Leeds station disruption

[Jim Martin]

Leeds station is currently suffering heavy disruption after a train separated on the Western approach. I just left there on a TPE Newcastle-Liverpool service (now a Newcastle-Manchester service and running way late) and 150203 was standing just outside the station, surrounded by people in hi-viz and with an appreciable gap between the two cars.

 

It looks like the station was essentially closed down, albeit teeming with people, for a good half hour at least. I imagine that Northern will be on the hook for serious money.

 

Jim

[russ p]

The 150 became divided

[caradoc]

Divided within the set (as opposed to a division between two coupled sets) ? That is fortunately very rare, but rather concerning.

[black and decker boy]

Unit just released from refurbishment as well by all accounts

[russ p]

Saw a picture and the intermediate BSI couplers had parted.

A lot of units have had these replaced with bar couplers

[Jim Martin]

Divided within the set (as opposed to a division between two coupled sets) ? That is fortunately very rare, but rather concerning.

 

 

Saw a picture and the intermediate BSI couplers had parted.

A lot of units have had these replaced with bar couplers

 

There was a clear gap between the two cars when we finally got out of the station - there was about a 6-inch gap between the gangways. My train was diverted to Manchester Piccadilly and terminated there (it was supposed to go to Victoria and then on to Liverpool) and passengers for Liverpool were directed to the 17:37 East Midlands train to Lime Street. This was a 158+156 combination and was, unsurprisingly, very full. I was in the corridor of the 158 and there was a fair bit of gallows humour regarding the two people who were standing right in the corridor connection with one foot in each car.

 

Jim

[w124bob]

It's the first time I've come across this type of split within a semi fixed set, it was not unknown for a cab to cab split(still rare). Most common ocurrence was a simple brake application due pins being out of alignment in the electrical part of the BSI, it only takes a second and thats the brakes on. Always in the most awkward of places and quite often multiple sets, 153's in my experience when coupled to other units. In the Leeds incident at least they'll be no come back for the driver.

[caradoc]

I hadn't realised there were BSI couplers within sets, I thought these were all bar couplers ?

[russ p]

The two prototype three car sets had bars but the rest BSIs but manually operated ones without the electrical box as they have jumpers

A 158 divided about a year ago on the king Edward bridge at Newcastle working ECS to Scotland by ROG

[Titan]

The two prototype three car sets had bars but the rest BSIs but manually operated ones without the electrical box as they have jumpers

A 158 divided about a year ago on the king Edward bridge at Newcastle working ECS to Scotland by ROG

 

This was quite useful. Although there was not quite the same abundance of 'hybrid' sets that you got with first generation sets, it was quite easy to make 2x3 car 150/0's from 2x2 car 150/0's + 1 x 150/2. Some adapter I think was required on the driving end of the 150/2, or possibly the electrics added to the coupler of the 150/0, but no mechanical adaptation was required. I think there were some 156/158 combos as well as 153/156. 

[russ p]

Sprinters actually have a jumper socket on the cab end for that very purpose

158s have to have a gangway adaptor to make a three car but the others don't. Central had hybrid 150 three cars for years and there have been 156 and 150 hybrids with 153s to make a two car where a vehicle is out of traffic for some reason

[Covkid]

This was quite useful. Although there was not quite the same abundance of 'hybrid' sets that you got with first generation sets, it was quite easy to make 2x3 car 150/0's from 2x2 car 150/0's + 1 x 150/2. Some adapter I think was required on the driving end of the 150/2, or possibly the electrics added to the coupler of the 150/0, but no mechanical adaptation was required. I think there were some 156/158 combos as well as 153/156. 

 

Sprinters actually have a jumper socket on the cab end for that very purpose

158s have to have a gangway adaptor to make a three car but the others don't. Central had hybrid 150 three cars for years and there have been 156 and 150 hybrids with 153s to make a two car where a vehicle is out of traffic for some reason

 

 

Just to clarify that "Titan"'s 150/0s were not the original 150/0s.

 

The first 150s were 2 x three car units with purpose built centre cars.  These two units were different from all other 150s and have been known as 150/0s apart from the period when one of them (150002) was temporarily fitted with prototype engines / transmissons / air con for the impending class 158 order and number 154001. 

 

A number of the fifty strong class 150/1 two car units were semi permanently augmented with a through gangwayed 150/2 car, and these had the "1" replaced with a "0" to identify them as three car units - 150126 as an example becoming 150026 for the duration it had a 572xx or 577xx centre car.    

Edited February 9, 2018 by Covkid

[newbryford]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/97337245@N08/26267704548/in/photolist-2337wmb-23U2DSm-EvDUNR-DLCGyv-22P4fnS-23erFVq-23rAnwb-23TYiCQ-23wvg5J-JtoAZX-22jJ6hU-FUtjJy-G2bRpJ-23CurJf-23vZF2m-23WCPtT-JHxUrt-Ei8p6g-FS3bXd-Ji98oH-22YBRco-23KKQ8S-22Hx6Km-Kcey4x-FMxic9-JX3GZe-22LuUPj

 

There is another photo out there of the other half in the station throat, but can't find a link to it.

 

As for 156/158 combos, that was a temporary measure to try and get round leaf fall problems - 156 has clasp brakes that clean the wheel treads, whilst 158s are disc braked. Not too successful by all accounts and wasn't carried out for very long.

 

 

 

A number of the fifty strong class 150/1 two car units were semi permanently augmented with a through gangwayed 150/2 car, and these had the "1" replaced with a "0" to identify them as three car units - 150126 as an example becoming 150026 for the duration it had a 572xx or 577xx centre car.   

 

A number of West Mids 3 car 150s were transferred to Northern in late 2011. They were reformed back into their original 2 car pairs, with one 150/2 (150226) having odd colours for a few weeks as the 2 x 3 car sets that donated 52226 and 57226 had been painted in different colours.

Cheers,

Mick

[Jim Martin]

Just to be clear, when I mentioned a "class 158+156 combination" above, I meant a 4-car train: an entire class 158 and an entire class 156.

 

Jim

[AMJ]

There were photos on Facebook within minutes of the split. I know of friends on the station who posted pictures and jokey comments about perhaps they need some 3 link couplings.

 

It just serves to confirm how many different couplings there are fitted to prototype stock, nearly as bad as the discussion we have about couplings!

[tamperman36]

This incident has also highlighted the argument about the removal of guards from trains. If this was a D.O.O train there could have been a very grave danger for passengers, whereas the guard was able to take charge and keep the situation under control.

[The Stationmaster]

This incident has also highlighted the argument about the removal of guards from trains. If this was a D.O.O train there could have been a very grave danger for passengers, whereas the guard was able to take charge and keep the situation under control.

 

Was the Driver rendered incapable then?  Don't forget that whatever you might think of their abilities Guards are not, and never were, superhuman and can only be in one place at a time - and that place could just as easily be the car with the Driver in it as the other one.

[tamperman36]

No the driver wasn,t injured, I believe there were no injuries however the issue of the guard was highlighted on the local news on the day.

 

As a broader issue, surely there is a health and safety case to retain a guard on trains carrying passengers as if a D.O.O train was involved in an accident which left the driver unable to carry out there duties what would happen to the passengers. Another point is in an incident such as the Scotish unit derailment recently it would have been a case for the train crew to protect the derailed unit by placing detonators correctly which as it was single line would be needed in both directions.

[The Stationmaster]

No the driver wasn,t injured, I believe there were no injuries however the issue of the guard was highlighted on the local news on the day.

 

As a broader issue, surely there is a health and safety case to retain a guard on trains carrying passengers as if a D.O.O train was involved in an accident which left the driver unable to carry out there duties what would happen to the passengers. Another point is in an incident such as the Scotish unit derailment recently it would have been a case for the train crew to protect the derailed unit by placing detonators correctly which as it was single line would be needed in both directions.

 

But of course the H&S act preceded BR DOO(P) operation by more than a decade so would in any case have had to be taken into account when the conditions for DOO(P) were first considered and established. and the Rules relating to protection have of course taken into account the situation where various traincrew members are not available/are incapacitated for very many years.   (And I hate to say it but judging by quite a number of the Guards I have in the past examined on their knowledge of Rules & Regs I seriously doubt their absence would make much difference at all.  And yes, I have taken Guards out of the job due to poor R&R knowledge when I considered, after giving them several chances to get up to scratch, that they simply weren't up to it)

[iands]

No the driver wasn,t injured, I believe there were no injuries however the issue of the guard was highlighted on the local news on the day.

 

As a broader issue, surely there is a health and safety case to retain a guard on trains carrying passengers as if a D.O.O train was involved in an accident which left the driver unable to carry out there duties what would happen to the passengers. Another point is in an incident such as the Scotish unit derailment recently it would have been a case for the train crew to protect the derailed unit by placing detonators correctly which as it was single line would be needed in both directions.

 

One of the features of CSR (Cab Secure Radio) and GSMR is to monitor the DSD (Drivers Safety Device). In DOO(P) mode, if the driver becomes incapacitated, the DSD is "activated". This effectively alarms to the signaller who can access the trains' PA system and inform the passengers of what is happening, to stay calm, advise that assistance is on its way etc., etc.  Obviously the signaller won't be able to physically place dets on the line like a driver or guard would do, but he doesn't need to, he is the one that provides the ultimate protection for any train anyway.

 

Regards, Ian.

[w124bob]

Not forgetting with GSMR the minute an emergency broadcast goes out, driver or signaller activated all other trains within a certain area must stop. Acknowledge the call and wait instructions. I think both NR and all TOC's would like to do away with dets regardless of the guard/doo issue.

[The Stationmaster]

Not forgetting with GSMR the minute an emergency broadcast goes out, driver or signaller activated all other trains within a certain area must stop. Acknowledge the call and wait instructions. I think both NR and all TOC's would like to do away with dets regardless of the guard/doo issue.

 

There have been various moves afoot over several recent years to do away with dets and in some ways that is a good idea.  However with the steady retreat of track circuiting in favour of axle counters plus some areas still having poor radio reception and the ticklish business of bringing in an assistant train or loco there are still some valid reasons to retain them.  

 

But, more as an aside than entirely relevant to mainline operations, I invariably advise any heritage type railways I speak to regarding operational safety to have nothing at all to do with dets - they are a security problem even if stored safely and represent a considerable expense and admin & training task as well as posing a potential personnel safety hazard.

[Clive Mortimore]

Have they sorted out the problem at Leeds because my son is on his way there today?

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Have they sorted out the problem at Leeds because my son is on his way there today?

 

Yes, I was in the station on Thursday and Friday and their were no issues with regards to the separated train. 

 

Hope this helps.