RMweb Premium figworthy Posted October 14, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2023 4 hours ago, jjb1970 said: Further to sending Leopard 1 tanks to Ukraine and offloading junk I read something about a bloke in Belgium with a shed load of Kurassier tanks he wants to ship to Ukraine. The Kurassier was pretty much a French AMX13 turret on an Austrian chassis. The armour is paper thin for a tank and the 105mm gun outmatched. The question might be what use he expects them to be put to in a theatre like that which is dangerous for the most modern, well protected and powerful tanks let alone antiquated light tanks which were withdrawn years ago. If I was cynical (which of course I am not) I might think he wants to invoice the Belgian government or EC $$$$$$$$$$$s for his old tat which they'd then donate. Decoys ? Park them somewhere near the front, and tempt Vlad and co into blowing them up instead of the better kit. Adrian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted October 14, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2023 Not even good enough to act as decoys.. Baz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 There are reports that 31 Abrams tanks and their Ukrainian crews have arrived in Ukraine. Difficult to imagine how so few could be effectively deployed over such a long front. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted October 20, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2023 Armoured fist groups.. like CR2 has been used elsewhere.. Baz 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium The White Rabbit Posted October 20, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2023 To quote a certain General (admittedly pre-tank era) talking about troop deployments, the aim is not to stop smuggling... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted October 21, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2023 There appears to be a proliferation of anti-drone and diving missile defensive measures for armoured vehicles. Not just in Ukraine, bar armour cages and mess arrangements are being adopted more widely. And there seems to be a lot of work to develop active drone defences. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted November 20, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2023 Saw this in one of those clickbait links (it clearly worked...), may be of interest: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-faces-huge-hurdle-in-challenger-3-tank-upgrades/ Something that struck me again wasn't so much Challenger 3 potential problems (I really don't know anything much about C3 other than that remanufacturing old stuff is always a bit of a nightmare as you can find anything once you start opening the donors up) is the steady loss in size of the army. Artillery has re-asserted its importance in Ukraine, as well as the importance of size. Decades of asymetric warfare and a seeming belief in our own marketing spiel for certain technologies has led much of the Western world down a path of small, very highly trained and expensively equipped armies but without the critical mass that Ukraine is reminded us is still important in anything like a peer - peer war. 4 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted November 20, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2023 3 hours ago, jjb1970 said: Saw this in one of those clickbait links (it clearly worked...), may be of interest: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-faces-huge-hurdle-in-challenger-3-tank-upgrades/ Something that struck me again wasn't so much Challenger 3 potential problems (I really don't know anything much about C3 other than that remanufacturing old stuff is always a bit of a nightmare as you can find anything once you start opening the donors up) is the steady loss in size of the army. Artillery has re-asserted its importance in Ukraine, as well as the importance of size. Decades of asymetric warfare and a seeming belief in our own marketing spiel for certain technologies has led much of the Western world down a path of small, very highly trained and expensively equipped armies but without the critical mass that Ukraine is reminded us is still important in anything like a peer - peer war. It's got even bigger hurdles.. a bit of a "understanding technologies" gap.. as in CR2 had engineers who had a strong grip on the technologies that were required.. not so good now from an informal discussion with someone involved recently.. Baz 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnefoxile Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Sorry for dragging this thread away from discussing the Modern Army but I came across this YouTube Channel the other day, https://www.youtube.com/@MrHewes this chap restores Military Vehicles, well brings them back to life more like and seems to have a hearty collection of Chieftains, Centurions and a couple of their derivatives. Regards Neal. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted November 28, 2023 Author Share Posted November 28, 2023 Recently in Forbes was this article about the poor upgrade of T-72 tanks for the Russian army. It reads like there were budget restrictions that have led to cost cutting upgrades on the cheap. Sound familiar? https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/11/27/failed-modernization-means-russias-main-combat-tank-is-a-lemon/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 Think defence blog has an article about "Nellie", a trenching/tunnelling machine from WW2. Whilst not really an armoured vehicle I thought it is well worth a read of something most will never have heard off. Hope you find this interesting. https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2023/08/winston-churchill-and-nellie-the-trenching-machine/ 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Somebody did a video about that a year or 2 ago but i cant find it now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 This came on another forum, a rail mounted M3 supposedly in France 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 From UKDJ this article about defence spending in general and Ajax in particular does not explain where £4 billion has gone, just that it has gone with little to show for it so far. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/over-4bn-spent-on-ajax-vehicles-with-just-44-delivered/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 On 26/01/2024 at 22:47, sir douglas said: This came on another forum, a rail mounted M3 supposedly in France IIRC, it was in the vicinity of Chateauroux; the photo I saw, on a French site, had more of the armour plating remaining in the cab area. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 13 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13 36 minutes ago, Ohmisterporter said: From UKDJ this article about defence spending in general and Ajax in particular does not explain where £4 billion has gone, just that it has gone with little to show for it so far. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/over-4bn-spent-on-ajax-vehicles-with-just-44-delivered/ For all that Ajax has been a debacle of the first order it's a bit rich of the opposition to throw stones given their own record on defence procurement is every bit as shambolic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 13 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13 39 minutes ago, Ohmisterporter said: From UKDJ this article about defence spending in general and Ajax in particular does not explain where £4 billion has gone, just that it has gone with little to show for it so far. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/over-4bn-spent-on-ajax-vehicles-with-just-44-delivered/ A surprise? Not.. rule 1 never pay a contractor for an untested vehicle in one big go. The vehicle is still not right and is far too large as a recce vehicle! as shown on a trial shown on TV Baz 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 13 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13 In some ways the wheeled bit is worse. We were part of the Boxer program, left, went down several blind avenues and then selected the GD Piranha only to do a u-turn and rejoin Boxer having wasted a decade. Not to mention the Warrior upgrade which went the same way as the Nimrod MRA4. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 On 13/02/2024 at 10:53, jjb1970 said: In some ways the wheeled bit is worse. Like Ajax? Quote A staggering sum of over £4 billion has been spent on the Ajax armoured vehicle programme, yet only 44 of these have been delivered to the British Army, according to findings revealed by the Labour Party. Labour’s analysis highlights what they call a significant discrepancy in the programme’s budget usage, with over 70% of the allocated funds spent while only achieving a 7% delivery rate of the 589 vehicles ordered since the contract’s inception in 2014. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/over-4bn-spent-on-ajax-vehicles-with-just-44-delivered/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 26 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26 On 25/02/2024 at 01:25, KeithMacdonald said: Like Ajax? https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/over-4bn-spent-on-ajax-vehicles-with-just-44-delivered/ Ajax has wheels but those carry thrctracks. The UK Defencebindustry had a good spot on Boxer then we were told to getboutnofbit.. no Armybrequirement for wheeled vehicles.. As for Ajax, it is the wrong vehicle for the task itnisvtrying to do.. very large for acrecce vehicle, carp chassis ( which can defeat the Laws of Physics) turret which looks so wrong protection wise and .. that gun.. But it meant work for Wales.. Baz 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 26 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26 I genuinely wonder what sort of armed forces we'd have if the defence budget was efficiently spent to good effect. A bit like the NHS and railways, it's easy to complain about inadequate budgets but why would you give anyone more money if they don't use the money they have sensibly? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exet1095 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, Barry O said: Ajax has wheels but those carry thrctracks. The UK Defencebindustry had a good spot on Boxer then we were told to getboutnofbit.. no Armybrequirement for wheeled vehicles.. As for Ajax, it is the wrong vehicle for the task itnisvtrying to do.. very large for acrecce vehicle, carp chassis ( which can defeat the Laws of Physics) turret which looks so wrong protection wise and .. that gun.. But it meant work for Wales.. Baz Ajax is tracked; Boxer is wheeled. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 26 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26 6 hours ago, exet1095 said: Ajax is tracked; Boxer is wheeled. Paul Read my post.. yes Ajax has tracks.. these are held up by wheels. Boxer was always wheeled.. MoD wanted Piranha (and selectedbit) as GDLS were flavour of the month.. then it went very quiet.. Rather than the Ajax solution a CV90 would have been better but BAe loused that up.. How do I know?? Baz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exet1095 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, Barry O said: Read my post.. yes Ajax has tracks.. these are held up by wheels. Boxer was always wheeled.. MoD wanted Piranha (and selectedbit) as GDLS were flavour of the month.. then it went very quiet.. Rather than the Ajax solution a CV90 would have been better but BAe loused that up.. How do I know?? Baz Your post wasn’t clearly written, otherwise I would not have offered my clarification. I cannot comment on procurement, as I’m still liable to change roadwheels… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, exet1095 said: Your post wasn’t clearly written, otherwise I would not have offered my clarification. I cannot comment on procurement, as I’m still liable to change roadwheels… To give Barry the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he was inside a Ajax or a Boxer, trying to type while it rattled and thumped along a test track, and he was being bounced around a fair bit? 13 hours ago, Barry O said: Ajax has wheels but those carry thrctracks. The UK Defencebindustry had a good spot on Boxer then we were told to getboutnofbit.. no Armybrequirement for wheeled vehicles.. As for Ajax, it is the wrong vehicle for the task itnisvtrying to do.. very large for acrecce vehicle, carp chassis ( which can defeat the Laws of Physics) turret which looks so wrong protection wise and .. that gun.. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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