendix #1’, p. 148, Figs. 374 & 375 (W 6969)

 

Hi Pannier Tank

 

Thanks for taking the time to post this info, it is a little earlier than my period, being 1959-61, but interesting all the same, especially to anyone thinking about buying a set of Lionheart/Dapol 0 gauge coaches!

[Blobrick]

Perhaps I can help.  Until about 1956 Kingsbridge had two B sets of the type modelled when we were young[er] by Airfix, now by Hornby - diagram E140.  These ran in permanently coupled pairs.  A swap was then done because two coaches was far too much capacity for much of the year.  Newer B sets were formed of two coaches which could be separated and some of these were sent to Kingsbridge.  Those in the second photo above are most clearly identified.  The first, in unlined maroon, is an E147 while the other, in crimson, is an E167.  The odd E157 could also be found on the Kingsbridge line.  The E157 has one more first class compartment than the E147 with deeper windows and a slightly different profile. The E167, being a Hawksworth design, has almost flat sides.

 

If you want an accurate model some kit building will be required.  A kit for the E147 is available from Comet.  Worsley Works sell etched sides for the E157 and E167, commissioned by 9793 of this parish.  For the record, yours truly supplied one drawing and told him in which magazine to find the other.

 

When liveries changed in 1956, non-corridor stock at first received unlined maroon.  From mid 1959 lining started to be applied but all three liveries could be seen together in 1962 and possibly later.

 

Chris 

 

All this talk of rolling stock has got me thinking about other items of stock that was seen. Has any one seen photos of horse boxes on the branch? I have a couple of the Bachmann BR Mk1 versions which are sitting in their boxes, it would be great to use them as well. Of coarse l could invoke rule 1#, but its nice to stick to fact.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Blobrick

[gwrrob]

I've never seen them in photos but I'm sure they along with cattle vans were seen on the branch along with the NE pigeon van seen in the various books.

[Blobrick]

I've never seen them in photos but I'm sure they along with cattle vans were seen on the branch along with the NE pigeon van seen in the various books.

Hi Rob

 

you are most probably right but its always good to have  photographic evidence! Well as l mentioned, there's always rule No.1 #

Cattle traffic l am happy with as l have found at least one photo  of mixed cattle stock at Kingsbridge in the late 1940s

[mikejames]

Hi Bob,

 

5558 was Newton's last '4575' in black and was a Kingsbridge regular for many years. I will have to check her 'Engine Record Card' to see when it was shopped and painted green, off the top of my head I think it was December 1958.

 

As for the Std 3 tanks, they were used primarily on the Moretonhampstead trains and I suspect the forays down to the South Hams was either for trial or cover for the regular Small Prairies. Either way see the very rare image of two of them at Kingsbridge!

 

Standard 3 Tanks at Kingsbridge.jpg

 

 

Andy.

 

hello

is the 'engine record card' publicly available information?

If so where please?

thank you

regards

mike james

[chrisf]

 Has any one seen photos of horse boxes on the branch?

 

No, but they may have been used to convey pedigree cattle if a special cattle van [beetle] was not available.  Remember that the GW design N16 horse boxes were mostly lettered as calf boxes in their last few years.

 

Chris

[The Fatadder]

All this talk of rolling stock has got me thinking about other items of stock that was seen. Has any one seen photos of horse boxes on the branch? I have a couple of the Bachmann BR Mk1 versions which are sitting in their boxes, it would be great to use them as well. Of coarse l could invoke rule 1#, but its nice to stick to fact.

I have seen a number of photos of a horse box parked up in the headshunt at the end of the Kingsbridge platform at Brent station, certainly not far fetched to think that it might have traveled up the branch.