nnich Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) On the advice found in the Hornby H class forum I purchased and fitted a Zen Micro ZN8D direct fit 8 pin decoder. It fits nicely in the available space and the loco runs excellently. However it came with a stay alive capacitor which I would like to fit and have located an available space almost tailor made in the bunker. When I had made sure the decoder itself was working and the loco running well I test fitted the stay alive, and this is where my question comes in. The decoder has a purple wire at one and and two wires at the other end - one blue and one black. The stayalive capacitor also has a blue and a black wire. No specific instructions were provided with the decoder but logic says connect the blue and the black wires together - blue to blue and black to black. When I test fit the capacitor in this manner the loco stops working and emits just a very low buzz. When I remove the capacitor again it works normally. Am I doing something wrong? Are my assumption about how to wire it incorrect? Thanks to anyone who can provide guidance Norm Edited February 10, 2018 by nnich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 No idea, but it may help if the title was changed to something reflecting reality. Zen decoders are made by DCC Concepts, nothing to do with Zimo. ( At the moment the thread title is as useful as "problem with my Honda Chevrolet Mustang" ). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pctrainman Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) It's only a thought and I could be completely wrong , but I thought Zimo provide solder pads for attaching stay alives ala Lenz Gold, hopefully someone with better knowledge than I can confirm this or consign it to the Bin . Edited February 10, 2018 by pctrainman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I think your assumption wiring it are correct (looking at the online manual) but no idea why its not working, maybe a duff stay alive. IFRC the H class has all wheel pick-ups so shouldn't really need it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 So just a quick side note on this, buying this: https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/decoder-zen-nano-8-pin-wired-2-function-wstay-alive/ means I get the two pieces seperate, IE, they're not already connected? A bit strange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2018 So just a quick side note on this, buying this: https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/decoder-zen-nano-8-pin-wired-2-function-wstay-alive/ means I get the two pieces seperate, IE, they're not already connected? A bit strange. Strange? But that is the deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Yeah, I just thought as they're getting the chips manufactured, they would have some that come joined from the factory. I mean, it's not Ikea That's like buying a ready to run model loco but you have to connect the wires to the motor yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2018 Going by the illustration I would also take it the blue/black wires coming out from the opposite end to those for the 8-pin were for the stay alive. It's just a thought, but the 8-pin is being fitted into the socket the right way around? Motor will still work but no lights, but if you have a loco with no lights...... I just wondered if the orientation might affect whether the stay alive works. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 So just a quick side note on this, buying this: https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/decoder-zen-nano-8-pin-wired-2-function-wstay-alive/ means I get the two pieces seperate, IE, they're not already connected? A bit strange. I guess they're catering for situations where the stay alive is fitted in a different space to the decoder as would have to be the case in the H Class. The only decoder i've ever fitted a stay alive to is a TCS DP2X-UK variant and IIRC i had to alter a CV to make it aware of the Stay alive. I don't see anything in the Zen manual that refers to this so maybe not necessay for the ZEN. I'd email DCC Concepts and see what they say, they're usually very quick with a response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted February 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2018 I've fitted a lot of these stayalives. You are correct in connecting blue to blue and black to black. I've never had the buzzing sound. I would say that the stayalives are pretty useless if they're the same as the ones I fitted a couple of years ago. The energy stored is insufficient to get the loco over an insulfrog point. DCC concepts have introduced a higher capacity capacitor, but I haven't made that work successfully as yet (still trying). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColHut Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Indeed the blue and black wires are joined. Instructions on their website I recall. Some people cannot find the space or or do not want the stay alives. I find them useful on some points and they do smooth out the running on my layout. The new stay alives are much Much bigger, and will likely not fit many smaller locos. YMMV. I have one in an old Ringfield tender drive Bittern Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnich Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 Indeed the blue and black wires are joined. Instructions on their website I recall. Some people cannot find the space or or do not want the stay alives. I find them useful on some points and they do smooth out the running on my layout. The new stay alives are much Much bigger, and will likely not fit many smaller locos. YMMV. I have one in an old Ringfield tender drive Bittern Many thanks for the confirmation. I will have to try this again. There is room in the bunker for the supplied stay aliveNorm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColHut Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 If it helps, the new large super cap stay alive on the Bittern will run it for a couple of yards. The others - very much smaller - 1/4"? Even then some locos seem to have very little space to accommodate a small SA. They can be separated from the chip by a fair distance, so chip in boiler and SA under coal or even under loco might work. I got two in my Holden Tank 0-4-0 large Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 I too am trying to fit the nano. I don’t know what the purple wire is for can I just leave it unconnected? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Thanks for that Richard. This is the first loc I have tried to convert. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 On 14 February 2018 at 20:41, thegreenhowards said: DCC concepts have introduced a higher capacity capacitor, but I haven't made that work successfully as yet (still trying). A little OT but what's the problem? I made some that have the same capacity and when I try them in a particular loco, the stay alive keeps the motor turning for about 4/5 seconds but then it stops. However, the (LED) lights stay on for about 20 more seconds before they get too dim for me to see. I think it's a Zimo chip so I wonder if the DCC signal timeout needs adjusting, and whether this could be a problem with the DCC Concepts stay alive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted July 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2019 10 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said: A little OT but what's the problem? I made some that have the same capacity and when I try them in a particular loco, the stay alive keeps the motor turning for about 4/5 seconds but then it stops. However, the (LED) lights stay on for about 20 more seconds before they get too dim for me to see. I think it's a Zimo chip so I wonder if the DCC signal timeout needs adjusting, and whether this could be a problem with the DCC Concepts stay alive. I have now made them work. The problem was with the decoder. While the decoder works fine, the stayalive made no difference. I tried two decoders with the same result. I then gave up for a bit, but when I came back to it, I tried a different DCC Concepts decoder and it worked fine. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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