Single use plastic and model railways

[JeremyC]

Problem is that microplastics in the oceans are getting into our food chain through fish eating them. If you're interested in the subject try finding a film called 'A Plastic Ocean' (Was available on Netflix if you have access to that), it's a sobering watch. My two sons could  give 'chapter and verse' on the subject as one is an Ecologist and the other is hoping to graduate with a degree in Environmental Management.

https://www.plasticoceans.org/about-film/

Edited January 4, 2018 by JeremyC

[Neil]

Here in Wales we do quite well in the recycling league table, second in Europe, third in the World and a good way ahead of the rest of the UK. However we can't and shouldn't rest on our laurels, not for from where I live a couple of recycling centres have been closed for financial reasons by Powys Council. At home we have recycling bins for paper and card, plastic containers, glass bottles/jars ,tins and food waste. This is collected weekly. Our ordinary wheelie bin is collected every three weeks, but with just two of us at home it's rarely anywhere near full. I have an idea that plastic recycling would be more effective if a more limited range of plastics were made available for packaging, especially if each container was clearly marked with the type.

[Poggy1165]

I agree that politics enters into all sorts of stuff. Indeed, most things. However I don't write the rules and the t&c of the site state "no politics" so I tend to hold back. (One problem is that affirming the status quo is often seen as "non-political" while advocating change is seen as "political." Both positions are actually political.) 

 

I suppose the best way forward is to take personal responsibility and re-purpose as much stuff as possible, while throwing away as little as possible. I expect most of us could be more economical in that respect, and it doesn't involve any effort from external agencies. For example I have some white metal buffers spare. Instead of binning them I shall put them on Ebay - someone out there will doubtless be glad of them, even if I only make 5p on the transaction.

[Enterprisingwestern]

I agree that politics enters into all sorts of stuff. Indeed, most things. However I don't write the rules and the t&c of the site state "no politics" so I tend to hold back. (One problem is that affirming the status quo is often seen as "non-political" while advocating change is seen as "political." Both positions are actually political.) 

 

I suppose the best way forward is to take personal responsibility and re-purpose as much stuff as possible, while throwing away as little as possible. I expect most of us could be more economical in that respect, and it doesn't involve any effort from external agencies. For example I have some white metal buffers spare. Instead of binning them I shall put them on Ebay - someone out there will doubtless be glad of them, even if I only make 5p on the transaction.

 

I'm not criticising your motives, so don't take this the wrong way, but selling on ebay will incur packaging costs, and then there is the fuel to transport the goods.

Ecology and sustainability really are hard work!

 

Mike.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Just seen on the BBC news that there is likely to be a 25p surcharge on takeaway coffee cups to enable them to be recycled successfully.

Don't say I didn't warn you!!

 

Mike.

[Shed]

more stick 

less carrot 

[Chamby]

Just seen on the BBC news that there is likely to be a 25p surcharge on takeaway coffee cups to enable them to be recycled successfully.

Don't say I didn't warn you!!

 

Mike.

But will they really be recycled? I doubt that the funds raised will be specifically used to recycle the cups. More likely it will become seen as an incentive for regular coffee drinkers to have their own re-useable cups.

 

The 5p levy on supermarket bags is a case in point. Yes it has pushed many more people away from the flimsy single use bags towards so-called ‘bags for life’ - a misnomer if ever there was one. But you still can’t recycle the flimsy ones if you pay your 5p.

 

As to whether the plastic used in (for example) peco trackwork or woodland scenics foam underlay is recyclable... I doubt it. And it is hard to see what we can do about that, without changing our hobby in a very fundamental way. Wooden or card sleepers, perhaps?

[rue_d_etropal]

I assume it is still the case, but Wills plastic kits used to say to use the clear packaging to glaze windows. Makes sence. Flat clear plastic is easy to re-use, it is the shaped stuff that is more difficult.

Some plastics are ideal for model making. If it is a container that goes in freezer it will be the right type of plastic for us modellers. All those ice cream containers are a good source of  styrene plastic, whereas margarine containers are not, but I suppose, once cleaned out(do it with washing up so you are not using more hot water etc), then they are useful containers (and if all same size, will pack into shelf/storage space easier).

 

Much of the plastic in models and kits is actually already recycled/re-used. I seem to remember it being said tat the reason Hornby track sleepers were black, was because it was using scraps of plastic from other models, and then died black so itwas an even colour. It might just  be a nice story, partly true, but dark brown stain would be as good, especially as the colours tend to mix upinto a brown usually.

I find I can use some of the thin clear plastic used to keep magazines dry in the post, as it is a good backing for windows, then covered with Glue n Glaze.

One of the problems is the terminology. The word 'recycle' is very ambiguous, and is often used to self define itself. One reason I prefer to re-use, or re-create(The origin of my own approach to modeling and art). When you analyse the environmental impact, you have to take into account far more than just the objects. Much of the plastic waste sent to China was in ships returning empty, so it was in effect a free trip. Dealing with it once it arrived was the big problem.

Edited January 5, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[ianmianmianm]

Being based on an island without a model railway shop, and trying to build modern image N, I've recently used...

 

- The card backing from my Kato track packets to make correct thickness pavements for my scalescenes prints...

- The foam packaging, covered in printed paper and overlay sheets, to make an office block in the background

- The clear plastic box from Oxford Diecasts, to use as the basis for a Pret a Manger kiosk....

 

Necessity definitely is....!

[SM42]

I am intrigued by the suggestion of a tax on single use plastics. I wonder how a piece of rolling stock, track  or model kit would be classed if this were to happen. 

 

Some of my locos are almost the same age as me and I don't see them being recycled soon. Single use they may be, but not  a burden on the waste collection industry for some time to come I hope. Roco however, may need to change their packaging for wagons. 

 

Andy

[MJI]

By no politics I think we can mainly assume no "vote for this" type politics, recycling is not politics.

 

It think it is mainly there to stop right wing and left wing forum fighting each other!

[MJI]

I am intrigued by the suggestion of a tax on single use plastics. I wonder how a piece of rolling stock, track  or model kit would be classed if this were to happen. 

 

Some of my locos are almost the same age as me and I don't see them being recycled soon. Single use they may be, but not  a burden on the waste collection industry for some time to come I hope. Roco however, may need to change their packaging for wagons. 

 

Andy

 

 

I am guessing that this is for packaging and disposable items.

 

That said I am slowly recycling all my carriage packing as I slowly build rakes up into Really Usefull Boxes.

[Mark Saunders]

There are so many degrees of Politics;

 

Government

 

County Council

 

Local Council

 

Parish

 

Family

 

and so on till you get to the politics of model railways on this forum!

 

Mark Saunders

[johnarcher]

Here in Wales we do quite well in the recycling league table, second in Europe, third in the World and a good way ahead of the rest of the UK. However we can't and shouldn't rest on our laurels, not for from where I live a couple of recycling centres have been closed for financial reasons by Powys Council. At home we have recycling bins for paper and card, plastic containers, glass bottles/jars ,tins and food waste. This is collected weekly. Our ordinary wheelie bin is collected every three weeks, but with just two of us at home it's rarely anywhere near full. I have an idea that plastic recycling would be more effective if a more limited range of plastics were made available for packaging, especially if each container was clearly marked with the type.

On the other hand here, only just over the border from Powys, in Herefordshire, we have just a single 'recycling' bin. I wonder if anyone really sorts the glass from metal, cardboard, different plastics etc?

Nothing that could possibly be packed in paper or cardboard should be packed in plastic, surely.

[Dunsignalling]

Plenty of people seem perfectly willing to pay three quid or more for a coffee made from ingredients that probably cost less than the proposed 25p surcharge for recycling the cup.

 

Have we already entered the lunatic end of consumer capitalism? You bet we have.

 

John

Edited January 13, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[jjb1970]

The cost to purchase an item need not have any connection with the cost to manufacture that item, and for some products packaging has always been a disproportionately high cost. Coffee is far from the worst example, look at the mark up on perfume, cosmetics and fashion apparel.

In some cases it is not as simple as just looking at the cost to make something and the selling cost. The expertise to design and make stuff has a value, costs of R&D, some things are cheap to make but expensive to sell because of marketing etc. And of course it is the consumer that ultimately decides whether something is worth the price.

Personally I don't drink tea or coffee but I can understand why those that do are willing to pay more for a product they like. I love beefburgers but pay a lot more to enjoy good burgers even though the cost of the base ingredients is probably not that much different than certain well known fast food outlets.

[Dunsignalling]

The cost to purchase an item need not have any connection with the cost to manufacture that item, and for some products packaging has always been a disproportionately high cost. Coffee is far from the worst example, look at the mark up on perfume, cosmetics and fashion apparel.

In some cases it is not as simple as just looking at the cost to make something and the selling cost. The expertise to design and make stuff has a value, costs of R&D, some things are cheap to make but expensive to sell because of marketing etc. And of course it is the consumer that ultimately decides whether something is worth the price.

Personally I don't drink tea or coffee but I can understand why those that do are willing to pay more for a product they like. I love beefburgers but pay a lot more to enjoy good burgers even though the cost of the base ingredients is probably not that much different than certain well known fast food outlets.

If they like it enough to make them willing to pay so much already, another 25p shouldn't be here-nor-there, then.

 

John

[royaloak]

more stick 

less carrot 

Its easier to make money using a stick, it normally costs money if you use a carrot!

[Dunsignalling]

Its easier to make money using a stick, it normally costs money if you use a carrot!

Sticks cost the polluter and, if it costs him enough, he'll stop polluting.

 

Carrots cost the taxpayer.

 

John

[bmthtrains - David]

Reducing the waste of plastics is a hugely important issue that does need more action than has currently been announced. However I don't think railway modellers need to worry too much about their contribution to the problem. For one thing, we consume nowhere near the volumes of plastics than say bottled water does. We can of course, and should, do our bit to help though. Packaging from suppliers is still probably the biggest issue, but actually I think railway modellers are on the whole pretty good at endlessly reusing things in general, from one layout to the next, and in turning what would be waste objects into bits of scenery. Think of all the cardboard boxes that get turned into buildings, odd bits of plastic sprue that turn into columns or lampposts, those spares and offcuts that sit in boxes for years before being turned into something else...

 

If the hobby wants to get serious about reducing waste, especially plastics waste, pressuring manufacturers for recyclable packaging, and encouraging even greater reuse of odds and ends on their layouts would be my priority.

 

My 'bits box' has plastic offcuts and unused bits of kits that are maybe 20 years old now, and are continuing to find new uses in my current layout plans. Not throwing stuff away is surely a central part of the hobby!

 

David

[phil-b259]

If they like it enough to make them willing to pay so much already, another 25p shouldn't be here-nor-there, then.

 

John

 

Evidence from the carrier bag levy has shown that charging extra for plastic packing does indeed reduce its use. As such even if only a quarter of folk switch to reusable cups then its better than nothing.

 

Of course the other thing you could do is make it a legal requirement for all retailers to collect and recycle their 'takeaway' cups in store - not only would that make them think twice about what they use to make them but it also might boost the number of plants that are able to take on the complex business of splitting the cupboard and plastic contents of the cups. However given that business and right wing free market supporters would no doubt criticise this as 'excessive red tape' / 'interference in commercial matters by Government' I doubt such a thing would happen.

[phil-b259]

If the hobby wants to get serious about reducing waste, especially plastics waste, pressuring manufacturers for recyclable packaging, and encouraging even greater reuse of odds and ends on their layouts would be my priority.

 

My 'bits box' has plastic offcuts and unused bits of kits that are maybe 20 years old now, and are continuing to find new uses in my current layout plans. Not throwing stuff away is surely a central part of the hobby!

 

David

 

To be fair, cardboard is not a big problem environmentally - it can easily be recycled and even if it does simply get dumped, ultimately being a product made of wood it will naturally break down over relatively short timescales. Its little bits of plastic that are the issue....

Edited January 14, 2018 by phil-b259

[jjb1970]

If they like it enough to make them willing to pay so much already, another 25p shouldn't be here-nor-there, then.

 

John

I don't think 25p will stop many people buying fancy coffee. May encourage people to switch to re-usable cups but it is clearly a market which isn't especially price sensitive given the huge growth of coffee shops selling high priced coffee and people developing a more discerning palate when it comes to coffee.

[phil-b259]

I don't think 25p will stop many people buying fancy coffee. May encourage people to switch to re-usable cups

 

But isn't that the whole point!

[jjb1970]

But isn't that the whole point!

Yes, but it's worth pointing out that if coffee was a particularly price sensitive market people wouldn't be spending a small fortune on fancy coffee in the first place and so a 25p surcharge won't be seen as particularly disastrous by most consumers either way. I think a lot will move to re-usable cups, but many will probably just take the 25p hit rather than carrying a cup around all day.