Rare or Collectable Hornby 00 Models

[sandwich station]

Don't The Clans run on the same chassis as a Britannia? If so, surely Hornby only need to produce a body, or is it more complicated than that?

[robmcg]

Don't The Clans run on the same chassis as a Britannia? If so, surely Hornby only need to produce a body, or is it more complicated than that?

 

Cylinders on the prototype are slightly smaller, and the smaller boiler might have issues for the motor mounting, but to answer your question, I don't know. 

 

Even if Hornby had the tooling it's a labour-intensive model to assemble and people might baulk at a near-£200 RRP? I think Britannias were always better sellers.

Edited December 24, 2017 by robmcg

[Tarnish1]

How rare are the Hornby Duke of Gloucester models in the 1960's configuration? Was the locomotive model modified to show the decreased "pipework" below the cab in those days?

 

Many thanks!

[MikeParkin65]

How rare are the Hornby Duke of Gloucester models in the 1960's configuration? Was the locomotive model modified to show the decreased "pipework" below the cab in those days?

 

Many thanks!

I have the 1960's version and I am pretty sure the difference to the preserved version tooling wise is limited to the tender body.

[MikeParkin65]

I don't know if the tooling was damaged or lost, but Clans are  much prized by those who own one. Brilliant model.

 

72008_BR_Clan_putting_on_fire_4abc_r1200_crop1.jpg

 

or, if you like them pristine ex-Crewe...

 

72008_Clan_portrait41_2abcdef_crop1_r1200.jpg

 

pictures edited.

 

edit; what superb, stupendous RTR 00 art!  (In my humble opinion)

 

cheers

The Clan just beats the Britannia as a model by virtue of that handsomely modelled chimney as opposed to the fat rimmed rendition on the Brit in my opinion.

[47164]

Do the al1 (class 81) electric locos fall into the collectible category? As current prices seem somewhat wild.

[Pandora]

The AL1 by Triang is a peculiar hybrid of Dublo and Triang parts. I'm not too sure how collectible this would make this  neo-freelance  model.

 

The bodyshell is the Hornby Dublo model after a few changes in the toolroom, mainly to remove certain traces of the Dublo origins,  early models released by Triang had  the retooled Dublo bodies with the addition of  yellow warning panels made from stick on paper.

 

The bogies are inappropriate being  intended the AL2 locomotive being developed by Triang but never produced,  the acquisition of Dublo and their AL1 led to the abandoning of the Triang AL2 and the cobbling together of the various bits and pieces  for  release.

 

Still plenty of the model around as S/H  but the Bachmann 85 is far superior and can make a  passable copy  for an 81 if required.

 

The original Dublo Binns Road model  is the very collectible "Holy Grail" for Dublo collectors,  the last one I saw was priced at £350.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Pandora

[adb968008]

I think the Trix AL1 was the best overall body, and have a plan to put one on a Bachmann class 85 chassis, and removing the buffers/shortening the Bachmann frame slightly.

 

As I understand it the body for the Trix Class 81 made its way to Dapol, whom produced white body’s, with intention to fitting new bogies using the class 150 motor chassis on a new frame. Alas I think (don’t know but it’s not been seen since) that tool was lost in the fire.

 

Certainly the body shell today still passes muster alongside an 85, and is better than Hornbys 86, it has flush glazing etc amongst other things that was way ahead of its time. Just needed the roof detail /headcode boxes tidying up and a new motor/chassis to replace that now way out dated lump.

[bike2steam]

The Clan just beats the Britannia as a model by virtue of that handsomely modelled chimney as opposed to the fat rimmed rendition on the Brit in my opinion.

 

Well at least they had another 4 inches to play with to keep it within the loading gauge .  

[Pandora]

I think the Trix AL1 was the best overall body, and have a plan to put one on a Bachmann class 85 chassis, and removing the buffers/shortening the Bachmann frame slightly.

 

As I understand it the body for the Trix Class 81 made its way to Dapol, whom produced white body’s, with intention to fitting new bogies using the class 150 motor chassis on a new frame. Alas I think (don’t know but it’s not been seen since) that tool was lost in the fire.

 

Certainly the body shell today still passes muster alongside an 85, and is better than Hornbys 86, it has flush glazing etc amongst other things that was way ahead of its time. Just needed the roof detail /headcode boxes tidying up and a new motor/chassis to replace that now way out dated lump.

The 81 and 85 share every key dimension, at least from the Carter drawings.    In the early 1970's  Hattons had a batch of Trix AL1 bodies in white and were sold at 50p each, therefore  long before Dapol came to the scene, but still feasible in later years. I ordered one and the packaging was  a red Hornby-Dublo coach box!

 

I will have to dig  out the Trix bodyshell, but when I compared the Trix to the Bachmann 85 and a drawing I formed the impression that Trix had mixed up two scales for the height and width dimensions, 4mm/foot in one axis, but slightly less ( 3.8mm/foot rings a bell) in   another. Of course I could be wrong ( memory playing up ) so measure up for your yourself and  don't be put off by my post.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Pandora

[adb968008]

The 81 and 85 share every key dimension, at least from the Carter drawings. In the early 1970's Hattons had a batch of Trix AL1 bodies in white and were sold at 50p each, therefore long before Dapol came to the scene, but still feasible in later years. I ordered one and the packaging was a red Hornby-Dublo coach box!

 

I will have to dig out the Trix bodyshell, but when I compared the Trix to the Bachmann 85 and a drawing I formed the impression that Trix had mixed up two scales for the height and width dimensions, 4mm/foot in one axis, but slightly less ( 3.8mm/foot rings a bell) in another. Of course I could be wrong ( memory playing up ) so measure up for your yourself and don't be put off by my post.

Agreed, when i examined the wheels on the Trix 81, the detailing on them was identical to the Bachmann 85, size is too, which made me wonder. The 85 chassis pretty much slips on to the chassis, but the issue is the trix body has buffers/beam attached to it, where as the Bachmann 85 has the buffers/beam on the frame, one of them has to go. Under the body shell there’s a lug that needs to go. On the frame, the led fitting is quite definitely in the way as the Bachmann chassis is marginally longer.

 

Following through on the 3.8mm vs 4mm, at 56’ long it would add 11.2mm to the length of the Bachmann chassis, but this isn’t the case, it’s out by just a few mm and really needs minimal trimming, which is good as there’s not much frame to trim !!!

 

Unfortortunately most of my modelling this year went on hold spending dozens of weekends traveling up north to sort out another collection, box it etc, so hopefully in 2018 i’ll pick this one up again.

Edited December 25, 2017 by adb968008

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Don't The Clans run on the same chassis as a Britannia? If so, surely Hornby only need to produce a body, or is it more complicated than that?

 The working mechanism is the same, but a few externally visible parts on it - cylinder and valve chest mouldings for example - may be different parts to reflect the slightly different sizing between the two classes. (I would have thought the same parts would do as the dimensional variation was pretty small.)

 

The body however is the expensive part of current models, both to tool, and also to assemble and finish. If some (or even all) of the tooling for the body has been either lost or damaged as has been surmised, then it is not a small cost to restore it to production.

[sandwich station]

The body however is the expensive part of current models, both to tool, and also to assemble and finish. If some (or even all) of the tooling for the body has been either lost or damaged as has been surmised, then it is not a small cost to restore it to production.

I do agree with what you say about the body but it is still far cheaper that doing a whole loco from scratch.

[andyman7]

The AL1 by Triang is a peculiar hybrid of Dublo and Triang parts. I'm not too sure how collectible this would make this  neo-freelance  model.

 

The bodyshell is the Hornby Dublo model after a few changes in the toolroom, mainly to remove certain traces of the Dublo origins,  early models released by Triang had  the retooled Dublo bodies with the addition of  yellow warning panels made from stick on paper.

 

The bogies are inappropriate being  intended the AL2 locomotive being developed by Triang but never produced,  the acquisition of Dublo and their AL1 led to the abandoning of the Triang AL2 and the cobbling together of the various bits and pieces  for  release.

 

Still plenty of the model around as S/H  but the Bachmann 85 is far superior and can make a  passable copy  for an 81 if required.

 

The original Dublo Binns Road model  is the very collectible "Holy Grail" for Dublo collectors,  the last one I saw was priced at £350.

Of course collectability and scale fidelity are not necessarily related. The Triang-Hornby AL1 is not as pricey in real terms as it was 30 years ago but in excellent to mint condition can still command a premium, especially the twin pantograph, despite being a little crude (although looking not too bad for its time in the final rail blue version).

 

The Trix E3001 was actually tooled by a company called Miniature Construction for Liliput before being incorporated into the Trix range and is pretty much 4mm scale, being spared the 3.8mm hybrid scale that Trix used for other models until the A2/A3/A4 locos. It is to my mind the finest ready-to-run model produced in the 1960s, and still stands up well today, despite underscale buffers and slightly overlength wheelbase.

[Pandora]

The TRix E3001,  the motor bogie castings ,  shared with the Trix Western?.

 

The Trix 47,  listed in the catalogue but never produced.

 

The Hornby/Trix  bulk grain wagon was originally a Trix product,  designed tooled and manufactured by Trix for Hornby  but possibly Hornby lost patience and bought out the tooling or developed their own. 

 

Ps  the Trix / Lilliput tooling for the Whiskey bulk grain wagon, the A4 tooling may be with   Bachmann

Edited December 26, 2017 by Pandora

[47164]

Thanks all for the 81 discussion and apologies to others if the original thread has been side tracked,I agree that the trix/lillput was slightly ahead of its time in respect of the bogie mouldings and the details on the wheels, and glazing, and remains a good looking model.

[melmerby]

 

The original Dublo Binns Road model  is the very collectible "Holy Grail" for Dublo collectors,  the last one I saw was priced at £350.

I had one in well used condition and still got £100 for it a few years back.

 

It did have it's box, service sheet and guarantee but part of the yellow box infill was missing.

 

Keith

[adb968008]

Return of the clan is nigh, there’s nothing wrong with the tooling.

At the time I asked, It wasn’t clear when the clan will return, 2018 or later.

 

The stories of the clans demise, have been a source of amusement /bewilderment for sometime.

Edited December 26, 2017 by adb968008

[Tarnish1]

A bit at a tangent but are there plans within Hornby to reissue the DoG, the P2 (Prince of Wales) and the "new" Clan "Hengist" when these projects are complete? Hopefully the DoG model would comply with the revised tender type in the rebuild.

[Train wasp]

Anyone know what’s the going rate for a Clan is.

 

 

Thanks

[Robin Brasher]

The Hornby Coronation Scot coaches in blue or crimson lake and the Silver Jubilee coaches have held their value well with second hand prices of around £20. None are very accurate models and the Silver Jubilee coaches bare little resemblance to the prototype but if you want to run those trains you can either buy those or save up for some Golden Age Silver Jubilee coaches at about £200 each.

[adb968008]

Anyone know what’s the going rate for a Clan is.

Thanks

Pretty much same price as any other newly made current 4-6-2 .. £120-£200.

 

It’s interesting reading posts about “rare” locos and their premiums, which for the majority is in the £120-200 bracket. Invariably people complain about the price being too high, which compared to its peers at time of release WAS true. However I’ve not seen any corresponding complaints about prices of new Merchant Navies / Duchesses, yet the price point is pretty much the same, though some of these also have risen to an even higher premium.

 

Similarly second hand prices of rtr remains in or around their original new price, yet subsequent releases at newer prices have failed to incline the prices of older stuff significantly.

 

The gap between new and old can’t continue to grow, just like the housing market, if the supply of new shrinks, but demand to buy remains, s/h prices will rise. An interesting comparison is Bulleid Rebuilt light Pacific’s, when Hornby hit supply problems, both these and Britannia’s started to creep up in price on the s/h market, yet since 2014 when they started feeding 1 release a year back to the market the s/h price has held, for new and old, even 2017 when they offered 2 (Trevone and Appledore), there hasn’t been significant discounting of new, nor price reduction of s/h ones.. they are holding up, which suggests the sweet spot is 1 release a year, probably feeding collectors who are hoarding the older ones.

 

When the Clan returns i’d Imagine only 1 maybe 2 will appear following in the same pattern above without floods of s/h Clans returning to the market. aFAIK Hornbys made 3.. 72000,72005 and 72008 and of course there’s only 10 in the class, so less than the 5 Brits we’ve seen recently. 43/4 (2014), 34 (2015), 01 (2016-cancelled), 07 (2017).

Edited December 26, 2017 by adb968008

[Forester]

Pretty much same price as any other newly made current 4-6-2 .. £120-£200.

 

 

Good luck with finding a decent Clan at £120 .....

 

Go to eBay.

Search for "Hornby Clan -Line" (cuts out the many Merchant Navy Rebuilt "Clan Line"s and leaves the 6MT Clans)

Tick "Completed Listings"

Shows the last few month's actual sales in Green.

 

Early crest Clan Buchanan £180 to 200+

Late crest Clans £160 to 200+

[adb968008]

Good luck with finding a decent Clan at £120 .....

 

Go to eBay.

Search for "Hornby Clan -Line" (cuts out the many Merchant Navy Rebuilt "Clan Line"s and leaves the 6MT Clans)

Tick "Completed Listings"

Shows the last few month's actual sales in Green.

 

Early crest Clan Buchanan £180 to 200+

Late crest Clans £160 to 200+

On a normal day i’d Agree with you, but in my search (I did the exact same as you), I found these under £150, which surprised me..., I suspect these were lucky buys, but shows anything’s possible, however I wouldnt expect prices to fall.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R2925-BR-4-6-2-Clan-Class-Locomotive-Clan-MacGregor-72005-DCC-Ready/152796646863?hash=item239363cdcf:g:Z08AAOSwEaBaFBBp

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/00-gauge-Hornby-Clan-locomotive-72008-Clan-Macleod/332411436668?hash=item4d6543fe7c:g:jLkAAOSwrwxZ4K1g

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-BR-Clan-Macgregor-No-7200-R2925x/322876470292?hash=item4b2ceff414:g:NjoAAOSwI8laBwuy

Edited December 27, 2017 by adb968008

[Forester]

......however I would expect prices to fall.

 

 

I would say prices are only likely to fall when new Clans are produced to meet the current unsatisfied demand.