1980s Diesel depot

[60700]

I am planning to build a 00 blue era diesel depot on 2 two feet by four feet boards and would like to ask how many tracks would look comfortable across the two feet area.

Asking as I am not able to plan with a computer programme.

[jonny777]

I have had similar plans in my head for a small steam depot on a two foot wide baseboard, and came to the conclusion that a three road shed would not over dominate the scene. 

 

At least with an 80s diesel depot, you will not have the problem of siting a turntable. 

 

I would say, take a look at photos of somewhere such as Frodingham. That was a 'modern' 3-road shed with a number of extra sidings, but had the scope for stabling a decent number of locomotives during the 1980s. 

[Scottish-Exile]

I am planning to build a 00 blue era diesel depot on 2 two feet by four feet boards and would like to ask how many tracks would look comfortable across the two feet area

 

Similar to what I've built which is 7.6' x 2.6' in length (had to chop from 8 foot to close the door)

 

Mine was deliberately about having maximum track for a depot and storage sidings, so there will be little room for scenery other than the 'ready to plonk' depot and fuel points. I don't think it looks too crammed with track, others of course may choose to differ.

 

You could squeeze my plan down to fit a 2 foot board by foregoing 1 of the fuel roads (bottom right)

 

 

[Guest eddie reffin]

Similar to what I've built which is 7.6' x 2.6' in length (had to chop from 8 foot to close the door)

 

Mine was deliberately about having maximum track for a depot and storage sidings, so there will be little room for scenery other than the 'ready to plonk' depot and fuel points. I don't think it looks too crammed with track, others of course may choose to differ.

 

You could squeeze my plan down to fit a 2 foot board by foregoing 1 of the fuel roads (bottom right)

 

P1190643.JPG

 

P1190655.JPG

 

Like what you have done there Mike. I also spy one or two familiar locos on that layout

 

Cheers

Eddie

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi 60700

 

Most 1980s diesel  locomotive sheds were the same as they had been built or in the case of old steam sheds how they had been modified. Some locomotives would be serviced in the newer HST sheds.

 

Where in the country will your shed be based? Each region in the late 50 and early 60s had there own idea on how to service and maintain their new diesel locomotive fleets so there are defined regional differences, like building design, fuel pumps, fuel tanks etc. This was the same basic infrastructure in the 1980s before the massive changes that took place post privatisation. Oddly the approach to tack layout in many cases followed a similar pattern.

 

Before I carrying on waffling, loco depots were located where predicted traffic flows would end , terminus stations and marshaling yards being the most common. They were there to ready the locomotive for its next duty. they were also ideally located as to provide examination and repair facilities of an appropriate level.  By the 1980s many sheds had either be upgraded or appeared over provided for their work load, this was because of changes to the traffic from the predicted levels of the 1960s.

 

The most basic layout could be seen at Ranelagh Bridge, if you were to look at Toton or Stratford you will see the refueling points set in some loops and there is a headshunt so the locos can reach the shed or sidings.

The locos enter the stabling point to be refueled, they go straight on to the fuel point. Here they also have there water for the train heating boiler topped up (if fitted), sand boxes replenished, windscreens cleaned and if required an A Exam. Small repairs like new wipers could also be done at this stage. They then moved on to headshunt A and reversed to headshunt B. From here they would be stabled until they are next required on the sidings. There is a flow system through the fuel points so locos that have been serviced are not trapped by those undergoing servicing. Think of a typical garage how once you have filled up you are not waiting to reverse while the geezer behind you tops up his 4x4, you drive forward. A locomotive fully fueled and serviced doesn't earn money if blocked in.  You may have noticed that the balloon loops will act as a run round for when the fuel train arrives and departs.

 

I have expanded the Ranelagh Bridge principle to include a small maintenance shed, and breakdown train line.

 

At some locations the servicing was done under cover, Colchester, and Bristol Bath Road come readily to mind. At Colchester there was not a separate  maintenance shed.

 

There were some sheds with dead end fueling arrangements Shirebrook and Frodingham (as suggested by Jonny) are examples.

 

Having built a few diesel depots I have learned to try and operate it as close to prototype practice. To have a driver say "That is how we drove our locos around the shed" is a privilege. Make sure the fuel storage tanks can take more fuel than the train that is refilling them, nothing looks worse than the Ratio tanks with 3 TTAs sat in front of them. Another thing I find difficult to understand when someone has gone to great lengths to get all their locos right and then plonk any diesel depot building on the layout. Each region had its own ideas on shed buildings, look at the practice of the region you are modelling. 

 

 

 

 

[Rivercider]

I have used a Bachmann 2 road diesel servicing depot 44-017 on the part of my layout which is 12" wide with 4 tracks and it looked ok to me.

I imagine therefore two 2 road buildings would fit in an area 2' wide where you would expect to fit up to 8 tracks side by side.

 

The Bachmann depot 44-017 is similar to the buildings at Ebbw Junction depot on the WR, where there were 2 buildings side by side.

The depot seen from the east end, 15/7/80

 

 

The depot seen from the west end, 25/1/82

 

cheers

[Clive Mortimore]

I have used a Bachmann 2 road diesel servicing depot 44-017 on the part of my layout which is 12" wide with 4 tracks and it looked ok to me.

I imagine therefore two 2 road buildings would fit in an area 2' wide where you would expect to fit up to 8 tracks side by side.

 

The Bachmann depot 44-017 is similar to the buildings at Ebbw Junction depot on the WR, where there were 2 buildings side by side.

scan0052.jpg

The depot seen from the east end, 15/7/80

 

 

scan0176.jpg

The depot seen from the west end, 25/1/82

 

cheers

Hi Kevin

 

I am so surprised that someone hasn't modelled Ebbw Junction using the Peco Bachmann buildings. Instead what is a typical WR style building we see it in the Highlands of Scotland and the Fens of East Anglia no serious diesel modeller would have Westerns or Warships at Inverness or Kings Lynn.

 

Ebbw Junction is a location where there was a through servicing shed and a maintenance shed. Looking at your photos there was a fuel pump outside the  maintenance shed and other photos show a fuel pump on the road passing the servicing shed, it seems well provided for.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Clive Mortimore

[60700]

Hi 60700

 

Most 1980s diesel  locomotive sheds were the same as they had been built or in the case of old steam sheds how they had been modified. Some locomotives would be serviced in the newer HST sheds.

 

Where in the country will your shed be based? Each region in the late 50 and early 60s had there own idea on how to service and maintain their new diesel locomotive fleets so there are defined regional differences, like building design, fuel pumps, fuel tanks etc. This was the same basic infrastructure in the 1980s before the massive changes that took place post privatisation. Oddly the approach to tack layout in many cases followed a similar pattern.

 

Before I carrying on waffling, loco depots were located where predicted traffic flows would end , terminus stations and marshaling yards being the most common. They were there to ready the locomotive for its next duty. they were also ideally located as to provide examination and repair facilities of an appropriate level.  By the 1980s many sheds had either be upgraded or appeared over provided for their work load, this was because of changes to the traffic from the predicted levels of the 1960s.

 

The most basic layout could be seen at Ranelagh Bridge, if you were to look at Toton or Stratford you will see the refueling points set in some loops and there is a headshunt so the locos can reach the shed or sidings.

shed 1.gif

The locos enter the stabling point to be refueled, they go straight on to the fuel point. Here they also have there water for the train heating boiler topped up (if fitted), sand boxes replenished, windscreens cleaned and if required an A Exam. Small repairs like new wipers could also be done at this stage. They then moved on to headshunt A and reversed to headshunt B. From here they would be stabled until they are next required on the sidings. There is a flow system through the fuel points so locos that have been serviced are not trapped by those undergoing servicing. Think of a typical garage how once you have filled up you are not waiting to reverse while the geezer behind you tops up his 4x4, you drive forward. A locomotive fully fueled and serviced doesn't earn money if blocked in.  You may have noticed that the balloon loops will act as a run round for when the fuel train arrives and departs.

 

shed2.gif

I have expanded the Ranelagh Bridge principle to include a small maintenance shed, and breakdown train line.

 

shed 3.gif

At some locations the servicing was done under cover, Colchester, and Bristol Bath Road come readily to mind. At Colchester there was not a separate  maintenance shed.

shed 5.gif

 

There were some sheds with dead end fueling arrangements Shirebrook and Frodingham (as suggested by Jonny) are examples.

shed 6.gif

 

Having built a few diesel depots I have learned to try and operate it as close to prototype practice. To have a driver say "That is how we drove our locos around the shed" is a privilege. Make sure the fuel storage tanks can take more fuel than the train that is refilling them, nothing looks worse than the Ratio tanks with 3 TTAs sat in front of them. Another thing I find difficult to understand when someone has gone to great lengths to get all their locos right and then plonk any diesel depot building on the layout. Each region had its own ideas on shed buildings, look at the practice of the region you are modelling. 

 

Thank you Clive for your suggestions. I am looking at the midlands area for the Depot after spending some spotting days in 80s around Shirebrook, Barrow Hill,Westhouses and Derby where I am now living. The Shirebrook plan looks to be the most useful for me so I will get the lining paper and track templates out on the boards to get a better picture. Thank you once again.

Regards

Terry

[warbonnetuk]

Follow on question.....

 

I'm looking to doing a similar project and from my initial research it looks like depots got fuel deliveries in both Class A (grey) and Class B (black) TTA tanks. From what I understand the different classes represented different products depending in ignition point but what where the different products?

 

Presumably a depot receiving multiple products would also have multiple storage tanks as well?

 

Cheers

 

Dan

[Clive Mortimore]

Fuel Oil, aka Diesel is one of those odd products. Its flash point is a high enough temperature for it to be classed as a B product so can be transported in  black tank wagons. Unlike most other B products it is clean so can be transported in A tanks as well, most A products are clean. That is why depots had both types of tanks. With the use of hazchem signs the colour of tank wagons to identify the fire risk changed. 

 

Crude oil is the opposite it is an A class oil with a very low flash point but is a dirty product. It had to be transported in A class tank wagons for easy identification, so for the small amount carried in Britain a fleet of very dirty grey A wagons dedicated to crude was run by BP.

[Andy_C]

I’m doing the new Railway Laser Lines shed in N gauge, and came across this thread in a search. I just wanted to thank the contributors for posting colour photos, which help very much in selecting colours. 
 

My shed will look ‘brand new’, to offset a grubby 4 lane steam shed at the end of its life a little further on the same board.

 

Thanks again,

 

Andy

[DCB]

I had a two road shed in low relief only a couple of inches long which  was  very effective, it was a steam shed and two halves of a Airifx Dapol 61XX Kit sat in the doorways!    Current layout had a three road shed two feet long but you could not see what was in it even with the interior lights on.  I replaced it with a two road one around 15"  long which only two locos ca nhide in not 6.
BR did something similar with Gloucester Horton Road where they demolished 2/3rds of the steam shed leaving a small section and stabled the locos outside in the 1980s.  Most trains reversed and changed locos there at the pre HST era.

[45125]

Class B would also be used for transporting Lub oil.  Gas oil would also be used for fuelling the depot boilers.

 

Al Taylor

[Andy_C]

So I have a quandary… do I do a fuelling point at my diesel shed with visible tanks, or do I model an area where the tanks would be buried underground? I’m looking for photos, but any suggestions much appreciated. 

[Wheatley]

The tanks don't need to be next to the fuelling point. At Neville Hill the fuelling point is the 3 road shed at the west end, the tank farm is at the east end against the main buildings. Likewise at Newton Heath they're at diagonally opposite ends of the site. 

[25901]

As in real life they can be anywhere, I would place them in a dead area that needs filling. This means you can use your main area for scenic items, stock and in the case of most depots "junk"

[Whetstone Bridge]

Thanks to everyone contributing to this  discussion.  It’s been really helpful when planning my own TMD.  
 

Quick question - should a TMD have a specific loco washing area?  I don’t have room for the ubiquitous Scenecraft coach washing plant.  What are the other options?

[Davexoc]

8 minutes ago, Whetstone Bridge said:

Thanks to everyone contributing to this  discussion.  It’s been really helpful when planning my own TMD.  
 

Quick question - should a TMD have a specific loco washing area?  I don’t have room for the ubiquitous Scenecraft coach washing plant.  What are the other options?

 

A washing plant would be a luxury at a TMD, reserved mainly for coaching stock. Manual cleaning possibly in a dedicated shed with raised rails to allow underframe cleaning, or possibly an outdoor affair. OC had the 'elephant house' built on the site of the washpit in the early 80s.

Cleaning was a dousing of 'exmover', hand brush scrubed and washed off with a steam cleaning lance, using 'Warwick' diesel fired units (not advisable for use under the bonnet of 70/80s cars).

[Andy_C]

It's interesting what to include/omit from a diesel shed scene. @Duncan.and I discussed what a fuelling stage might look like for my diesel shed, and he pointed out that Shirebrook had tanks, but the fuelling was done inside the depot.

 

On a seperate note, my shed issues were around road access to them - sorted now, but the employees based at the shed have to get there some way or another 😉

Edited February 6 by Andy_C

[25901]

Interesting watch mainly from 13m

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfoqeg7E4Ck