Manning Wardle L Class 0-6-0 (Agenoria Kit)

[Simond]

Fine multi strand wire is available from the usual DCC suppliers. I bought a mixed colour pack, but regret I can’t recall from whom.

 

I’m pretty sure ESU have a pack in their catalog.

 

However, rather than using Slaters pickups, I now make my own, following a design posted by DLOS. My version differs in detail from David’s but the principle is the same - that the spring bears on both plungers, rather than on one plunger and the frames. This means that the plungers float, and can slide from side to side to accommodate any sideplay in the axle (which can be pretty limited in 0 finescale) and this means that the spring pressure can be very low, as it will be consistent (always providing the wheels run true, of course).

 

There are some pictures in my Duchess thread.

 

Best

Simon

Edited April 27, 2018 by Simond

[doilum]

I had forgotten that DCC might be a source of suitable wire, but there again, I still dream of going spring powered in scale 7.

[jdb82]

The insulated bushes:

They measure 7 mm end to end.

The outside flange is 5mm across.

They are slightly conical and I have a "dedicated" 9/64 drill, but you are probably safe enough with 3mm. The important thing is to achieve a snug fit that doesn't compress the bush as this will compromise the smooth action of the plunger.

I do the final fit with a round file.

For best results the plunger needs to contact the middle of the metal flange, hence the use of a 1mm pilot. If you go slightly large, the situation can be recovered with a drop of the gel type super glue.

I have even managed to reposition a pick up after the original builder had located it exactly in line with a rim insulation band. This was due to using cast wheels instead of Slaters. Subsequent owners had tried additional wiper types but it still ran badly. Once centered on metal it runs like a watch.

If people have a problem with Slaters pickups, it is almost certainly one of three issues:

1) too tight

2) off centre

3) the electrical lead is too heavy or inflexible.

This final point is often overlooked. My best source is usually from salvaged phone or IT cable. It needs to be copper and multistrand. :

Hopefully this helps.

 

 

Fine multi strand wire is available from the usual DCC suppliers. I bought a mixed colour pack, but regret I can’t recall from whom.

 

I’m pretty sure ESU have a pack in their catalog.

 

However, rather than using Slaters pickups, I now make my own, following a design posted by DLOS. My version differs in detail from David’s but the principle is the same - that the spring bears on both plungers, rather than on one plunger and the frames. This means that the plungers float, and can slide from side to side to accommodate any sideplay in the axle (which can be pretty limited in 0 finescale) and this means that the spring pressure can be very low, as it will be consistent (always providing the wheels run true, of course).

 

There are some pictures in my Duchess thread.

 

Best

Simon

 

 

I had forgotten that DCC might be a source of suitable wire, but there again, I still dream of going spring powered in scale 7.

 

 

Thank you chaps! Most helpful. I shall add them to my shopping list and then smile nicely at my dad to nip down to DHL. Simon, I'll take a look at your thread and that of DLOS, although I think I shall stick to bought ones this time round. Home made ones are an option for my next venture...... Holes will be drilled and frames constructed this weekend, all being well.

[doilum]

Whilst you are being a student of pickups, have a look on"Jims 7mm workbench: Acorn BR standard 3 tank". On the first page he shows an alternate type which I have seen used effectively. In your case however, the limited space would make Slaters a better option.

[Regularity]

Thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129493-jims-7mm-workbench-acorn-br-standard-3-tank/

Pickups on the first post.

[doilum]

Thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129493-jims-7mm-workbench-acorn-br-standard-3-tank/

Pickups on the first post.

Thanks.

I will master the art of internet linking the week after I manage split axles and diy driving wheels......

[Regularity]

Go to address part at top of browser, click on it and select all, then copy.

Paste it into the message/posting.

 

Split axles and making your own wheels are not too difficult, but first, do you have a lathe?

[jdb82]

In the absence of enough money to be able to afford AutoCad or similar, I've been playing around with some new software this weekend. I have used Affinity Photo as an alternative to Adobe Photoshop for a while now, and they have recently released Affinity Designer for more vector based applications. I intend producing the artwork for some etches of my own in the future using it. For now though, I used Affinity Designer to rescale a drawing of the kit (which does seem to have been drawn to scale, just not 7mm scale). I then put one of the chassis frames on the scanner and scanned to 100%, and overlaid this onto the drawing, adding in frame spacers, firebox & backhead locations as well as potential plunger locations. I wanted to see which motor/gearbox combo would fit, and how it would all go together; or more importantly, what won't fit and where!

 

I guess @doilum that this is a digital version of what you suggested with building a plastikard mockup, even if it's not 3D....

 

 

Straight away, I realised that the rear plunger would need moving, as the gearbox would be occupying that space. The spacers and the gearbox between them don't leave me many options for where to put them. I'm not compensating or springing the axels (that prospect still scares me), so at least I don't need to locate them on the vertical plain.

 

Having produced scale versions of the motor/gearboxes on offer, I then overlaid this onto the drawing. Clearly the Mashima 1833 is too big. It would foul the backhead - the front of the cab can't be opened up either because of the former for the saddle tank.

 

 

Good news though, the Mashima 1624 wit the the Slaters gearbox looks as though it will sit nicely in the firebox, although I'll need to take a bit off the spindle at the top - no flywheel for me once again....

 

 

This has been a useful little exercise, if not a little long winded as I taught myself how to use the software. Another skill added to the growing list.

Now I know where the plungers will go, I'll drill the pilot holes and crack on with soldering everything up.

Edited April 29, 2018 by jdb82

[doilum]

Go to address part at top of browser, click on it and select all, then copy.

Paste it into the message/posting.

Split axles and making your own wheels are not too difficult, but first, do you have a lathe?

 

No, I have never quite got round to that type of engineering, unless you count the black&decker in the workmate tool. My tender locomotives have mostly used the American system of current collection and Slaters work well on the tank locos.

Perhaps one day......

[Regularity]

You can make split axles without a lathe, but for making your own wheels, you have no choice. Ironically, it is actually a relatively straightforward exercise, if a bit fiddly and time consuming at times.

[Simond]

For split axles, see my Garratt thread, where I have some photos showing what I did, following Steph Dale’s method, for both driven and non driven axles.

 

This method does use a lathe, though it could be done without

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/119828-another-beyer-garratt-0-4-4-0/?p=2636951

 

Best

Simon

Edited April 29, 2018 by Simond

[doilum]

In the absence of enough money to be able to afford AutoCad or similar, I've been playing around with some new software this weekend. I have used Affinity Photo as an alternative to Adobe Photoshop for a while now, and they have recently released Affinity Designer for more vector based applications. I intend producing the artwork for some etches of my own in the future using it. For now though, I used Affinity Designer to rescale a drawing of the kit (which does seem to have been drawn to scale, just not 7mm scale). I then put one of the chassis frames on the scanner and scanned to 100%, and overlaid this onto the drawing, adding in frame spacers, firebox & backhead locations as well as potential plunger locations. I wanted to see which motor/gearbox combo would fit, and how it would all go together; or more importantly, what won't fit and where!

 

I guess @doilum that this is a digital version of what you suggested with building a plastikard mockup, even if it's not 3D....

 

setup.jpg

 

Straight away, I realised that the rear plunger would need moving, as the gearbox would be occupying that space. The spacers and the gearbox between them don't leave me many options for where to put them. I'm not compensating or springing the axels (that prospect still scares me), so at least I don't need to locate them on the vertical plain.

 

Having produced scale versions of the motor/gearboxes on offer, I then overlaid this onto the drawing. Clearly the Mashima 1833 is too big. It would foul the backhead - the front of the cab can't be opened up either because of the former for the saddle tank.

 

1833.png

 

Good news though, the Mashima 1624 wit the the Slaters gearbox looks as though it will sit nicely in the firebox, although I'll need to take a bit off the spindle at the top - no flywheel for me once again....

 

1624.png

 

This has been a useful little exercise, if not a little long winded as I taught myself how to use the software. Another skill added to the growing list.

Now I know where the plungers will go, I'll drill the pilot holes and crack on with soldering everything up.

Rear ones definitely behind the axle

[doilum]

Rear ones definitely behind the axle

Impressed with IT skills!!!!

[jdb82]

Slow progress on the MW once again.....seemingly restricted to a few hours, one day a week at the moment. Having digitally modelled clearances, I drilled the pilot holes for the plunger pickups, and have managed to solder the main structural elements of the chassis together. Surprisingly, it all went together relatively easily and the wheels spin very freely. There's a bit more side play than on my previous build - maybe 1.5mm-ish. Not sure if this is too much. I have some fibre washers on standby if need be. 

With everything cleaned up, I'll add some of the chassis detail next whilst I wait for the plunger pickups to arrive.

The tabs from the frame spacers which poke through the frame, I have filed smooth. They look as though they have gaps around them - apart from 2 tiny holes which need filling with solder, all the rest are completely filled and smooth - there are dark areas because I've given it a good scrub with Viakal - not sure what this has in it, but it has a tendency to durn the solder much darker. An accidental discovery - it turns out mosquito repellent has a similar effect!

 

 

 

[doilum]

Slow progress on the MW once again.....seemingly restricted to a few hours, one day a week at the moment. Having digitally modelled clearances, I drilled the pilot holes for the plunger pickups, and have managed to solder the main structural elements of the chassis together. Surprisingly, it all went together relatively easily and the wheels spin very freely. There's a bit more side play than on my previous build - maybe 1.5mm-ish. Not sure if this is too much. I have some fibre washers on standby if need be. 

With everything cleaned up, I'll add some of the chassis detail next whilst I wait for the plunger pickups to arrive.

The tabs from the frame spacers which poke through the frame, I have filed smooth. They look as though they have gaps around them - apart from 2 tiny holes which need filling with solder, all the rest are completely filled and smooth - there are dark areas because I've given it a good scrub with Viakal - not sure what this has in it, but it has a tendency to durn the solder much darker. An accidental discovery - it turns out mosquito repellent has a similar effect!

 

IMG_7966.JPG

 

IMG_7968.JPG

Very impressive. Now to try the motor/ gearbox.

[jdb82]

Very impressive. Now to try the motor/ gearbox.

 

As requested!

 

https://youtu.be/xBNbDS5q5Cg

 

To be honest, with the problems I had with the coupling rod, and the overly-large holes needed as a result for the crankpin bush, I'm amazed it runs at all without jamming up. The fact that it is running this smoothly when nothing really attached (none of the bushes, crankpins or rods are actually fixed or tightened in any way - just resting in their positions) is nothing short of a miracle! 

[doilum]

As requested!

 

https://youtu.be/xBNbDS5q5Cg

 

To be honest, with the problems I had with the coupling rod, and the overly-large holes needed as a result for the crankpin bush, I'm amazed it runs at all without jamming up. The fact that it is running this smoothly when nothing really attached (none of the bushes, crankpins or rods are actually fixed or tightened in any way - just resting in their positions) is nothing short of a miracle!

 

They often do that!

To be fair, that is running nicely.

The test now comes with everything tightened up. Given your location, try not to loose any crank pin nuts. A spot of paint, blutack or even nail varnish on the end threads will help. If you are really lucky, it will continue to run sweetly, if not, any binding or oscillations will identify work to do. This is best done before pickups are fitted in order to limit the number of variables. In the event of binding, remove one pair of wheels and run it as a four coupled loco, then repeat from the other end.

This is also the time to check it sits flat on a sheet of glass, and more importantly, flat on a short length of track. Like most old school modellers, I allow the centre wheels a half millimetre of vertical float.

[N15class]

Looking good.

 

As for side play I would make the front and rear have the minimum you can.The centre no more than a 1mm and it will go around most things you want to run it on. The reason for none on front and rear is that it will make it go straight down the straight bits of track not hunt from side to side.

 

for packing I use 0BA, 5mm, 4mm and 3mm brass washers, they are all slightly different thicknesses, but the 3 and 4mm do need opening up to 3/16".

[jdb82]

Not much progress to report in the last couple of weeks.....the only thing I have to show in the last 2 weeks are cutting and gluing 4 wheel balance weights for the front and back axels.

 

The etches were clearly designed for different wheels, and didn't even come close to fitting. I cut these down with a piercing saw, and then super glued them onto plasticard to give them some depth. Using a craft knife, I trimmed the plasticard to shape and then filed flush with the etch. These were then superglued on. 

 

The centre wheels need balance weights as well, but on the crankpin side of the wheel. I need to think about how best to do this, as the boss on the slaters wheel will make it very difficult to profile and achieve the exact shape.

 

 

 

[jdb82]

Whilst pondering the middle axel wheel balances, I thought I'd move on to the brake hangers. The three layers of etches were laminated in the usual way of setting up a jig of 2 drill bits in a block of wood to keep everything in line. Lots of flux between the layers helped to draw the solder through between the layers. It's important not to get any flux or solder onto the front of the top layer, as if it gets into the half-etched parts, its a real PITA to remove. 

 

Here's how they came out. Straight after soldering:

 

After some work with a file around the edges:

 

After a good polish with various grades of wet and dry, and a scratch brush on the top surface:

 

All 6 completed

Edited May 19, 2018 by jdb82

[jdb82]

Work on the MW May have to be put on hold whilst I source another soldering iron, as mine appears to have packed in..... I suspect it’s probably the iron element, as the temperature control unit still seems to be in one piece. They seem a bit on the pricey side though!

Need to get a multi-meter to test the element first before I buy a replacement

[jdb82]

And so the long wait for a replacement soldering iron continues....... My model is sat on my desk, beginning almost apologetically for me to do something with it! A holiday away last week didn't help matters, although I did buy a cheap (equivalent of about £3) iron from a local tool shop. Predictably, this didn't last too long before smoke began to pour from within the business end. 

 

It did last long enough to solder the hangers onto the hanger wires. Still got about 4 joints to go, but at least I got something done! 

Hopefully the Antex will arrive this week. Then I just need to hope that the problem lays in the iron, and not in the temp. control box itself. Whilst I have a basic understanding of electronics, this one would likely be beyond me given that there's nothing obviously 'black' inside it! Fingers crossed.

 

 

[jdb82]

My box of goodies has arrived! Enough bits and pieces to keep me going for a while, and a soldering iron that works 

I finished off soldering the brake hangers to the support beams. After that, one of the first things I played with out of the box was the Slaters plunger pickups. Never having used them before, I was surprised how wide they are.....a bit difficult to hide on a small industrial tank. A bit of filing back of the outer flange may be needed to hide it completely behind the wheel. I was quite pleased that my measurement to determine the location of the hole in the frame was so accurate - the contact is plumb in the centre of the back of the wheel rim. 

 

Now the springs are pretty tiny, and do not feel very strong, however the added friction on the back of the wheels are preventing the axel from rotating freely. The wheels don't even want to turn when I drag it along a wooden surface, let alone rail. I was expecting some resistance but not that much! The axels spins feeling when the plungers are retracted and held apart. As you can see from the photos below, nothin else is touching the wheel - only the plunger contact.

 

I'll give the back of the wheel a good polish with some emery paper and see if that makes a difference.

 

 

[doilum]

My box of goodies has arrived! Enough bits and pieces to keep me going for a while, and a soldering iron that works 

I finished off soldering the brake hangers to the support beams. After that, one of the first things I played with out of the box was the Slaters plunger pickups. Never having used them before, I was surprised how wide they are.....a bit difficult to hide on a small industrial tank. A bit of filing back of the outer flange may be needed to hide it completely behind the wheel. I was quite pleased that my measurement to determine the location of the hole in the frame was so accurate - the contact is plumb in the centre of the back of the wheel rim. 

 

Now the springs are pretty tiny, and do not feel very strong, however the added friction on the back of the wheels are preventing the axel from rotating freely. The wheels don't even want to turn when I drag it along a wooden surface, let alone rail. I was expecting some resistance but not that much! The axels spins feeling when the plungers are retracted and held apart. As you can see from the photos below, nothin else is touching the wheel - only the plunger contact.

 

I'll give the back of the wheel a good polish with some emery paper and see if that makes a difference.

 

IMG_8189.jpg

 

IMG_8190.jpg

Looks about right. Once the wheels are spinning, the plungers should "dance" along with any sideplay.

Find the lightest multistrand wire and solder to the tags provided. I usually solder the tag to the plunger saving the second nut for the sparebox.

[Simond]

Top photo, the plastic housing is not fully back onto the frames - that will increase your preload, and resulting friction.

 

Fully agree about the lightest possible wire - I use stuff that is only 0.5mm over the insulation!

 

Best

Simon