Good RTR Castle?

[Phil47gwr]

Not sure if this is the right forum but... What is the best currently available RTR example of a GWR Castle?

Edited October 17, 2017 by Phil47gwr

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

For OO? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6024-Hornby-castle-arriving/page-26?hl=castle&do=findComment&comment=1116626 Drool force ten seems the general opinion.

[Edwardian]

Not sure if this is the right forum but... What is the best currently available RTR example of a GWR Castle?

 

Hornby.

 

They are very good models and they cover the 2 main variants - scalloped or fluted and non-scalloped inside cylinder cases.

 

The first series of Castles, and the first Star rebuilds, had noticeably narrower scalloped/fluted cylinder cases and  'joggled' front frames (bent inward).  The Hornby models do not represent these.

 

Aside from these locomotives, the Hornby toolings seem to cover the majority of the class.   

 

Both main variants have been produced/announced in both GW and BR livery.

 

You can never have too many Castles.

 

 

[Phil47gwr]

Sorry, yes, for OO.

[County of Yorkshire]

The first series of Castles, and the first Star rebuilds, had noticeably narrower scalloped/fluted cylinder cases and  'joggled' front frames (bent inward).  The Hornby models do not represent these. Not so- Caerphilly Castle, a 2015 (?) release is the only Hornby model to date of a 4073 - 4092 castle with smaller scalloped cylinder cover. Product No. R3237; sold out at most box shifters but probably still some knocking around at other model shops or on the bay...

 

You can never have too many Castles.

Correct. I have eight on shed but no layout.

 

CoY

[Steamport Southport]

I haven't got any of the new fangled Castles. Yet.

 

But I ended up into double figures of those Hogwarts Castle things. All bought for buttons and in various states of repair. This is additional to two Airfix ones bought back in the day. I think I have four that work and I have two sets of Comet chassis to go under a couple of others.

 

Oh and a couple of those GBL partwork ones....

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Coppercap]

Hornby.

 

They are very good models and they cover the 2 main variants - scalloped or fluted and non-scalloped inside cylinder cases.

 

The first series of Castles, and the first Star rebuilds, had noticeably narrower scalloped/fluted cylinder cases and  'joggled' front frames (bent inward).  The Hornby models do not represent these.

 

Aside from these locomotives, the Hornby toolings seem to cover the majority of the class.   

 

Both main variants have been produced/announced in both GW and BR livery.

 

You can never have too many Castles.

 

 

 

Being pedantic, I think you mean the cases for the inside cylinder's valves. The cylinder cases are out of sight.

[Edwardian]

Being pedantic, I think you mean the cases for the inside cylinder's valves. The cylinder cases are out of sight.

 

Yes, I do.  Every so often, an important gets missed from my sentences.   

[Edwardian]

CoY

 

Did they tool for the narrower casing?

 

I did not know that.  Thank you.

 

The tender can always be swopped for a 4,000 gl, but does the model have an 'as preserved' anachronism in the form of a fire-iron tunnel?  

[County of Yorkshire]

Did they tool for the narrower casing?

 

I did not know that. Thank you.

 

The tender can always be swopped for a 4,000 gl, but does the model have an 'as preserved' anachronism in the form of a fire-iron tunnel?

Unfortunately, yes. It is also something that is nigh-on impossible to remove for all but the most adept modeller, such is its integral relationship to the rear splasher.

 

The 4093 - 5012 series Castles with slightly larger scalloped cylinder cover is represented by the 2009(?) release of 5011 Tintagel Castle in Great - Crest - Western green. These, however, are now like hen's teeth and frequently go on eBay for north of £100, as for a long time these were the only game in town for a GWR liveried Castle with 4,000 gallon Collett tender until this years release of Drysyllwyn Castle in the Shitbutton livery.

 

Out of interest, Tintagel Castle has no fire iron tunnel and so Hornby do have the tooling to do the scalloped cylinder cover (the larger one of 4093- 5012 series however) and no fire iron tunnel. Indeed I think it has been said on here before that there are still a lot of detail combinations that Hornby can do with their castles: Single Chimney Collett Tender in late BR livery, 4073 - 4092 series Castle with 4000 Gallon tender in any livery, or indeed with a Hawksworth tender and any BR livery.

 

Who was it who said one can never have too many castles?

 

CoY

Edited October 17, 2017 by County of Yorkshire

[Miss Prism]

I don't think Hornby ever did the joggled ('Star') frames for 4073-92 though, did they?

[County of Yorkshire]

I don't think Hornby ever did the joggled ('Star') frames for 4073-92 though, did they?

Is their Caerphilly Castle not correct then, Miss?

[Miss Prism]

I'll find the reference in Castle's thread. brb

[Edwardian]

Unfortunately, yes. It is also something that is nigh-on impossible to remove for all but the most adept modeller, such is its integral relationship to the rear splasher.

 

The 4093 - 5012 series Castles with slightly larger scalloped cylinder cover is represented by the 2009(?) release of 5011 Tintagel Castle in Great - Crest - Western green. These, however, are now like hen's teeth and frequently go on eBay for north of £100, as for a long time these were the only game in town for a GWR liveried Castle with 4,000 gallon Collett tender until this years release of Drysyllwyn Castle in the Shitbutton livery.

 

Out of interest, Tintagel Castle has no fire iron tunnel and so Hornby do have the tooling to do the scalloped cylinder cover (the larger one of 4093- 5012 series however) and no fire iron tunnel. Indeed I think it has been said on here before that there are still a lot of detail combinations that Hornby can do with their castles: Single Chimney Collett Tender in late BR livery, 4073 - 4092 series Castle with 4000 Gallon tender in any livery, or indeed with a Hawksworth tender and any BR livery.

 

Who was it who said one can never have to many castles?

 

CoY

 

Yes, that is what put me off, the impossibility of removing the fire iron tunnel.

 

I have more than one Tintagel, so, if I can find an after-market narrow cylinder valve case, I can convert to an initial series (or rebuilt Star (of which Laira had a number in the mid-'30s)).  I have had a conversation with Miss P about joggled frames, because I find them quite hard to discern in photographs from normal viewing angles, so I wonder if they would be that noticeable on a model.

 

Drysllwyn Castle will give us the later cylinder valve casing for the first time in a GW pre-War livery, which is a big improvement on the previous Dapol tooling where little fillets were stuck on to square it off.

 

No, one can't have too many Castles.

[Miss Prism]

Is their Caerphilly Castle not correct then, Miss?

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124842-pendennis-castle/

 

I do not know whether Hornby did the joggled frames.

[Phil47gwr]

My layout is DCC so I'm not sure about some of the older castles. Would you class this specimen as a a bargain, as Rails does?

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/br-4-6-0-earl-of-st-germans-4073-castle-class-br-early-with-tts-sound-JJJA29907

[Edwardian]

My layout is DCC so I'm not sure about some of the older castles. Would you class this specimen as a a bargain, as Rails does?

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/br-4-6-0-earl-of-st-germans-4073-castle-class-br-early-with-tts-sound-JJJA29907

 

Well, I haven't bought a DCC one, and I haven't bought one at all since Tintagel Castle came out, and I don't think then I paid outside the £75-90 range for any of them. 

 

So, though it seems horrifically expensive to me, I suspect it isn't and I don't know how it compares with other DCC sound BR versions on the market in price, but it seems worth shopping around.

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

Going back to the OP's original question, the best RTR OO gauge Castle really depends on your budget, standards and the intended use of the model.

 

In chronological order, the Hornby Double (later Wrenn)  'Castle' dating from the 1950s was very good by the standards of the day and they can still be obtained. They can still be obtained second hand. They are likely to appeal to someone who needs an extremely robust model or who appreciates that 'retro' feel that you get with artefacts of a bygone era. Very much a niche choice but some people clearly do value them and and they will probably run forever! The OP is using DCC so that may well rule out this model though it IS possible to convert them:-

 

http://www.scalespeed.co.uk

 

Your next choice is the Airfix Castle dating from the late 70s. They were very advanced models in their time and would probably satisfy a lot of people who are on a budget or for "train set" use. These models were later acquired by Hornby who retooled them to accommodate a superior motor. An examples of this is R2543 'Warwick Castle', several of which are available on eBay at the moment and it IS DCC ready.

 

The next step up is the retooled model dating from 2010 (I think). As discussed by others on this thread it really is the definitive model for most of us. To my mind it's the best OO gauge mass market loco ever made for the GWR enthusiast, combining an exquisite body moulding with a motor and power train capable of smooth, quiet running. No doubt I'll be shot down for rating the model so highly, but I own seven of them and they are all a joy so I base my comments on personal experience. A warning though, they are however fragile models, quite expensive and highly sort after in the second hand market. Examples of this retooled model are R2849 "Beverston Castle". One thing to be wary of: 5053 'Earl Cairns' was represented by a version of the post 2010 model AND the earlier Hornby tooling derived from the Airfix model. It is possible that the unwary might by the wrong model by mistake!

 

Moving on to the 'top of the tree' for those with VERY deep pockets, Golden Age Models produce handbuilt brass ready-to-run models of the highest quality but costing £1250 plus VAT!

 

I hope this is of help.

 

Andy.

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

My layout is DCC so I'm not sure about some of the older castles. Would you class this specimen as a a bargain, as Rails does?

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/br-4-6-0-earl-of-st-germans-4073-castle-class-br-early-with-tts-sound-JJJA29907

 

Hi again Phil,

 

The reason that Rails is describing the new "Earl of St. Germans" model as a Bargain at £149.50 is that is fitted with Hornby's DCC Sound technology called TTS. That's why it is considerable more expensive than their R3454 Drysllwyn Castle which is not so fitted. Whether you consider this to be a bargain depends on whether you consider DCC Sound generally, and the budget TTS system particularly, to be worth the extra money. Note that Hornby now sell the TTS decoders and speakers as separate items that you can retro-fit to a model not originally fitted with it.

 

Speaking personally, the fact that I am forced to pay a premium to own a loco fitted with TTS (which I don't want) is the reason why I have NOT bought this loco! There is a video on YouTube demonstrating the sound capabilities of this model if you think it might interest you:-

 

 

Andy.

[Karhedron]

Who was it who said one can never have too many castles?

Probably Charles Collett.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...The next step up is the retooled model dating from 2010 (I think). As discussed by others on this thread it really is the definitive model for most of us. To my mind it's the best OO gauge mass market loco ever made for the GWR enthusiast, combining an exquisite body moulding with a motor and power train capable of smooth, quiet running. No doubt I'll be shot down for rating the model so highly, but I own seven of them and they are all a joy so I base my comments on personal experience. A warning though, they are however fragile models...

Perhaps I have been lucky with the example I own which must be coming up seven years since going on the layout?. It's got pretty much all the detail that is practical in 4mm for a running model, and it has all remained attached. At least it has on mine, and in this it is significantly better than some similarly detailed Hornby introductions over the five years previous, where detail parts fell off in some quantity during about the first three years running, and had to be steadily reinstated. Even the Hornby Britannia of three(?) years previous which was their first introduction I felt made the grade for properly attached detail, has shed the odd component.

 

There is a defect, but it doesn't call attention to itself. Were Hornby tooling it now, the slightly undernourished boiler underside would probably be fully represented. This would be the last thing anyone is looking at with the model running though, the elegant wheel form and good representation of crosshead, slide bars and rods are what catch my eye as it smoothly glides past. It is possible to gently reposition the fall plate to the normal position, and bend a 'U' into the drawbar to close up loco and tender, draping the wire link through the 'U' so it will not snag on the track. Just add small detail of choice, real coal, and any weathering treatment desired, and it's a thing of beauty I would suggest.

[Keith George]

While models of castles are being discussed. Regarding the earlier Hornby and Airfix castles what is the best way to modify the scalloped inside cylinder valve covers so as to represent the later covers ?

 

Regards,  Keith

[Steamport Southport]

Whitemetal ones are available from Perseverance.

 

http://www.perseverancekits.co.uk/PerseveranceProductsJan2017IncVAT.pdf

 

 

 

Jason

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

While models of castles are being discussed. Regarding the earlier Hornby and Airfix castles what is the best way to modify the scalloped inside cylinder valve covers so as to represent the later covers ?

 

Regards,  Keith

 

The way Hornby did it was to attached 'filling pieces' which fitted into the scallops. You may be able to replicate that by filing down appropriate plastic rods.

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

Going back to the OP's original question, the best RTR OO gauge Castle really depends on your budget, standards and the intended use of the model.

 

In chronological order, the Hornby Double (later Wrenn)  'Castle' dating from the 1950s was very good by the standards of the day and they can still be obtained. They can still be obtained second hand. They are likely to appeal to someone who needs an extremely robust model or who appreciates that 'retro' feel that you get with artefacts of a bygone era. Very much a niche choice but some people clearly do value them and and they will probably run forever! The OP is using DCC so that may well rule out this model though it IS possible to convert them:-

 

http://www.scalespeed.co.uk

 

Your next choice is the Airfix Castle dating from the late 70s. They were very advanced models in their time and would probably satisfy a lot of people who are on a budget or for "train set" use. These models were later acquired by Hornby who retooled them to accommodate a superior motor. An examples of this is R2543 'Warwick Castle', several of which are available on eBay at the moment and it IS DCC ready.

 

The next step up is the retooled model dating from 2010 (I think). As discussed by others on this thread it really is the definitive model for most of us. To my mind it's the best OO gauge mass market loco ever made for the GWR enthusiast, combining an exquisite body moulding with a motor and power train capable of smooth, quiet running. No doubt I'll be shot down for rating the model so highly, but I own seven of them and they are all a joy so I base my comments on personal experience. A warning though, they are however fragile models, quite expensive and highly sort after in the second hand market. Examples of this retooled model are R2849 "Beverston Castle". One thing to be wary of: 5053 'Earl Cairns' was represented by a version of the post 2010 model AND the earlier Hornby tooling derived from the Airfix model. It is possible that the unwary might by the wrong model by mistake!

 

Moving on to the 'top of the tree' for those with VERY deep pockets, Golden Age Models produce handbuilt brass ready-to-run models of the highest quality but costing £1250 plus VAT!

 

I hope this is of help.

 

Andy