EddieB Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Stroll and Sainz get Penalty Points. https://www.racefans.net/2018/10/21/stroll-and-sainz-get-penalty-points-ocon-under-investigation/ Stroll I can understand, but having seen the replay (assuming it was the right incident) I couldn't understand why Sainz was given a time penalty, let alone a penalty point. The C4 commentators drew the same conclusion regarding the time penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 BLOODY MAD I expect you believe the penalty was mad. The teams were careless for not ensuring they stayed within the regulations & earned their punishment. Why have rules if you don't enforce them? When you have set limits, allowing a tolerance is unfair to the teams who conform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 22, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2018 I expect you believe the penalty was mad. The teams were careless for not ensuring they stayed within the regulations & earned their punishment. Why have rules if you don't enforce them? When you have set limits, allowing a tolerance is unfair to the teams who conform. But in Ocon’s case there was too high a flow for part of a lap and then a trough thereafter, says Szafnauer, so over the lap no advantage. And what I feel is that the driver is an innocent victim, so just deduct the team points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Sounds like a useful overtaking aid then? If it wasn't used for that, it would be if it went unpenalised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 22, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2018 Sounds like a useful overtaking aid then? If it wasn't used for that, it would be if it went unpenalised. I take your point, but it seems to have happened on just one lap out of how many. Equipment malfunction sounds more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Mercedes management of Hamilton was very curious to say the least. OK, outdragged from pole was a problem, but they knew about that risk. Manufacturing a third after Hamilton got effectively a no time penalty tyre change and was in the lead was truly weird. It looked pretty obvious from my armchair that he should have come in for his third set of tyres immediately Raiko started gaining. The basic pace of the Merc over race distance looked competitive enough for a win if holding the lead for most of the race duration. This takes nothing away from Raiko, who fully deserved the result after so much unfulfilled grafting in recent years. Perhaps he can have another one before year end what with Vettel looking increasingly flaky? The only thing missing from this race was a Verstappen/Vettel joint mission to explore a gravel trap. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted October 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2018 Good race, definitely one of those circuits which would be so much more interesting if there weren't enormous tarmac run offs! Half the drivers would have been a whole world of trouble if there was grass/gravel on the outside of some of the turns! Seems harsh for Ocon and Magnussen. I understand the latter used 100g too much fuel, or 0.1%. Lift and coast on one straight would have avoided that! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 But in Ocon’s case there was too high a flow for part of a lap and then a trough thereafter, says Szafnauer, so over the lap no advantage. And what I feel is that the driver is an innocent victim, so just deduct the team points.On the black & white level, the car was outside the specifications laid down in the rules. I imagine the penalty was also defined in the rules.It's hard luck for the driver, but if you allow seemingly small infractions then the line moves for everyone, but to an undefined place. His car was illegal, so he was disqualified. That's all there is to it. Neither the team nor the driver can have any legitimate complaints (so long as the rules are applied in the same manner to everyone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) Had it been Vettle that had the dice with Max at the end, you can almost bet they would have collided, (Seb into the side of Max), so showed some superb thinking and driving from Lewis at that point, and also great to see how well Max handeled the situation. Edited October 22, 2018 by Andrew P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Did anyone else hear the comment from one of the C4 Team on Sunday, that Seb has been seen spending more and more time in the Red Bull Hospitality Unit than Ferrari over the last few Months. ????? I hope Gasley is good enough, otherwise it's Chop time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I also think that Danny Ricciado can wave goodby to any Podiems for the next couple of years, a very silly move in my view, but as with many times in the past, (Lewis going to Merc for example) I could be way wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I also think that Danny Ricciado can wave goodby to any Podiems for the next couple of years, a very silly move in my view, but as with many times in the past, (Lewis going to Merc for example) I could be way wrong. Possibly a case of wanting to be a No1 in a smaller team rather than No2 in a larger one. That may also be Kimi's thinking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Mercedes management of Hamilton was very curious to say the least. OK, outdragged from pole was a problem, but they knew about that risk. Manufacturing a third after Hamilton got effectively a no time penalty tyre change and was in the lead was truly weird. It looked pretty obvious from my armchair that he should have come in for his third set of tyres immediately Raiko started gaining. The basic pace of the Merc over race distance looked competitive enough for a win if holding the lead for most of the race duration. With hindsight, yes. However, I think the main teams were surprised at the degradation of the soft (yellow walled) tyres, having had no opportunity to evaluate them under the weather conditions that prevailed during the race. Witness how early Max came in to change from his starting set, and a radio comment he made about their drop off. I'd say that Mercedes thought Lewis could make his set last until the end of the race when he put them on, then carried on thinking that he might be able to conserve enough lead over Kimi once their performance started to drop off. Their mistake was failing to go straight to damage limitation mode at the first sign Kimi was taking large chunks out of the lead - in going all out to win the race, they lost second place as well. Still, I think it does make for a more interesting final set of races and it would take a highly improbable set of results for Lewis not to get his fifth championship. And thoroughly deserved, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted October 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2018 Bad call from Merc, I wonder if Bono will be replaced for next year, as it's about 5 bad call this year. Bono sings in U2 is Lewis's race engineer, he doesn't make the tactical decisions, that's down to James Vowles. Remember a few races back, Vowles came on the radio to apologise to Lewis for a disastrous tactical all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Bono sings in U2 is Lewis's race engineer, he doesn't make the tactical decisions, that's down to James Vowles. Remember a few races back, Vowles came on the radio to apologise to Lewis for a disastrous tactical all. THANKS, Yes I meant James. Doohh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Good race, definitely one of those circuits which would be so much more interesting if there weren't enormous tarmac run offs! Half the drivers would have been a whole world of trouble if there was grass/gravel on the outside of some of the turns! Seems harsh for Ocon and Magnussen. I understand the latter used 100g too much fuel, or 0.1%. Lift and coast on one straight would have avoided that! I think as far as Magnussen is concerned, there needs to be a particular amount of fuel left in the tank at the end in order for the scrutineers to be able to carry out tests to confirm that the fuel used is that permitted by the regulations and that no additives or other chemical agents have been used. If they are unable to carry out the tests, then they are unable to determine that the fuel used was legal and therefore the driver is disqualified. This is similar to when an athlete fails to show up for a drug test. Now there could be all sorts of reasons for this (domestic crisis, family issue, bereavement, or even just plain forgetfulness) but without the athlete being able to provide a clean sample, the athletic federations are unable to determine that the athlete is not cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Still, I think it does make for a more interesting final set of races and it would take a highly improbable set of results for Lewis not to get his fifth championship. And thoroughly deserved, too. 70 points in front and 3 races to go? I don't think so, just prolongs the crowing by a race or two... Hamilton doesn't even have to try hard, just finish in the top six in Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 23, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2018 70 points in front and 3 races to go? I don't think so, just prolongs the crowing by a race or two... Hamilton doesn't even have to try hard, just finish in the top six in Mexico. But the leading F1 racer isn't yet born who thinks like that. Pole, fastest lap and winning are the holy trinity, and Lewis is as minded as any other to aim for those every time. Indeed, with so few points needed he can take more risks, knowing that Vettel also has to win all the remaining races to beat him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2018 But the leading F1 racer isn't yet born who thinks like that. Pole, fastest lap and winning are the holy trinity, and Lewis is as minded as any other to aim for those every time. Indeed, with so few points needed he can take more risks, knowing that Vettel also has to win all the remaining races to beat him. Forgetting last year Ian? Lewis only needed a lower place finish in Mexico that year too - he cruised to a finish after a puncture and didn't win another race after that from memory. I predict the same this year 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) Beat me to it, RM, that's exactly what i was thinking when i posted. He's developed from an all out racer (like Max is now!) into a very calculating racer like Prost used to be. He'll do what he needs to do, if he can win then he will but the name of the game is to get that fifth championship and if that means taking it easy to get it, that's what he'll do. If Max can calm down enough he will easily be able to fill Lewis's racing shoes when he retires, the talent's there, he just needs to calm down a bit... Edited October 23, 2018 by Hobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Will History show that Kimi was the Last Ferrari winner for some time? Wouldn't surprise me to see him do it again, possibly in Brazil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 23, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2018 Forgetting last year Ian? Lewis only needed a lower place finish in Mexico that year too - he cruised to a finish after a puncture and didn't win another race after that from memory. I predict the same this year The first-lap puncture from Vettel dropped him to the tail, and thereafter his car was below-par, with undue sensitivity when following another. Clearly there was no chance of chasing after Vettel from then on, so damage limitation was the only option. But his intent at the start was to be there with the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Did anyone else hear the comment from one of the C4 Team on Sunday, that Seb has been seen spending more and more time in the Red Bull Hospitality Unit than Ferrari over the last few Months. ????? I hope Gasley is good enough, otherwise it's Chop time. Sebastian Vettel does not appear to be as "happy" at Ferrari than at former team Red Bull, says says former F1 driver David Coulthard. The German has been seen "around Red Bull more often in the last few races than at any other time that he's been at Ferrari", says Coulthard. (GP Fans, via Channel 4) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) The first-lap puncture from Vettel dropped him to the tail, and thereafter his car was below-par, with undue sensitivity when following another. Clearly there was no chance of chasing after Vettel from then on, so damage limitation was the only option. But his intent at the start was to be there with the rest. My point was that he'll do what he needs to. OK if a win's on the cards then he'll do that as that's the way he wants to win it, but if it isn't then he won't. You asked what leading driver wouldn't go for the holy trinity at all costs... I'd answer you with the name of one of the Greats... Prost... I suspect you'll find that many of the greats from the 50s such as Moss and Fangio took the same view. To win, first you have to finish... Edited October 23, 2018 by Hobby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2018 Bottas won in Abu Dhabi last year, Lewis owes him a win 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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