XC Franchise Extension

[The Stationmaster]

I like to believe one day electrification will reach Plymouth, at least, and also like to believe that whoever champions the idea will also see sense and electrify the route via Bristol rather than via Wetbury.

 

Indeed, surely it's only a matter of time before Bristol - Taunton is upgraded for 125 mph running and then it becomes a no-brainer to send everything via Bristol.

 

The Westbury route is important nowadays, lots of long distance commuters, but only in the same way that the Cotswold line is, no need for West County trains to go that way anymore.

As West of England trains via the Berks & Hants/W&W tend to load to the gunnlels in any case i can't see much sense in diverting them via Bristol and simply adding to the increasingly overcrowded main line between Didcot and Wootton Bassett.

 

If you're going to close the line from Castle Cary to Cogload because the route via Bristol gets electrified as far as Taunton then why not close the Badminton line and run all the South Wales trains via Box and up Filton Bank?

[Covkid]

I'm not over keen on Voyagers as they tend to be noisy and still suffer from some of the appalling engine vibration they had in their early days but they were a pretty fair step forward from the NE-Sw stock they replaced (apart from the truncated HSTs.   But they certainly aren't restful on some long journeys - such as the WCML where they seem to be distinctly at odds with the track at times generating some rather alarming riding.   NE-SW is not so bad as sustained speeds are lower and generally the track seems better than the WCML where they do run fast.

 

I agree and disagree "Stationmaster". As I said upthread the engines are noisy and vibration prone. The Cummins engine is a straight six, whereas the MTUs fitted to the IETs are V12 format. Twice as many pistons halves the vibration and the noise, from what I read online.

 

The voyager ride seems to vary considerably in my view. A good set will give you a good ride, but some also rather randomly emit rather alarming clangs and bangs. Haven't had so many trips on voyagers on the WCML but the journeys on the NE/SW axis seem pretty reasonable to me and running at 125mph on the ECML is actually quite smooth.  

[surfsup]

Any likelihood of additional HSTs will likely be from the Grand Central Pool of 3, as they will be the first to be released from Early next year and are as yet unaccounted for.

[great central]

Any likelihood of additional HSTs will likely be from the Grand Central Pool of 3, as they will be the first to be released from Early next year and are as yet unaccounted for.

From what I've heard the GC HSTs are already committed elsewhere but I'm not in a position to confirm categorically.

[John_Miles]

I think the Voyagers are ok with their greatest virtue being that they are fast. Before they arrived the time keeping on the NE-SW route was absymal, now it is quite good. They were even better when Virgin was running XC and there was a buffet with decent coffee. Also some Voyagers have been fitted with different bogies, I presume this is to improve the ride

[Andrew Young]

Suspect that the likelihood of extra HSTs on the XC network is little or none.

 

The 220s are fitted with lightweight bogies (as are the 222s), the 221s are fitted with heavier duty bogies so they can tilt, they've kept the same designs since they were built.

 

Andrew

[Covkid]

Any likelihood of additional HSTs will likely be from the Grand Central Pool of 3, as they will be the first to be released from Early next year and are as yet unaccounted for.

 

 

I think it is sooner than that. IMHO they will be running a few Christmas period relief trains to the timetabled service before they move on, but the new timetable is planned to be wholely class 180.

[D854_Tiger]

As West of England trains via the Berks & Hants/W&W tend to load to the gunnlels in any case i can't see much sense in diverting them via Bristol and simply adding to the increasingly overcrowded main line between Didcot and Wootton Bassett.

 

If you're going to close the line from Castle Cary to Cogload because the route via Bristol gets electrified as far as Taunton then why not close the Badminton line and run all the South Wales trains via Box and up Filton Bank?

 

I wasn't arguing for closure of any line simply pointing out that if the Taunton - Bristol route were to be upgraded to 125 mph (which should be fairly easy) the via Bristol route would easily become the fastest way to London once electrification reaches Bristol.

 

Also with a 15 min frequency planned for Bristol any WoE trains going that way could run pretty much non-stop east of Bristol.

 

The B&H route could still be served by a half hourly semi-fast say as far as Westbury, Taunton or Exeter.

 

It only needs to be one Plymouth limited stop train an hour running via Bristol, even without the 125 mph upgrade to Taunton, that route is going to be quicker thanks to the greater extent of the electrification that way.

 

Plymouth is entitled to expect the fastest journey possible given it suffers enough already thanks to the limitations of the railway through Devon.

['CHARD]

 Also some Voyagers have been fitted with different bogies, I presume this is to improve the ride

 

I wouldn't have thought so.

 

220s are fitted with inside-bearing bogies, 221s, conventional bogies equipped for tilt.

[The Stationmaster]

I wasn't arguing for closure of any line simply pointing out that if the Taunton - Bristol route were to be upgraded to 125 mph (which should be fairly easy) the via Bristol route would easily become the fastest way to London once electrification reaches Bristol.

 

Also with a 15 min frequency planned for Bristol any WoE trains going that way could run pretty much non-stop east of Bristol.

 

The B&H route could still be served by a half hourly semi-fast say as far as Westbury, Taunton or Exeter.

 

It only needs to be one Plymouth limited stop train an hour running via Bristol, even without the 125 mph upgrade to Taunton, that route is going to be quicker thanks to the greater extent of the electrification that way.

 

Plymouth is entitled to expect the fastest journey possible given it suffers enough already thanks to the limitations of the railway through Devon.

 

But why go via Bristol with more trains over an increasingly crowded stretch of railway between Didcot and Wootton Bassett?  The time saving probably wouldn't be significant unless 125 mph was allowed over a lot of the route between, roughly, Flax Bourton and Cogload and is the money available to do that because it won't be cheap as a couple of new bridges will be required let alone any formation, track, and resignalling costs. 

 

I don't disagree with shaving a few minutes off journey times because it does have perceived commercial advantages but equally reliability has commercial benefits as well.  But it has to be set against  the line capacity situation - as it will be with a full Class 8XX service - on the original GWR mainline and the potential for problem to damage reliability due to heavier line occupation.  and if you're retaining two routes why take trains off the least heavily used one simply to bung them down the Badminton line and Filton Bank?

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

My sole experience of the XC franchise was last July when I and a friend plus extensive luggage travelled from Bournemouth, our home town, to Manchester.

 

This service commenced at Bournemouth and terminated at Manchester so an empty train was virtually guaranteed at both ends. What was a surprise was the overcrowding in the middle with shedloads boarding/alighting in the Birmingham area.

 

We bought our tickets quite early ( May as I recall ) and the fares were reasonable in relation to the alternative of hauling lots of luggage across London from Waterloo to Euston. I don't think I could do that these days. I have asenior railpass and I had a refund voucher from Southern Railway from August 2016 so I did OK on my fare.

 

We also bought our tickets at the Bournemouth Station Travel Centre which, although helpful, did advise us that both reservations and any cheap tickets were not yet 'released'.

 

The ride quality was very good and luggage storage more than adequate. There was a buffet trolley on both services and that was quite reasonable as well.

 

The only jrring note was that we initially sat in coach C which turned out to be a reserved seat coach and we had to move. This is when we learnt that coach B is apparently never reserved or reservable which was useful for the return trip.

 

We were NOT advised on the trip up about this. Staff seemed very relaxed and friendly and one felt one was part of a community on this train as customers boarded and alighted at the stops en route.

 

Speeds were maintained and the train was spot on for timing both ways.

 

All in all a good trip and loads of fun as we were both fully dressed as women.

[D854_Tiger]

My sole experience of the XC franchise was last July when I and a friend plus extensive luggage travelled from Bournemouth, our home town, to Manchester.

 

This service commenced at Bournemouth and terminated at Manchester so an empty train was virtually guaranteed at both ends. What was a surprise was the overcrowding in the middle with shedloads boarding/alighting in the Birmingham area.

 

Unfortunately, for capacity reasons between Coventry and Birmingham, XC are only allowed to run one train an hour via Coventry.

 

This wasn't a problem when the Bournemouth trains were an hourly HST or a six coach half-set but now they are often only four coach Voyagers.

 

To be fair, XC do offer twice the frequency along the Birmingham - Reading - Southampton corridor nowadays but unfortunately one of those trains must travel direct Leamington - Birmingham, via Solihull and missing both Coventry and Birmingham International (for the airport), both of which generate quite a lot of passenger demand.

 

Most especially when there is a show on at the NEC.

[Zomboid]

Unfortunately, for capacity reasons between Coventry and Birmingham, XC are only allowed to run one train an hour via Coventry.

 

This wasn't a problem when the Bournemouth trains were an hourly HST or a six coach half-set but now they are often only four coach Voyagers.

 

To be fair, XC do offer twice the frequency along the Birmingham - Reading - Southampton corridor nowadays but unfortunately one of those trains must travel direct Leamington - Birmingham, via Solihull and missing both Coventry and Birmingham International (for the airport), both of which generate quite a lot of passenger demand.

 

Most especially when there is a show on at the NEC.

Last time I caught the one which doesn't stop between New St & Leamington, it actually ran via Coventry.

Was unusual to run through International at line speed when just about everything stops there. No idea if that's a normal thing or if it was a one off on that day.

[TomJ]

Whatever the merits of the voyager the current service is so much better than it used to be. I was a student in the late 90s and regularly travelling Leeds - Reading. Two or even three hour connections at Bham were the norm and there was often only one or two trains a day that worked out. No HST or loco hauled stock is worth three hours waiting at New Street on a Sunday afternoon!! The regular clock face departures introduced by Virgin transformed my weekend trips.

[royaloak]

From what I've heard the GC HSTs are already committed elsewhere but I'm not in a position to confirm categorically.

Why cant you tell us they are going to EMT?

[lmsforever]

Only been on a Voyager once ,I had been to Wigan model railway show and the WCML was shut southwards but had a very interesting wander through to Chester and Crewe for a change of train.The ride was good and the coach quiet with good service from the buffet and a most informative conductor pointing out interesting places on route liked the tables and seats.

[D1059]

Yes, but only by a year or two. Early 1980s I photographed the first HSTs through Leicester on service trains - a timetabled Sunday diversion of NE/SW cross-country services. 

 

Taken a few months before HSTs started appearing on MML services

 

Leicester HST by Stephen Dance, on Flickr

[The Stationmaster]

Unfortunately, for capacity reasons between Coventry and Birmingham, XC are only allowed to run one train an hour via Coventry.

 

This wasn't a problem when the Bournemouth trains were an hourly HST or a six coach half-set but now they are often only four coach Voyagers.

 

To be fair, XC do offer twice the frequency along the Birmingham - Reading - Southampton corridor nowadays but unfortunately one of those trains must travel direct Leamington - Birmingham, via Solihull and missing both Coventry and Birmingham International (for the airport), both of which generate quite a lot of passenger demand.

 

Most especially when there is a show on at the NEC.

 

The big problem in the West Midlands is not so much the long distance travellers but those using XC services as local trains.  Obviously as they are the only trains between Leamington and Coventry & international that is unavoidable to some extent but what is noticeable is the extent to which the XC trains are used as 'local trains' between Leamington and New St and vice versa.  

 

Making certain stops U stops only might not be a bad idea although no doubt the locals would quickly get wise and would only be caught by on-train ticket checks but I think something is long overdue.  But then of course XC would lose a share of Leamington - Birmingham revenue so they might prefer to inconvenience their longer distance passengers?

[Dunsignalling]

The big problem in the West Midlands is not so much the long distance travellers but those using XC services as local trains.  Obviously as they are the only trains between Leamington and Coventry & international that is unavoidable to some extent but what is noticeable is the extent to which the XC trains are used as 'local trains' between Leamington and New St and vice versa.  

 

Making certain stops U stops only might not be a bad idea although no doubt the locals would quickly get wise and would only be caught by on-train ticket checks but I think something is long overdue.  But then of course XC would lose a share of Leamington - Birmingham revenue so they might prefer to inconvenience their longer distance passengers?

They really need to sort something out. If it were my decision, I would chop the Leamington and Coventry stops altogether until and unless minimum 8-car trains can be provided on the busiest services. 

 

I doubt I am the only contributor who has ceased to attend the Warley show (I haven't been since 2013) because of the ever worsening conditions on the 0847 train from Basingstoke. Last time I started fighting my way out as soon  as we left Coventry and only narrowly managed to disembark at International.

 

John

Edited September 5, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Unfortunately, for capacity reasons between Coventry and Birmingham, XC are only allowed to run one train an hour via Coventry.

 

This wasn't a problem when the Bournemouth trains were an hourly HST or a six coach half-set but now they are often only four coach Voyagers.

 

To be fair, XC do offer twice the frequency along the Birmingham - Reading - Southampton corridor nowadays but unfortunately one of those trains must travel direct Leamington - Birmingham, via Solihull and missing both Coventry and Birmingham International (for the airport), both of which generate quite a lot of passenger demand.

 

Most especially when there is a show on at the NEC.

I wasn't really watching but I am sure that we stopped at Leamington on the way up and the Airport/International on the way back as that is when our table companions got off to catch a flight to Dublin. Amazing as they were in Indian national dress and unaccompanied.

[Siberian Snooper]

I wasn't really watching but I am sure that we stopped at Leamington on the way up and the Airport/International on the way back as that is when our table companions got off to catch a flight to Dublin. Amazing as they were in Indian national dress and unaccompanied.

Have you ridden on Indian railway trains, you need to be good at scrumaging to get on and off some, the higher the class the easier it is.

[Robert Shrives]

Last time I caught the one which doesn't stop between New St & Leamington, it actually ran via Coventry.

Was unusual to run through International at line speed when just about everything stops there. No idea if that's a normal thing or if it was a one off on that day.

 I divert trains quite often if with late running a clearer run possible , what decides is how the "darkside" locals run with the infrequent Leamington stopper if followed can add 15 minutes to a 10 minute late train from the North East. To consider is the location and running of the freights as these seem to use a sundial for timekeeping and these choke out "white space" on the Coventry - Leamington line - which will disappear shortly with the new local service from LM. Sadly the new station on the line not in the loop so branch  capacity reduction a double whammy, so enjoy the non stops while you can !

Robert      

[RfDforever]

'Network West Midlands' which seems to perform the same role as the former PTE, offers a "Day Tripper" ticket for £6.60, valid after 9.30 and, obviously, for one day. It is valid on buses, the tram, and, relevantly, trains.

It's not clear whether the area covered includes Coventry or other places that were in the old WMPTE area but it certainly allows travel by train from Wolverhampton to Birmingham International. The website illustrates the various rover ticket options with a photograph of a passenger in  the first class of a Pendolino and offers 'upgrades' to first class.

It's been mentioned that XC trains are very crowded through the West Midlands and the availability of this ticket suggests one reason. Bearing in mind that the ticket income has to be shared around the bus and tram operators as well as the four train companies involved, it would be interesting to know what income the last-named receive.

[D854_Tiger]

The big problem in the West Midlands is not so much the long distance travellers but those using XC services as local trains.  Obviously as they are the only trains between Leamington and Coventry & international that is unavoidable to some extent but what is noticeable is the extent to which the XC trains are used as 'local trains' between Leamington and New St and vice versa.  

 

 

 

I suspect few from Leamington would choose, for no good reason, to take a XC train to Birmingham, especially via Coventry, as those trains take longer than Chiltern services.

 

My guess is the attraction of New St is to make connections to elsewhere, in that sense XC provide an important service for places like Oxford, Banbury and Leamington that couldn't be replicated by forcing them all to go via Moor St.

[D854_Tiger]

'Network West Midlands' which seems to perform the same role as the former PTE, offers a "Day Tripper" ticket for £6.60, valid after 9.30 and, obviously, for one day. It is valid on buses, the tram, and, relevantly, trains.

It's not clear whether the area covered includes Coventry or other places that were in the old WMPTE area but it certainly allows travel by train from Wolverhampton to Birmingham International. The website illustrates the various rover ticket options with a photograph of a passenger in  the first class of a Pendolino and offers 'upgrades' to first class.

It's been mentioned that XC trains are very crowded through the West Midlands and the availability of this ticket suggests one reason. Bearing in mind that the ticket income has to be shared around the bus and tram operators as well as the four train companies involved, it would be interesting to know what income the last-named receives

 

The Wolverhampton, New St, International, Coventry route has loads of operators the PAX tend to just take the first (fast) train available be that a Pendolino, Voyager, class 350 or even an Arriva Wales class 158 heading for Pwllheli.

 

How else to expect the passengers to behave when say a show turns out at the NEC be they locals or longer distance travellers.

 

Then it would be just too confusing and have implications for crowd control if you tried segregating them according to what type of traveller they were.