UK most overweight country in Western Europe says OECD

[PatB]

Incidentally, I should, perhaps, make clear that I agree that ultimately the energy intake/energy expenditure balance is the responsibility of the individual. My libertarian streak would not allow otherwise. However I do think that  it might be useful to research why such a large (and growing) proportion of the population have difficulty exercising that responsibility (I apologise now for the ridiculous number of unintentional puns creeping in here ) appropriately and to determine better means of encouragement/support for those who wish it. Because finger pointing, telling people they're stupid and irresponsible, and leaving fat people as the last social group it's OK to publicly abuse hasn't worked to date and I see no evidence that it's about to become more successful.

 

And no, I don't think it's all the fault of Maccas, KFC or Harry bl&y Ramsden either.

[Horsetan]

...There is a whole industry out there which exists to promote health scares and tell us we're all going to die, ...

Er, but we're all going to die anyway. Some sooner than others.

[Dunsignalling]

 My completely unscientific appraisal of the national weight problem, endless availability of cheap calories, no effective restriction mechanism. Find a restriction mechanism that is compatible with re-election, there's the cure. (No votes for the overweight.)

 It is not advertised but nicotine is thought to be palliative against mental decline in the elderly. I have never smoked, so am in good enough nick to take up cigars or a pipe (natural leaf tobacco, none of the paper and accelerants used in coffin nails) when I am about 80, unlikely to suffer any of the known bad effects, by predeceasing their chance to act.

It is very interesting that the prevalence of dementia etc.seems to have risen as the numbers of us smoking has been declining.

 

Cause or effect? Is the dementia only getting people who would have died younger as a result of smoking or did the odd ciggy actually do some good? I packed it in in shortly before my 30th birthday so any effects should have been cleaned out after thirty-five years. Maybe I should get some nicotine gum.

 

One principle I try to follow (with reasonable consistency) is "Moderation in all things, including moderation" but I'm still a stone and a half heavier than I want to be and two-and-a-half heavier than my doctor wants me to be (which would still be heavier than I was when I kicked the weed...........) 

 

Mind you, I tend to agree with whoever said that "giving up everything that is bad for you may not make you live any longer, but it will definitely feel like it."

 

John

Edited December 28, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[OnTheBranchline]

It's interesting that people point at McDonalds and other purveyors of fast high calorie food as the problem. So we are the fattest in Western Europe because none of those countries have branches of McDonalds or any fast food......

 

As for use of BMI to scare people it's just another deliberate exaggeration by public health. They call regular people obese and when we take no notice they have to make up a whole new term of "morbidly obese" for the people we used to call obese.

 

What does Public Health gain from scaring people? Or are we on the whole "too many experts/what do they know" thing again?

 

I have an anecdote on how people don't believe what they are told by public health. I work as an accountant and I was at a client's on an audit recently when I overheard a very low level pay-scale manual labour employee talking in the lunchroom complaining about a medical condition that he had but he refused to take the drugs that were prescribed by his doctor (I believe that his words were "I don't trust that stuff" or something like that).

Edited December 29, 2017 by OnTheBranchline

[Reorte]

What does Public Health gain from scaring people? Or are we on the whole "too many experts/what do they know" thing again?

 

The same everyone else does these days? Fear of backlash ("my doctor should've done something!") if they're not incredibly over-cautious? Unfortunately people won't take responsibility for themselves (and I suppose that makes me a hypocrite when it comes to weight since I'm unarguably overweight).

Edited December 29, 2017 by Reorte

[chris p bacon]

What does Public Health gain from scaring people? Or are we on the whole "too many experts/what do they know" thing again?

 

I have an anecdote on how people don't believe what they are told by public health. I work as an accountant and I was at a client's on an audit recently when I overheard a very low level pay-scale manual labour employee talking in the lunchroom complaining about a medical condition that he had but he refused to take the drugs that were prescribed by his doctor (I believe that his words were "I don't trust that stuff" or something like that).

 

I have a similar anecdote from the other viewpoint.

 

A friend of Lady Bacon is on the kidney transplant list because she continued to take blood pressure tablets on the advice of 2 medical professionals,  even though she was continually reporting problems to them, they seemingly ignored her. Only when her health deteriorated over a very short timescale did they realise the damage done, and then tried arse covering in case she took action against them/trust. An enquiry revealed that had they listened to her at the beginning she wouldn't be on dialysis and awaiting a transplant.

 

I also have some issues due to a Dr continually prescribing beyond the maximum limit for the drug.

 

I now question everything and anything they say.

[colin penfold]

What does Public Health gain from scaring people?

It's the job of public health to educate the public on health risks and by doing so to encourage us to take preventative steps to improve our own health.

 

They seem to take the view (perhaps justified) that exaggeration and scare tactics are needed to make us plebs take notice.

[Rivercider]

I don't know the answer.

 

Education on its own is clearly not working, one would have needed to have kept their fingers in their ears for the last 40 years or so

to not know that being seriously overweight is not going to be good for general health and wellbeing, and yet many of us are.

 

During our evolution it has generally been necessary to eat what we can when we can for fear of being short of food in the future,

either because we cannot find, catch, or afford food for the next meal, and we needed to lay down fat.

Now for most Western folk that no longer applies, food is always plentiful and we are not facing a bleak winter famine,

yet we eat as though we do not know where the next meal will come from

 

cheers

[jonny777]

The problem is that sugar is addictive, as are fat and salt to a lesser extent. 

 

If multinational global mega companies add as much sugar, fat and salt to their products as they can get away with; and sell them cheap, no amount of education is going get very far when customers are desperate for a regular fix. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

It is very interesting that the prevalence of dementia etc.seems to have risen as the numbers of us smoking has been declining.

 

Cause or effect? Is the dementia only getting people who would have died younger as a result of smoking or did the odd ciggy actually do some good? ... 

Leading hypothesis is that improving survival rates are the most probable contributor. Longer lives, more people likely to have what is a condition associated with ageing. It may be that it is the resulting longer exposure to environmental or other factors that is the real cause. But so far such factors have yet to be identified. (At one time there was only one completely nonsensical soap on the box, now there's at least one on every channel and QVC, and if that isn't enough to cause brain rot...)

 

Er, but we're all going to die anyway. Some sooner than others.

General opinion veers toward denial of this rather salient fact. and there is a positive cult of supposed equality of health and lifespan outcomes. Yet all experience says otherwise, death is inescapable, and those who lead rip-roaring lives of multiple excess can and do long outlive clean living healthy types.

 

 

...I also have some issues due to a Dr continually prescribing beyond the maximum limit for the drug.

 

I now question everything and anything they say.

 Very proper attitude. I was prescribed Lariam (anti malarial prophylactic) when it was the new drug effective against resistant malarial strains in the especially jungly area to be visited. The approval testing had shown that there was small risk of psychological side effect, but this would become evident after the first couple of doses pre-travel. All was well so I went. And got 'very interesting psychological withdrawal side effects at the end of the dosage regime. (They hadn't tested for dosage plus travel across time zones, which my eminent drug approvals academic friend believes to be the most likely cause.) But I didn't get malaria, and having seen my Pa have recurrences of childhood malaria into his forties, that's something positive: and the side effects granted me a direct insight into the completely brain manufactured artefact that is our visual process, so it's not all negative.

 

But I am suspicious of the general effort to medicalise our every condition. Since my forebears who died at home in bed consistently made it into late age for their times with little more than aspirin as an aid from the point that became available, I think that's what I will stick to; unless I develop an immediately acute condition demanding therapy.

[jonny777]

 

General opinion veers toward denial of this rather salient fact. and there is a positive cult of supposed equality of health and lifespan outcomes. Yet all experience says otherwise, death is inescapable, and those who lead rip-roaring lives of multiple excess can and do long outlive clean living healthy types.

 

 

 

 

Yes, my 94 year old Dad started smoking a pipe whilst in the RAF during WW2, because he thought it made him look cool.  

 

He still puffs away 77 years later, but the health visitor continues to lecture him on how dangerous smoking can be; and he has been told that he can't have any hospital surgery until he gives up the habit completely. 

[jjb1970]

I have a similar anecdote from the other viewpoint.

 

A friend of Lady Bacon is on the kidney transplant list because she continued to take blood pressure tablets on the advice of 2 medical professionals,  even though she was continually reporting problems to them, they seemingly ignored her. Only when her health deteriorated over a very short timescale did they realise the damage done, and then tried arse covering in case she took action against them/trust. An enquiry revealed that had they listened to her at the beginning she wouldn't be on dialysis and awaiting a transplant.

 

I also have some issues due to a Dr continually prescribing beyond the maximum limit for the drug.

 

I now question everything and anything they say.

 

Unfortunately I have similar experiences.

 

My father was told by his GP he had an ear infection, and again when symptoms persisted. Eventually a theatre nurse who lived a couple of doors down from us called an ambulance and sent him to the hospital as she was clear that something was wrong. He was immediately diagnosed as having a brain tumour which was terminal and the doctors who treated him in Newcastle (who were excellent) were pretty clear that his GP should have considered a tumour immediately as his symptoms were classic indicators of a tumour.

 

My brother went for twenty years thinking he had gout with his GP regularly re-prescribing gout medication and telling him to eat less gout-ish foods until a new GP diagnosed it was a tendon issue which would have been relatively easy to treat if properly diagnosed at the outset. 

 

A friend had to have a shoulder replacement as a result of a wrong diagnosis. He suffered from growths in the joint that pretty much acted like having sandpaper in the joint, his GP sent him for physio which was probably the worst thing he could have done. Again, what really upset him was his surgeons comments when it was finally properly diagnosed to the effect that his GP was clearly an idiot and that if he'd seen the correct doctors at the outset he would probably have avoided shoulder replacement surgery. 

 

A friend of mine was on a road to an early death until he decided to consult a private oncologist who completely changed the treatment regime and his cancer went into remission. 

 

My attitude is therefore that you should never just accept this stuff at face value and you should never be scared to seek a second opinion and do your own reading.

[spikey]

My attitude is therefore that you should never just accept this stuff at face value and you should never be scared to seek a second opinion and do your own reading.

 

Won't bore you with the reasons why, but there are two people here who have good cause to say that they could not agree more with you.

[Nearholmer]

Absolutely true that doctors sometimes make mistakes, but how is that relevant to us being the fat boys of Europe?

[jjb1970]

Absolutely true that doctors sometimes make mistakes, but how is that relevant to us being the fat boys of Europe?

I think it was a general comment to the effect that experts aren't infallible and their opinions shouldn't be accepted unquestioningly. That applies to anything.

[Nearholmer]

It does indeed.

 

But, what I fear is that that truth is somehow getting over-extended to become ‘you can’t believe a word that experts tell you, especially if it’s an uncomfortable truth you’d prefer not to hear’.

[Dick Turpin]

Absolutely true that doctors sometimes make mistakes, but how is that relevant to us being the fat boys of Europe?

 

Doctors do sometimes make mistakes, that's inevitable. My doctor, and the doctor of a work colleague, not the same one,now discuss issues, their remedies, their side effects and drawbacks, and ask 'us' what we think best. Then 'we' decide with the doctor what 'we' think best to proceed with. If this is the new way I wholeheartedly agree with it. What do you think? does your doctor now do as 'ours' does, or is he/she still just prescribing what's best for you based on their superior knowledge. I'm interested if there has been a change or have some doctors maybe just changed their tack?

[jjb1970]

I think that this is a subject where there is very little new to say. The idea that consuming more calories than you expend will make you fat isn't new. Does anybody genuinely not know that too much salt, fat, sugar etc is unhealthy? We have had continuous public education initiatives on the subject of diet over my entire life and people still ignore a lot of it. The question is how to make that education more effective.

[jjb1970]

It does indeed.

 

But, what I fear is that that truth is somehow getting over-extended to become ‘you can’t believe a word that experts tell you, especially if it’s an uncomfortable truth you’d prefer not to hear’.

I don't think people are saying that. I think people are saying that you shouldn't be scared to question experts and to seek a second opinion. That isn't the same as saying don't believe a word of what experts say.

[Dick Turpin]

My last post isn't relevant to us being fat either, but it just struck a chord. We are fat because we eat too much, food is too cheap, we follow the American commercial fast food model, and physically demanding jobs are a thing of the past, Consequently, we all now need to constantly watch what we eat, what, when and how much, and make sure we exercise enough. If that isn't enough, we also need to make sure we aren't stressed through work etc and it isn't impacting on all the above. However, we are human, we will fail, and we may not all resemble Greek gods as a result. Best not worry about it too much in my opinion, just contemplate the past from a railway perspective, and attempt to build a model representative in miniature to reflect your own emotional response to lower cholesterol and blood pressure and so return any physical and emotional imbalance to normal!

[Nearholmer]

JJB

 

Good. Although, I'd got a contrary impression from some earlier posts. Not yours.

 

K

[NittenDormer]

What always irritates me about this kind of debate is that it is always about diet, and the other factor, exercise, barely gets a mention. While I appreciate that many on this forum may be past their peak rugby days, as a sweeping generalisation, I wish exercise would be seen as 'normal 'rather than unusual. The mental well being froma well exercised (as opposed to a correct weight but otherwise unfit body), is, I claim utterly un scientifically, rather good.

[Dick Turpin]

What always irritates me about this kind of debate is that it is always about diet, and the other factor, exercise, barely gets a mention. While I appreciate that many on this forum may be past their peak rugby days, as a sweeping generalisation, I wish exercise would be seen as 'normal 'rather than unusual. The mental well being froma well exercised (as opposed to a correct weight but otherwise unfit body), is, I claim utterly un scientifically, rather good.

 

 

Exercise is good … but it won't help you lose weight, say doctors

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/22/obesity-owes-more-to-bad-diet-than-lack-of-exercise-say-doctors

[MJI]

I have bad tinnitus currently (suspect a noisy coworker) but I was MRIed to eliminate any tumours,

 

As to excercise, whizzed around a few shops today, Did not hang about, not breathless, nor sore legs.

 

Bit of advise to anyone wanting to insult fatties.

 

We have strong legs to kick you with.

 

Mine crept up slowly over 25 years!

[Dick Turpin]

I also have tinnitus - suspect Motorhead @ 1980s