For those interested in tanks and armoured fighting vehicles

[KeithMacdonald]

Perhaps this should be in the Jokes thread, but Al Beeb says it's true, so here you go:

 

Quote

WW2 Panther tank seized from pensioner's cellar - Police in northern Germany have seized a World War Two tank which was being kept in a pensioner's cellar. - The Panther tank was removed from the 78-year-old's house in the town of Heikendorf, along with a variety of other military equipment, including a torpedo and an anti-aircraft gun, Der Tagesspiegel website reports. It wasn't an easy job to get it all out - the army had to be called in with modern-day tanks to haul the Panther from its cellar. It took about 20 soldiers almost nine hours to extract the tank - which was without its tracks - and push it onto a low-loader, the report says.

 

 

As if that wasn't enough...

 

Quote

The man had also been keeping an anti-aircraft gun in his basement

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-33381772

[Barry O]

Challenger 2 with 8 rounds fired in 58 seconds..8 kills..

[Barry O]

The rounds going down the range on Binden range.. its near the end of the video.. 

 

Not far from where Lawrence of Arabia died by the way..

 

Bas

Edited February 22, 2023 by Barry O

[Ben B]

7 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Perhaps this should be in the Jokes thread, but Al Beeb says it's true, so here you go:

 

 

 

As if that wasn't enough...

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-33381772

 

Blimey... and my wife complains sometimes about me hoarding cardboard, scrap wood and packing foam.

 

Interesting they've been siezed, I wonder if they're actually live/operational? The flak gun in particular looks in well-maintained condition.

[Kickstart]

2 hours ago, Ben B said:

 

Blimey... and my wife complains sometimes about me hoarding cardboard, scrap wood and packing foam.

 

Interesting they've been siezed, I wonder if they're actually live/operational? The flak gun in particular looks in well-maintained condition.

 

It was 8 years ago, but from other reports it was hardly hidden away as he was known to drive it around locally.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[jjb1970]

The Panther was a splendid looking tank, possibly the best looking tank of the war.

[sir douglas]

except that later in the war suffered from brittle armour due to trying to make the plates quicker and cheaper while also running out of certain ingredients

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbBg509os2E&ab_channel=ArmouredArchives

[jjb1970]

The Panther is arguably the most over-rated tank of WW2. Brilliant in some respects but the mechanical reliability was poor, final drives very problematic and a major task to change, the gunner was reliant on the commander to bring him on target as he didn't have any wider field optic and some questionable ergonomics. The engine was de-rated to improve reliability too. And despite superb frontal armour when properly made the side armour was vulnerable to anti-tank rifles (hence side skirts). The interleaved wheels were a bit questionable too, and track life poor.

However, the gun was outstanding, when it worked it had good mobility and frontal protection excellent. For many years it was venerated and tanks like the Sherman derided, in recent years there's been some re-evaluation. For all the Sherman wasn't perfect it was a very reliable tank, ergonomics were good (statistics indicate it was a very survivable tank if hit thanks to ease of getting out) and armour was better than sometimes presented. The main weakness was probably the 75mm dual purpose gun, but that was arguably more useful for most combat use and the later 76mm and 17 pound armed variants were very effective tank killers.

[spikey]

The Lady Wife reports that one of the German news sites now reckons that the Fatherland is going to ship 18 x Leopard 2A6 to Ukraine.  There's also talk of some Swedish A5 plus some A4 from somewhere or other.  Are any of these variants likely to be of much use to Ukraine?  

 

Also it would appear that the Swedes are intent upon providing Hawk and Iris-T air defence systems.  Might that cause any concern amongst the foe?

[alastairq]

An observation by on of the [UK] commentators on a recent Forces News video concerning the current, ongoing training of Ukrainian Soldiers on Challenger 2

The folks being trained [and who will likely return to Ukraine to train others?] were noted to already be trained ''tankees'' [on Ukraine's current, tank inventory.

Thus it appears they are finding the training much easier than a 'raw recruit', so to speak.

Especially as they already have war-fighting experience.

Apparently [they say, via an interpreter] they find Challenger to be a lot more useful that the older[soviet-style] stuff being used currently.

 

Good stuff, I say!

[Barry O]

Well the Leopard 1s being reworked by KMW will have a similar age adversary.. the Soviets are digging out their very old BTR 60s.. a good burstnof half inch machine gun bullets could cause damage.. to both of these vehicles..

 

Baz

[jjb1970]

I hear that Ajax is saved, we can all rejoice and embrace the return of the armoured vehicle prodigal son! Apparently they've fitted bigger seat cushions and will give occupants ear defenders to cure the vibration and noise issues. Splendid.

[peanuts]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I hear that Ajax is saved, we can all rejoice and embrace the return of the armoured vehicle prodigal son! Apparently they've fitted bigger seat cushions and will give occupants ear defenders to cure the vibration and noise issues. Splendid.

Indeed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64763195?xtor=AL-72-[partner]-[bbc.news.twitter]-[headline]-[news]-[bizdev]-[isapi]&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_format=link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_origin=BBCNews&at_link_id=B6765282-B4B4-11ED-91B4-CD924744363C&at_campaign_type=owned&at_medium=social&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_type=web_link

[Barry O]

3 hours ago, peanuts said:

Indeed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64763195?xtor=AL-72-[partner]-[bbc.news.twitter]-[headline]-[news]-[bizdev]-[isapi]&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_format=link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_origin=BBCNews&at_link_id=B6765282-B4B4-11ED-91B4-CD924744363C&at_campaign_type=owned&at_medium=social&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_type=web_link

About as much use as a chocolate tea pot... do the crew can't hear anything.. but the noise of this recce vehicle can be heard for miles.. and more seat springs and thicker squabs.. How long will they last... not very long!

 

The MoD should have chucked this back to GDLS and asked for the money back plus all the money GDLS have had to "build " this in Eales ( as in take turret out of box, take Hull out of another.. fasten one to the other.. Oh look we have built an overweight noisy piece of carp! My inside info is they aren't even very good at this level...

 

Baz

Edited February 25, 2023 by Barry O

[jjb1970]

What would government regulators say if someone designed a train or bus vehicle which had excessive vibration and noise and proposed 'solving' the issue with springier seats and giving people ear defenders? (rhetorical question).

[spikey]

15 hours ago, spikey said:

The Lady Wife reports that one of the German news sites now reckons that the Fatherland is going to ship 18 x Leopard 2A6 to Ukraine.  There's also talk of some Swedish A5 plus some A4 from somewhere or other.  Are any of these variants likely to be of much use to Ukraine?  

 

Also it would appear that the Swedes are intent upon providing Hawk and Iris-T air defence systems.  Might that cause any concern amongst the foe?

 

Two of us here still wondering ... 🙂

[jjb1970]

Any SAM battery will cause problems, but I'm not sure the Russian air forces will be overly concerned about the Hawk. Iris-T is probably much more dangerous but has a relatively short range. Neither is as powerful as the S300 missiles that formerly made up much of their SAM capability.

[jjb1970]

For our experts, is there any real advantage in the case telescope 40mm gun in Ajax over the older 40mm Bofors in the CV90?

[Barry O]

14 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

For our experts, is there any real advantage in the case telescope 40mm gun in Ajax over the older 40mm Bofors in the CV90?

Easier to use, fits in the turret eadily which a normal bofors is not easy to do and lots of ammo can be stored and its supposed to be better bang per buck..

 

Baz

 

[Ohmisterporter]

Earlier references to the Churchill reminded me that a textile mill I worked at had a reasonably well equipped workshop with belt driven lathes, pillar drill, and vertical milling machine., all driven from a line shaft. During the war someone from a Ministry of Something or other came round to assess all such workshops to see what they could produce for the War Effort. Upshot was that batches of blank billets would arrive at t'mill to turned into wheels for Churchill tanks. Other components were also produced wherever possible so there was never a blockage in the system waiting for machine time for various parts. I imagine things have changed somewhat. The mills have nearly all gone for a start.

[alastairq]

Interesting.

 

 

 

Horses for courses....

 

Interesting points regarding keeping production entirely at home?

 

Something perhaps the UK has lost sight of?

[burgundy]

8 hours ago, alastairq said:

 

Interesting points regarding keeping production entirely at home?

 

Something perhaps the UK has lost sight of?

Have a look at successive iterations of Defence Industrial Strategy papers. Self sufficiency has not been lost sight of. It just has to be balanced against the cost, when you are buying penny packet numbers of everything.

In reality, I doubt that UK has been totally self sufficient for a very long time - if ever. 

Best wishes 

Eric

[jjb1970]

Japan relies on the USA to equip much of its air force, many of its warships have locally built Rolls Royce gas turbines as well as various US supplied combat systems. So although much of its army is supplied with domestic equipment it's certainly not the case that the JSDF as a whole is Japanese equipped.

 

Two other pertinent points are that Japan still has a large heavy industry sector as well as an extremely highly developed advanced electronic technology sector (which still manages to compete, although it has lost a lot of market share to South Korea, China and increasingly to other emerging economies), and they have a loose canon on the doorstep (the DPRK) and live next door to a much larger and more powerful country they increasingly view as an adversary, not to mention they still have a real estate dispute with Russia over the Kuril islands. So they probably see more reason to spend on defence, and have the heavy industry and advanced technology expertise to do a lot more at home.

 

Interestingly, they're partnering with the UK and others to develop next generation fighter aircraft technology and missiles.

[Barry O]

10 hours ago, burgundy said:

Have a look at successive iterations of Defence Industrial Strategy papers. Self sufficiency has not been lost sight of. It just has to be balanced against the cost, when you are buying penny packet numbers of everything.

In reality, I doubt that UK has been totally self sufficient for a very long time - if ever. 

Best wishes 

Eric

So it has left us with an order for 800+ vehicles which are very late and will never do the job they were bought for properly, having to be "allowed" by Germany to use our aircraft and vehicles in wars.. not exactly a good place to be in....

 

If the MoD had actually positively helped to sell our tanks etc rather than charging a very large amount for industry to be allowed to do so, we would not have been building penny packets...

 

Baz

[burgundy]

40 minutes ago, Barry O said:

So it has left us with an order for 800+ vehicles which are very late and will never do the job they were bought for properly, having to be "allowed" by Germany to use our aircraft and vehicles in wars.. not exactly a good place to be in....

 

If the MoD had actually positively helped to sell our tanks etc rather than charging a very large amount for industry to be allowed to do so, we would not have been building penny packets...

 

Baz

Twas ever thus. After WW1, Vickers paid Krupp royalty fees for the fuses in artillery ammunition that we had spent four years delivering in quantity in the general direction of the German army. 

The commercial exploitation levy on products developed under MOD contracts has always been quite clearly prescribed. Even MOD can work out that a reduced percentage of something is better than 10% of nothing!

Best wishes 

Eric