Manning Wardle L Class 0-6-0 (Agenoria Kit)

[Simond]

My preferred technique is to use 10BA screws, glued into tapped holes in the wheels. The Slaters bushes are also tapped 10BA, shortened, and screwed on with the flange to the outside, with whatever washers are necessary between them and the wheel face to stop the rods binding on the wheel boss. These look better, generally don’t bend, and don’t wander off centre setting the crank throws all wrong, but, you do need some basic workshop tools to do it, and it’s a whole bunch easier with a little lathe & a drill press.

 

In this case, I hope the suggestion I have made will pull the screw straight, and sort the problem out. If not, bending the screw may well improve matters, but in either case I would absolutely fix the bush to the wheel, and let the rod rotate around the bush. The bush should not turn on the thread of the screw. Loosening the nut will allow slack exactly where it is least required, and I do not recommend it.

 

I’d also avoid threadlock. If you need to strip the chassis for any reason, it will almost certainly prevent the nut being removed, and lead to a broken screw. The merest trace of evo stik or similar, or a touch of paint will stop the nut unscrewing, but I doubt very much that it would be needed if the nut and bush are tight to the wheel.

 

Best

Simon

[jdb82]

Michael, Simon, thanks for the advice! Seems like my panic may have been a little premature. As you correctly identified, once the bushes were put on, they seemed to straighten up the crankpins enough to do the job. I've filed down the bushes so they protrude through the coupling rods ever so slightly to give a little working clearance, without introducing any slop. 

 

 

I fitted the gearbox (Slaters) and motor (Mashima 26mmx16mm), wired it up and gave it a test. Given the crankpins haven't been glued, nuts not finally secured, no oiling of bearings or running in, I was pretty surprised how nicely it ran! 

 

https://youtu.be/ryOrUXRjW7M

 

Now lets hope it all still works after I've secured crankpins, bushes, nuts etc.....

Must remember not to fix the nuts until after I've painted it ;-)

[Simond]

I’d say you’ve nailed that. It appears to run very smoothly.

 

Given it’s rigid, you can support it with the wheels off the track, and let it run in, with a drop of oil on each bearing - axles and rods - for a few hours, whilst you get on with other parts of the model. I’d be very surprised if the nuts even try to come off. If they do, there’s something wrong, so fix that, rather than hide it with threadlock!

 

Best

Simon

[jdb82]

I’d say you’ve nailed that. It appears to run very smoothly.

 

Given it’s rigid, you can support it with the wheels off the track, and let it run in, with a drop of oil on each bearing - axles and rods - for a few hours, whilst you get on with other parts of the model. I’d be very surprised if the nuts even try to come off. If they do, there’s something wrong, so fix that, rather than hide it with threadlock!

 

Best

Simon

 

 

Is it worth waiting until after I've painted it to run it in? Just wondered whether taking it all apart would undo all the good work of running it in!

[Simond]

No, I don’t think so. You can run it in now, and then clean everything to paint it.

 

When you come to do that, I’d suggest you get an egg box or something, to keep the wheels and coupling rod bushes in, so you can reassemble them in the same places as they are now. You’ll find that the nice clean oil (I use beard trimmer oil) you put on now will be quite mucky after a bit of running in, so cleaning all that off, and re-oiling once it’s painted, will be a good thing, I think.

 

Best

Simon

[Regularity]

As Simon says, very smooth running.

 

But your workbench is disgustingly tidy!

 

I have used nail varnish (nicked from the missus) to lock crank pin nuts in place. You can get clear, or if the rods were painted, usually something to match.

[jdb82]

As Simon says, very smooth running.

 

But your workbench is disgustingly tidy!

 

I have used nail varnish (nicked from the missus) to lock crank pin nuts in place. You can get clear, or if the rods were painted, usually something to match.

 

 

Haha, can't say the workbench looks like that all the time, but I don't like working in too much of a mess - tidy bench, tidy mind! 

 

Next, I need to make all the brake hangers and sand pipes, before painting gets underway 

Edited January 29, 2018 by jdb82

[jdb82]

Not had much time to get to the workbench this week - an inspection at work, and a calling to a badminton court have gotten in the way. I have managed to make a start on laminating the brake hangers and blocks. I seem to be painfully slow when in comes to laminating and cleaning up. Not working to any deadline though, so can take my time and enjoy it. Although laminating is not my favourite aspect of building! Maybe I'll see if I can find some castings for the next kit I have lined up ;-)

 

Reassuringly, this looks far better in the flesh than on camera. I'll blame my dodgy photography skills. 5 more to go.

 

 

 

[PhilMortimer]

Nice smooth running chassis there. Well done!

 

As Simon says, run it in now whilst working on other parts of the loco. A few hours running will help enormously. When you dismantle it for painting, clean it thoroughly and then place some rolled up kitchen towel or simmilar through the bearings to prevent paint getting into the bearing surfaces and jamming everything up. You may need to carefully clean all bearing surfaces on re-assembly to regain smooth running. This isn't unusual.and it isn't unusual (but is annoying as heck) to find a free-running chassis becomes a little lame after painting. Careful cleaning up will restore performance.

Edited February 2, 2018 by PhilMortimer

[Simond]

Yep, agree with Phil here.

 

Quickie for cleaning wheel bearings after painting. Line up three pairs of cotton bud sticks and a thimble full of acetone on the workbench. Immediately after painting, before it starts to harden, dip a bud in acetone, whip it through a bearing, reverse, and poke the other end through to remove any residue, repeat 5 times...

 

You can then take another cotton bud stick, dip it in oil, and poke it through to oil the bearings before dropping the axles back in.

 

The trick is finding the cotton buds that don’t shed fibres. Doesn’t matter here, but when you’re painting...

 

Best

Simon

[Regularity]

Oil the bearings (a quick wipe with a cotton bud) before painting, and less paint will stick.

Obviously you still need to clean and re-oil afterwards.

[jdb82]

Nice smooth running chassis there. Well done!

 

As Simon says, run it in now whilst working on other parts of the loco. A few hours running will help enormously. When you dismantle it for painting, clean it thoroughly and then place some rolled up kitchen towel or simmilar through the bearings to prevent paint getting into the bearing surfaces and jamming everything up. You may need to carefully clean all bearing surfaces on re-assembly to regain smooth running. This isn't unusual.and it isn't unusual (but is annoying as heck) to find a free-running chassis becomes a little lame after painting. Careful cleaning up will restore performance.

  

Yep, agree with Phil here.

Quickie for cleaning wheel bearings after painting. Line up three pairs of cotton bud sticks and a thimble full of acetone on the workbench. Immediately after painting, before it starts to harden, dip a bud in acetone, whip it through a bearing, reverse, and poke the other end through to remove any residue, repeat 5 times...

You can then take another cotton bud stick, dip it in oil, and poke it through to oil the bearings before dropping the axles back in.

The trick is finding the cotton buds that don’t shed fibres. Doesn’t matter here, but when you’re painting...

Best

Simon

  

Oil the bearings (a quick wipe with a cotton bud) before painting, and less paint will stick.

Obviously you still need to clean and re-oil afterwards.

Thanks chaps! Painting is getting closer, although At the speed I’m currently going, it’s probably another two or three weeks away, even bough there’s not really that much left to do. Got a couple of days off work for Chinese New Year later this month, so if I can get the last bits of construction done then I’ll be happy.

 

For cleaning everything up before painting, is it worth getting an ultrasonic cleaner do you think? I haven’t found any here in Brunei, although I can order one and get it delivered here, but postage costs will be a bit of a !

[Simond]

I have one, which I use regularly during the build of anything brass. They’re very good as getting the crud off, and flux & other stuff out of crevices & so on, but they’ll never leave you with a model that looks polished. If you do get one, make sure it’s a biggee! It’s a question of how much use it will get.

 

There was a discussion about chassis jigs on the other channel, and I was saying that I thought they were an unnecessary expense - the proponent argued that whilst they were not absolutely necessary, he would never be without. It transpired that he built as many locos in a year as I have in my lifetime...

 

I got something very like this - about 350mm long inside.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Heater-Timer-Cleaning-Bath-Watches-Jwellery-Tank-Industry/401477319123?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D0537675ac8c444458894633dfb96550a%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D173052038610%26itm%3D401477319123&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598

 

Best

Simon

[jdb82]

I have one, which I use regularly during the build of anything brass. They’re very good as getting the crud off, and flux & other stuff out of crevices & so on, but they’ll never leave you with a model that looks polished. If you do get one, make sure it’s a biggee! It’s a question of how much use it will get.

 

There was a discussion about chassis jigs on the other channel, and I was saying that I thought they were an unnecessary expense - the proponent argued that whilst they were not absolutely necessary, he would never be without. It transpired that he built as many locos in a year as I have in my lifetime...

 

I got something very like this - about 350mm long inside.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Heater-Timer-Cleaning-Bath-Watches-Jwellery-Tank-Industry/401477319123?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D0537675ac8c444458894633dfb96550a%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D173052038610%26itm%3D401477319123&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598

 

Best

Simon

 

I was thinking of getting a 6L one which is way bigger than I need for the Hudswell, but hopefully I'll build something a little larger in the future, and I don't want to have to buy another one! Like yours, I think its about 30cm or so long. It's one of those things that I will tell myself not to buy one until I move back to the UK (whenever that will be!), but will probably end up getting one now any way ;-)

[jdb82]

All 6 brakes & hangers laminated, filed, cleaned up and ready to go.

 

 

[jdb82]

Just a thought on the brake hangers.....the blocks are obviously going to sit pretty close to the wheels, which is going make taking the wheels off/putting them back on a bit tricky to do without damaging the hangers and bending a wire somewhere. Do you think it's worth me not soldering the top wire (that they hang from) that stretches across the frames yet? That way I can take them off, paint them by hand and glue it all in place after I've painted it and put the wheels back on? Or am I fussing over something that's really not a problem?!

[Regularity]

That’s what I have done in the past. Anything to help with simplifying painting is a Good Thing.

[Simond]

Try this;

 

Solder the hangers to to cross beams, and add the linkages. Either solder wires to the tops of the hangers, and tubes to the chassis, or vice versa, to produce a “snap-fit” for the whole assembly. This will help painting, and any future servicing.

 

You’ll probably have to use the chassis itself as the assembly jig.

 

Whilst you’re at it, mix some araldite, and glue Rizla cigarette paper to the back, and edge of the shoes. Trim it when the glue is set. Prevents short circuits.

 

Best

Simon

Edited February 4, 2018 by Simond

[jdb82]

Brake hangers now installed. Clearly I haven't yet discovered an easy set of working methods for this - I found it very difficult to hold everything in place, straight, in line with everything and the same distance from the wheels, without everything waggling around and moving. To compound this, the (what I assume is ) 0.7mm nickel silver wire that came with the kit was very reluctant to solder, and I end up with dry joints all over the place that probably need redoing. I think I wasn't holding the iron in place for long enough to provide enough heat, for fear of moving everything out of line. Still, it doesn't look too bad as long as you don't go looking too closely from the underside ;-) I will sort it all out to make it 'good' at some stage!

 

 

Not too much left to go now - sand pipes, steps and a significant amount of polishing and cleaning to prepare it for painting.

 

Edit: Oh, and pickups....... forgotten about them! 

Edited February 8, 2018 by jdb82

[Guest Isambarduk]

... the (what I assume is ) 0.7mm nickel silver wire that came with the kit was very reluctant to solder, and I end up with dry joints all over the place that probably need redoing.

 

Are you using 145deg solder? If not, this would be a great help here, and there would be far less risk of unsoldering parts of the frames.   David

[jdb82]

Are you using 145deg solder? If not, this would be a great help here, and there would be far less risk of unsoldering parts of the frames.   David

 

 

Yep, I'm using 145deg solder. I do have some low melt solder too, so maybe I solute try that.

[Simond]

Contrary as always, I almost never use different solders. “Just be quick”... well it works, mostly.

 

I tried to suggest, bu5 explained badly in my previous post, it’s much easier to solder rods/stiff wire through the frames, and solder on short lengths of tube as spacers (and cut away the bit in between the frames as needed) to provide pivots for your brake hangers.

 

You don’t need to solder the hangers to the pivots, but you do solder the stretchers between pairs of hangers. This forms a square-ish “U” which you can then clip on and off. The brake linkage is the bit that keeps them all at the right angle and really close to the wheels.

 

Easier fro painting, service, etc.

 

Best

Simon

[jdb82]

Contrary as always, I almost never use different solders. “Just be quick”... well it works, mostly.

 

I tried to suggest, bu5 explained badly in my previous post, it’s much easier to solder rods/stiff wire through the frames, and solder on short lengths of tube as spacers (and cut away the bit in between the frames as needed) to provide pivots for your brake hangers.

 

You don’t need to solder the hangers to the pivots, but you do solder the stretchers between pairs of hangers. This forms a square-ish “U” which you can then clip on and off. The brake linkage is the bit that keeps them all at the right angle and really close to the wheels.

 

Easier fro painting, service, etc.

 

Best

Simon

 

 

Hi Simon,

Yep, I'm still planning on following your advice, although I do need to try and find some brass tube of a suitable size somewhere - the only length I have with me here in Brunei is a little too wide. I'll cut the top wire to make them removable - these haven't been soldered to the chassis frames yet. As you say, the brake linkages are keeping everything at the correct angle - it was putting all that lot together that I was finding difficult! 

Once I have the tubes in place, what stops the whole brake assembly from sliding around side to side? Plug the tubes up with something for the top wire to push against maybe?

[jdb82]

Sand pipes and boxes now soldered on - not cleaned them up yet. Now going to strip the chassis down ready for painting.

 

[Simond]

I need a diagram! Can’t do it on the iPad. I’ll try to explain;

 

Put the wires through the frames so they are sticking out further than the hangers will.

Cut the thin tube to fit between frames and back of the hangers, These will be more-or-less the thickness of the wheels in length. Depends on clearance etc.

Solder this lot up solid.

Cut away the wires between the frames if needed

Carefully trim back the sticking out wires so they are long enough for the hangers to hang on, but with not much more than the thickness of the hangers sticking out past the end of the tubes.

This provides the pivots.

 

Then solder the hangers to the stretcher beams. They should clip on and off the pivots easily, and pivot fore-and-aft easily too. But they won’t go side to side. You can lean the brake shoes against the wheels whils the solder the beams on, but but if you do, make sure you clean any flux splashes off your wheels or the dreaded rust monster starts...

 

Finally, clip all the hanger assemblies onto the chassis and solder the brake pull rods to the beams. adjust the clearance to the wheels by ensuring the rod that connects to the cylinder (or handbrake) crank is the right length. You might have to arrange this to clip in too.

 

HTH

Simon