doilum Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Ah daughter. Congratulations you are now a lost cause. Regardless of any previous pacifist leaning you will now, without a second thought, execute gbh on anyone or thing that threatens Her happiness. Her wish is only a moment's work for your visa card. Soon she will disappear into an all female club with mother leaving you with quality modelling time, and before you can blink, will be working and gift wrapping a set of Slaters wheels each birthday. Where did the last 35 years go? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 Sleep deprived and homeless after my modelling room was mercilessly taken over as the new nursery, I returned briefly to the temporary bench today after 7 weeks of nappy changing, feeds and running errands for new mummy. Not too much progress, but gave the footplate and the outside of the cab a polish with the Gariflex to remove several weeks of tarnish. Managed to complete the remaining wheel splashers using the method described previously, and epoxied to the running plate. Generally, I prefer to solder details on where possible, however there was no access from the back due to the leaf springs, and I was concerned that if I cranked the iron up to heat from below the plate, everything would get too hot and simply fall apart..... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 Warning: Long post ahead as I catch up with lots of bits of work from the last few weeks! Slow progress over the last month – work and a baby have meant Bamburgh has been progressing at a snails pace, quite literally one joint at a time quite often. The next stage of the build was the boiler, smokebox and tank. I turned my attention to the boiler first, only the bottom of which is provided as most of the rest of it is hidden under the tank. The pre-rolled etch is only half-etched and therefore rather flimsy. I wanted to firm this up a little so it didn’t get damaged or twisted during installation. Using part of the smokebox etch, I marked a circle on 12thou brass sheet, cut out with a piercing saw, and then smoothed out to a ‘perfect’-ish circle by putting it a spare mandrel in the mini-drill and holding against a file. This was then cut in half, and soldered to the inside of the boiler. It was at this stage that I needed to think about a bit of ‘cosmetic surgery’. There are many variations on the ‘standard’ L Class. The kit was originally designed as a model of ‘Winston Churchill’, currently residing at the Black Country Living Museum. This loco had the tank butting right up against the front of the cab. Bamburgh, however, has a gap between the back of the tank and the cab front, with the top of the boiler or firebox (apologies for my ignorance…maybe someone can tell me which it is) visible. This variant is not catered for in the kit, and so the visible section of the boiler had to be fabricated from scratch, and the tank needed shortening by a few millimetres. The band was made out of 10thou nickel silver (I would have used brass as it’s a bit more flexible, but I only had either 12 or 5 thou), but needed an oval former making first to keep the band in the right shape. The disc I made for the ribs of the boiler above was used as a template before I cut it in half. Once I had soldered the band to the former, I removed a hole from the former to allow assess for soldering to the tank later in the build. From one end of the boiler to the other – next up was the smokebox. The smokebox wrapper was pre-rolled, and has a series of half-etched lines on the inside to aid shaping the reverse curve at the bottom. While being helpful to shape, I inevitably ended up with crease/fold lines on the outside. This needed careful use of various grades of wet & dry to smooth out. I did this very gingerly as I was quite worried that I would end up sanding through the half-etched metal. All was fine in the end though. I suspect I’ll have the same problem when I tackle the tank, as this has the same etch design for shaping the sharp-ish corners. The front of the cab had a locating hole to set the tank at the correct height. However as the tank was shortened at this end and no longer butts up to the cab, this needed to be filled. A coffee stirrer was held behind the hole, whilst this was flooded with flux and solder, which was then cleaned up with dental scrapers and wet&dry. After this, the boiler and smokebox could be soldered together. The boiler was just tack soldered at the cab end so that it remained flexible so it could be easily levelled up. After a bit of wrestling, the smokebox was fitted to the running plate. The boiler was tricky to fit into the smokebox locating holes – it turned out the boiler hadn’t been rolled parallel to the edges, and was slightly twisted. Luckily it wasn’t far out, and the ribs I added gave it enough strength for me to correct the twist just enough without wrecking anything! Finally, the extra bit of visible boiler/firebox(?)needed attaching to the boiler and the cab. The former meant that this was exactly the same diameter as the boiler. I soldered it to the boiler first, and filed and sanded the join. I hadn’t been looking forwards to this, but I think it turned out pretty well in the end. Next I cut a thin strip of 5thou brass for the boiler band. As this was soldered on, it also soldered the whole assembly to the cab. A few minutes work with a file, scrapers and wet&dry cleaned everything up. Now to see how many weeks it takes me to get the tank sorted! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Major Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Fabulous work. I love the way you think your way through the issues. How many hands do you have? I ask this as a result of seeing your photo of the piercing saw in use. When ever I try to photograph this activity I invariably break the blade! Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 Fabulous work. I love the way you think your way through the issues. How many hands do you have? I ask this as a result of seeing your photo of the piercing saw in use. When ever I try to photograph this activity I invariably break the blade! Ian. Thanks Ian, sometimes the issues are quite straightforwards t solve, however more often than not I don’t think of then early enough, which makes it more difficult than it should be! This time though, I’d had plenty of pondering time, so managed to plan ahead quite well for a change. As for the hands, I sadly only have two, however legs, and anything else I can wedge things up against me in handy for propping things up for a quick photo. All my photos are just taken on my phone, so I can manage with just one hand when needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) The tank assembly looked quite straightforwards.....looked! And I suppose it was really, it was just difficult to shape the top correctly. The tank wrapper (which I had cut a 4mm strip off to shorten it - see previous post) had half-etched lines to help bend the tank round the fairly sharp corners. I tack soldered the formers to the wrapper, matching up the centre line marks to make sure everything would be nice and square. I now needed to start bending the top of the tank and solder to the formers. I folded an old rag to use as a soft base, and pressed the wrapper onto the former. The problem was that because of the half-etch lines, the full-thickness metal was reluctant to bend, and I ended up with a sharp fold line on the first half-etch. After much wrestling, adjusting and swearing, I finally got it all soldered together. Maybe I'll rename Bamburgh to, "Vader".... On the 2nd photo below, you can see the resulting fold marks from the half-etches. Most of the fold marks I was able to sand away with 280 grit wet&dry. The bottom 3mm or so of the tank sides will fold under to make the bottom of the tank. I'll also add the handrail knobs and the injectors before fitting to the rest of the loco, whilst I can still get to the inside to solder from behind. Think that will be about the last chance I get to do anything on Bamburgh until January now - weekdays don't seem very productive (for modelling!) at the moment, and I fly back to the UK for Christmas on Saturday. I look forwards to reading about all your Christmas pressies that make their way onto your workbench! Happy Christmas All! Edited December 9, 2018 by jdb82 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 In my experience, half etched slots to help form a curve are of no help whatsoever, indeed, just the opposite. It is vital to get a get a consistent curve that you apply a consistent bending moment to a consistent material and it would be good if the designers recognised that. Given that the trap was designed into the kit, I think you’ve done a very creditable job of sorting it out, the only way possible, by polishing out the inevitable series of creases which formed. I think you should be proud of it! Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 At least they are slightly better than a half etched block. I try when possible to fill with solder. It helps quite a lot. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 In my experience, half etched slots to help form a curve are of no help whatsoever, indeed, just the opposite. It is vital to get a get a consistent curve that you apply a consistent bending moment to a consistent material and it would be good if the designers recognised that. Given that the trap was designed into the kit, I think you’ve done a very creditable job of sorting it out, the only way possible, by polishing out the inevitable series of creases which formed. I think you should be proud of it! Best Simon Thanks Simon , it looks ok at the moment......I guess the real test will be once it’s in primer and see how many lines show up then,, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Thanks Simon , it looks ok at the moment......I guess the real test will be once it’s in primer and see how many lines show up then,, In theory the etched lines should help, in practice..... My approach is to take the dremel to the etched area and remove the ribs. It can then be worked around some suitable round bar. A good set square and a plate glass help to keep things square. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted December 13, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2018 In my experience, half etched slots to help form a curve are of no help whatsoever, indeed, just the opposite. It is vital to get a get a consistent curve that you apply a consistent bending moment to a consistent material and it would be good if the designers recognised that. Given that the trap was designed into the kit, I think you’ve done a very creditable job of sorting it out, the only way possible, by polishing out the inevitable series of creases which formed. I think you should be proud of it! Best Simon They work best with sharper radius curves - these look a bit big. Best way to take them out if there's no other detail and you can easily get at it is with a large flat file - used with a rocking action round the curve (the opposite action to what we all learn for filing flat), finish with wet and dry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brack Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 At least the half etched lines are in the right place. I'm currently working through one where the half etched lines are actually below where the bend should be. It really didn't want to bend in the right place or stay straight where it ought to be either. Annealing the whole thing several times helped. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Honestly, I don’t think they work at all. Not in theory, nor in practice. Peter’s suggestion, of filling them with solder is a good solution, but honestly, they just don’t help. Particularly, if they’re not in the right place. But, hey, it’s just my opinion. Best Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 December? Really that long ago? Mmmm..... couple of separate trips back to the UK, a big school inspection, and oh - a baby. I guess regretfully, modelling has been pushed down the pecking order a bit :-( Not much to report, but thought I'd just post a quick update to prove I'm sill alive - I have added the handrails to the sides of the saddle tank and epoxied the tank filler cap on top (apologies for the lack of photos). Next was to make up some injectors, as the castings (which were of pretty poor quality anyway) bore little resemblance to the ones used on Bamburgh after its 1934 overhaul, which looked fairly meaty. I made these from various slivers of brass telescopic tubing and some 12ba nuts. The photos are fairly self explanatory - just need to add the copper pipes to it's various orifices (should that be orofi?) to the cab and clack valves. Admittedly they do not look the cleanest of soldering jobs under the closeup of a lens, but they'll look just fine once I have smothered them in paint and weathering powders ;-) Having just about cobbled one together, I now had to try and replicated an exact mirror image for the other side. Not sure I managed the 'exact' bit, but I did at least end up with 2 :-) On current form, my next post may be around April time 6 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 For some time now, I've been looking to cut corners on cleaning the model, as I seem to (need to) spend a disproportionate amount of time cleaning and polishing the model instead of actually building the thing! I look at the work of PAD, Mick and Richard from Finney7 and many others on this forum and stand in awe of how clean and shiny their models always are. I suppose what I should be doing is scrubbing it down with soap and water, followed by a toothbrushing with Viakal or similar, followed by another rinse and a blow with the hair drier after each and every session. In reality, all I either have time for, or can muster the enthusiasm for, is a quick scrub with washing up liquid to prevent the green monster from the flux appearing. So today I tried a little experiment. I have an ultrasonic cleaner, which is great for removing grime, but not tarnish. I have Viakal, which is great for brightening up the brass. I thought mixing (1:5ish) with water in the cleaner might do the trick. I left the parts in there for about 25 minutes at 70 degrees celsius. Really, I should have known better, as if it was that simple, everybody would be doing it. On the less grubby parts (the tank in this case), it semi-worked, in that the brass was generally brighter and less tarnished than before, however is did come out rather blotchy, the blotches being a pinkish colour, with the casting being particularly pink. The cab, running plate and smokebox were particularly dirty and tarnished after sitting round on my bench for a few months now with very little action. The tropical climate here doesn't help either. These parts showed very little improvement after being in the same cleaning session as the tank, which was disappointing.... I didn't think to take any photos before cleaning unfortunately, but these two are straight out of the ultrasonic vial/water mix. The blotchy pink areas can clearly be seen. Still needed a good polish with the usual grades of Gariflex blocks/scratch pen/fine grade wet&dry to get it really looking good... Although the tank didn't come out too badly the rest of the loco, which is really quite grubby, showed very little improvement. Back to the drawing board with the next idea! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 4 hours ago, jdb82 said: For some time now, I've been looking to cut corners on cleaning the model, as I seem to (need to) spend a disproportionate amount of time cleaning and polishing the model instead of actually building the thing! I look at the work of PAD, Mick and Richard from Finney7 and many others on this forum and stand in awe of how clean and shiny their models always are. I suppose what I should be doing is scrubbing it down with soap and water, followed by a toothbrushing with Viakal or similar, followed by another rinse and a blow with the hair drier after each and every session. In reality, all I either have time for, or can muster the enthusiasm for, is a quick scrub with washing up liquid to prevent the green monster from the flux appearing. So today I tried a little experiment. I have an ultrasonic cleaner, which is great for removing grime, but not tarnish. I have Viakal, which is great for brightening up the brass. I thought mixing (1:5ish) with water in the cleaner might do the trick. I left the parts in there for about 25 minutes at 70 degrees celsius. Really, I should have known better, as if it was that simple, everybody would be doing it. On the less grubby parts (the tank in this case), it semi-worked, in that the brass was generally brighter and less tarnished than before, however is did come out rather blotchy, the blotches being a pinkish colour, with the casting being particularly pink. The cab, running plate and smokebox were particularly dirty and tarnished after sitting round on my bench for a few months now with very little action. The tropical climate here doesn't help either. These parts showed very little improvement after being in the same cleaning session as the tank, which was disappointing.... I didn't think to take any photos before cleaning unfortunately, but these two are straight out of the ultrasonic vial/water mix. The blotchy pink areas can clearly be seen. Still needed a good polish with the usual grades of Gariflex blocks/scratch pen/fine grade wet&dry to get it really looking good... Although the tank didn't come out too badly the rest of the loco, which is really quite grubby, showed very little improvement. Back to the drawing board with the next idea! I live by the Amazon, not many places as humid. I also have trouble with tarnishing. I also found cleaning with glass, brass and steel brushes, sticks with wet and dry on them. And a scrub with scouring powder, well rinsed and dried. Only using vyakal if really needed. But the biggest thing I found was to keep it all in a cardboard box, shoe box or similar. That seemed to help more than anything. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 6 hours ago, N15class said: I live by the Amazon, not many places as humid. I also have trouble with tarnishing. I also found cleaning with glass, brass and steel brushes, sticks with wet and dry on them. And a scrub with scouring powder, well rinsed and dried. Only using vyakal if really needed. But the biggest thing I found was to keep it all in a cardboard box, shoe box or similar. That seemed to help more than anything. Wouldn't have thought about a cardboard box....I guess it will absorb some of the moisture. However i'm coming to the conclusion that really there are no shortcuts and the best option is to roll up the sleeves and get the elbow grease out :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 On 09/02/2019 at 12:35, jdb82 said: For some time now, I've been looking to cut corners on cleaning the model, as I seem to (need to) spend a disproportionate amount of time cleaning and polishing the model instead of actually building the thing! I look at the work of PAD, Mick and Richard from Finney7 and many others on this forum and stand in awe of how clean and shiny their models always are. I suppose what I should be doing is scrubbing it down with soap and water, followed by a toothbrushing with Viakal or similar, followed by another rinse and a blow with the hair drier after each and every session. In reality, all I either have time for, or can muster the enthusiasm for, is a quick scrub with washing up liquid to prevent the green monster from the flux appearing. I've seen other people write about cleaning up parts and flux turning things green but I have never had a problem with parts turning green or anything like that at all. What flux are you using? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ruston said: I've seen other people write about cleaning up parts and flux turning things green but I have never had a problem with parts turning green or anything like that at all. What flux are you using? An old pot of Gaugemasters brass liquid flux - not a clue where I got it from, but it's the only pot I've got out here! Edited February 13, 2019 by jdb82 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 “Green” is associated with aggressive acid paste fluxes like Powerflo. It’s amazingly good flux, and a go-to if other things fail, but has a horrid habit of lurking in a joint, and surfacing only after the model has been painted. Probably best avoided if possible, which, if the model is cleaned regularly, the solder is clean, the iron is clean and hot, and the flux is half decent, should be 99% of the time. But just in case, the Powerflo is on my bench... best Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Decided to add a bit of weight to the boiler whilst it is still accessible. On my last trip to the UK, I brought back some white metal bars for exactly this purpose. As it's only a small loco, the kit inherently has very little natural weight to it, even after the motor is added. I therefore wanted to maximise the amount of white metal I could squeeze into the space available, and so I bent a scrap piece of brass to slightly less than the diameter of the boiler. I blocked up the ends with a couple of lollipop sticks stuck together with tape, and held everything tight with a G-clamp. Using my gas soldering iron, I melted the whitemetal and left it to cool. I was surprised by how long it look to solidify! After a bit of a trim to make it fit, I them epoxied it in place. Now to repeat the process for the other 2 sections of the boiler, and I'll probably do a couple of ingots for the tank as well. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Reminds me of making fishing weights as a teenager. 1) Borrow dad's wood bits and bore a 25mm blind hole into a block of wood. 2) Cut some old lead pipe into strips 3) Wait until mother is out for the whole afternoon 4) Find that old thick bottom pan that grandma used on the kitchen fire 5) Heat fiercely, skim off the slag and pour. Gloves would have been a good idea. Watch your eyes for spitting if the wood is less than perfectly dry. Some years ago I resurrected the technique to help balance up a G5 which suffered from the usual 0-4-4 problem. This time the work was done in the workshop with a propane torch. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 Just a quick update from this weekend..... The smokebox door has had a good polish up - there were a couple of blemishes which I filled with solder first, but the reflection means you can't really see them. After the boiler was filled with white metal, I could attach the tank. Because I modified the (cab) end of the tank, there's not much to solder it to, as it simple rests upon the half-cut boiler. The main soldering points were the bracket holding it to the smokebox, and a bent piece of scrap etch on the inside of the firebox. The injectors are also soldered to the tank and the footplate, so it should be enough to keep everything place. I made a right mess of the bracket and got solder all over the place, so quite a bit of cleaning up to do before I'm happy with it...... Still got a bit of pipework from the injectors into the cab and the clack valves. Apologies for the embarrassingly grubby nature of the cab & footplate at the moment - really must give it a proper clean soon! It is an industrial tank though - not many of them were spotless! 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 This weekend felt like I was making progress - no great leaps in terms of large obvious sections of the loco - most of those are done, but finished the various bits of pipework and rods around the front of the cab and under the tank. The injector pipework, clack valves, reversing, water rail lubrication and drain cock levers all in place, ask well as the balance pipe which runs underneath the boiler. Slightly less cluttered on the left hand side One slight faux pas, was that whist wiggling the copper wire used for the balance pipe into position, I lost grip with the tweezers, and it disappeared into the tank......... It's now rattling round in there with no access to get it out. Grrr.... I can see a bit of the back of the tank through the firebox, so will either need to drill a hole and hope I can fish it out, or 'inject' resin or glue in the hope it will stick it fast! 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 Slight floor in my wire-rescue plan......I'd forgotten that the tank has a former halfway down the tank, effectively diving it in two (see my post on 9th December - why did the post numbers disappear with the upgrade?!). Any hole I drill from the firebox end would get me into the back half of the tank, but the wire is rattling round in the front half. Not keen on taking the whole thing apart, but any ideas welcome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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