Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

The problem with Burton ales is, thanks to the Midland Railway, they got all over the place.  

 

To say nothing of the North Western, Knotty, and Great Northern... Credit where credit is due. Photo does look rather 1960s by the poster and phone box - a period when distribution was not the only problem with Burton beer. 

[Edwardian]

37 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Swansea, it's Swansea.

 

I thought, "the stone viaduct either means the North, or, possibly, the West"

 

So, I thought I'd start with ports in the west and decided to start with Swansea as I recalled there was an elevated section of the GWR there.

 

I struck lucky:

 

 

Link

 

 

 

So, where in Swansea? The docks and railways went on forever.

 

 

So I reckon this is the locus in quo:

 

 

 

Turned upside down, this I think is the Bridge Inn:

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Edwardian

[Hroth]

I like the idea that there's a station for Thomas the Tank Engine...

 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Hroth said:

I like the idea that there's a station for Thomas the Tank Engine...

 

The station for abdominal organs is more impressive:

 

 

Though those who are not enthusiasts for Gothic Revival architecture might think it offal.

[Edwardian]

[groan]

[Annie]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Swansea, it's Swansea.

 

I thought, "the stone viaduct either means the North, or, possibly, the West"

 

So, I thought I'd start with ports in the west and decided to start with Swansea as I recalled there was an elevated section of the GWR there.

 

I struck lucky:

I am continually amazed by the sleuthing skills possessed by members of this parish.  I post a random 1960's ish photo of a scene I like and go away and have a nap for an hour or two and when I come back there's more pictures and a map or three.  Well done James!  🥇

Edited September 26, 2022 by Annie
can't spell for toffee

[Huckleberry_finn]

On 30/11/2018 at 03:22, Annie said:

Ah, - the arcane mysteries of GER tram engines.  I discovered why I had a G15 and a C53 tram engine both numbered '131' .  G15 131 was scrapped in 1907 and its number was passed to its C53 replacement.  Though since G15 131 wouldn't have been very old at that date I'm wondering how much of it's fabric ended up being reused on the C53 that replaced it.  I bet more than a few modellers who can't identify GER tram engines from quite a way way off have been caught out by that one.

So I couldn't have a G15 numbered '131' on my layout due to it no longer existing during the slightly rubberised time frame I've settled on.  Back to the numbers game and No.125 looked like a safe bet since it wasn't withdrawn until 1943; - so the former No.131 is now No.125.  I still needed another G15 and after a little more study I noted that No.128 was withdrawn in 1913.  A dastardly history twisting plot started to form in my mind.  What if on being withdrawn No.128 went to the Hopewood Tramway instead of the great engine shed in the sky.  For a few moments I had an image of Hopewood Tramway staff storming Stafford Works with the cry, 'Stand away from that small and innocent engine you foul miscreants!'  But more than likely somebody from the tramway's board of directors just went along to Stafford Works and purchased it.  Still it was a fun thought; - it's just a pity I can't draw for toffee or else I could set down the image I've got in my head for your edification and amusement.

 

 

It took about three tries to end up with 'Hopewood Tramway' lettering I liked.  The texture piece is compressed into place on the mesh, so that made it more difficult as well since I had to space and stretch the lettering out on the texture based on a not very certain guess as to how it might look when loaded into the simulator.  I've lightly weathered the lettering as well since the yellow was just a bit too vivid and didn't look right despite supposedly being the correct GER shade of colour.

 

 

Now this is really odd.  When No.125 was No.131 the footplate crew were nowhere to be found despite being properly scripted to be in place crewing the engine.  As soon as it became No.125 they turned up for work.  The footplate crew for No.128 turned up for work as well.  Digital footplate crews not wanting to work on engines that should not be existing anymore is definitely a new one on me!

Such odd looking engine?

Did you make these yourself?

[Compound2632]

51 minutes ago, Huckleberry_finn said:

Such odd looking engine?

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/Y/y6.php

https://www.lner.info/locos/J/j70.php

 

(Apologies for resorting to post-grouping nomenclature.)

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Compound2632

[Edwardian]

Some of the G15s were placed first on the duplicate list, gaining the 0 prefix. 

[Annie]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry_finn said:

Such odd looking engine?

Did you make these yourself?

Odd looking?  They are a pair of perfectly fine and healthy Great Eastern Railway G15 tram engines.  Odd looking indeed!

No I didn't make these models, - they were originally made by Michael Whiteley in 2015 for the TS2012 version of Trainz.  All I have done is improve their texture work along with some other adjustments to improve their running.

[Edwardian]

G15 numbers for C53s was a mix of re-using numbers from withdrawn locos and, later, taking numbers of duplicated locos.

 

Does this help?

 

G15s

 

Order No.   No.    Built      Duplicate List    Withdrawn  Notes

G15             130    1883                                     12/1909          No. given to C53, Order I67 of 1910 

G15             131    1883                                       9/1907          No. given to C53, Order P75 of 1914 

G15             132    1883                                     10/1931

N17             128    1885                                       3/1913          No. given to C53, Order P75 of 1914 

N17             129    1885           0129 1/1921     4/1933          No. given to C53, Order D85 of 1921

C29              125   1891/2        0125 1/1921     2/1940          No. given to C53, Order D85 of 1921

C29              126   1891/2        0126 1/1921     2/1940          No. given to C53, Order D85 of 1921 

C29              127   1891/2                                  12/1913          No. given to C53, Order P75 of 1914 

F40              133   1897                                        5/1951

F40              134   1897                                      11/1952

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Edwardian

[rocor]

21 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

I struck lucky:

 

 

Link

 

 

 

I am ashamed to say, that coming at it from a railway perspective, my first thought on seeing the picture was:-

 

" Oh, look an Autobianchi Giardiniera, that is a real rarity in the UK". 

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, rocor said:

" Oh, look an Autobianchi Giardiniera, that is a real rarity in the UK". 

 

Ah, but remember that South Wales had a considerable Italian population, selling ice-cream. 

 

And Adelina Patti, of course. 

[Edwardian]

11 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Ah, but remember that South Wales had a considerable Italian population, selling ice-cream. 

 

And Adelina Patti, of course. 

 

Yep. Big Italian community in Swansea and the Mumbles

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

G15 numbers for C53s was a mix of re-using numbers from withdrawn locos and, later, taking numbers of duplicated locos.

 

Does this help?

 

G15s

 

Order No.   No.    Built      Duplicate List    Withdrawn  Notes

G15             130    1883                                     12/1909          No. given to C53, Order I67 of 1910 

G15             131    1883                                       9/1907          No. given to C53, Order P75 of 1914 

G15             132    1883                                     10/1931

N17             128    1885                                       3/1913          No. given to C53, Order P75 of 1914 

N17             129    1885           0129 1/1921     4/1933          No. given to C53, Order D85 of 1921

C29              125   1891/2        0125 1/1921     2/1940          No. given to C53, Order D85 of 1921

C29              126   1891/2        0126 1/1921     2/1940          No. given to C53, Order D85 of 1921 

C29              127   1891/2                                  12/1913          No. given to C53, Order P75 of 1914 

F40              133   1897                                        5/1951

F40              134   1897                                      11/1952

 

 

 

 

Very useful James.  I know I had a similar list somewhere, but I seem to have misplaced it.

 

Edit: With at least two of my G15's I've done an alternative history with them being sold to the Hopewood Tramway instead of being withdrawn and broken up.  No.128 is one of them and from memory No.131127 is the other.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Annie
More words needed.

[Caley Jim]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Ah, but remember that South Wales had a considerable Italian population, selling ice-cream. 

As did the West of Scotland. Folk still take a day trip to Nardini's and visit Largs while they're there! 

 

Jim

[Metropolitan H]

On 26/09/2022 at 05:53, Annie said:

Afternoon Cheer Up Picture:  Still a favourite picture.  Johnston No.1 Class 2-4-0 No.47 at Swaffham Station sometime before 1910.

I had a bad day or two with not being well so that's why I haven't been here lately.

 

 

Sorry to hear you have been suffering from Covid (Long or otherwise) after effects. I hope you get fully recovered soon.

 

Now to the delightful picture of the No.1 class 2-4-0 at Swaffham. This took me back to my teenage days reading the MRN in the early (?) 1960s, where I saw pictures of the beautiful model made by Geoff Pember of one of those locos and separately a superb GER level crossing diorama. All rather superb.

 

Regards

Chris H

Edited September 27, 2022 by Metropolitan H

[Annie]

4 hours ago, Metropolitan H said:

Sorry to hear you have been suffering from Covid (Long or otherwise) after effects. I hope you get fully recovered soon.

Thank you very much Chris.  I seem to be doing better today with just some fatigue clinging on so I hope the trend continues.

 

Geoff Pember's models are beautiful pieces of craftsmanship so that No.1 class must've been a real treat.  Being a light and minor railways enthusiast as I am as well as being keen on smaller sized tank engines you can understand why I'd love to have one.

[Hroth]

This is a bit sideways for the virtual pre-grouping discussion*, but a bit ago I think this little Norfolk halt came up, I can't remember why, in a discussion and the original picture probably vanished in the recent Great Move.

 

  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidestrand_Halt_railway_station

 

Anyhow, I've just glued a piece of pre-used flexitrack to a board to test locos a bit more thoroughly** than applying a PP3 battery to the wheels, and I thought I'd pretty it up by landscaping it with a level crossing and a platform, and Sidestrand*** came to mind.  Luckily I'd kept a copy of the picture so I could find it.

 

Anyhow, I'd like some opinions on how long the platform should be. According to the Wikipedia article its "one coach length" but how long did the Norfolk and Suffolk Joint Railway consider a coach to be?  All I can tell from the photo is that it's much shorter than a Mk1...

 

Thanks!

 

* It might have been in the Castle Aching or Parish Council threads, but...

** Thoroughly = a proper DC controller or even DCC

*** I'd also thought of Llanbedr on the Cambrian line between Barmouth and Pwllheli, but thats been modernised to heck and looks more like a bus stop.

 

[Annie]

36 minutes ago, Hroth said:

This is a bit sideways for the virtual pre-grouping discussion*, but a bit ago I think this little Norfolk halt came up, I can't remember why, in a discussion and the original picture probably vanished in the recent Great Move.

 

I posted that picture in this thread sometime ago and since I always use Imgur.com it should still be here.  Don't ask me where though.

Now if I say that the fenceposts behind the platform are four feet apart and that there are 18 of them altogether roughly guesstimating how many from one ramp end to the other that's 72 feet altogether.  If the posts are five feet apart that's 90 feet.

So I would say no more than a 6 wheel coach and a van, - or at the very most two 4 wheel coaches.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

Anyhow, I'd like some opinions on how long the platform should be. According to the Wikipedia article its "one coach length" but how long did the Norfolk and Suffolk Joint Railway consider a coach to be?  All I can tell from the photo is that it's much shorter than a Mk1...

 

 

 

 

The halt opened in 1936 according to Wiki. I don't know what ran there in the Mid-thirties.

 

I'd guess something like ex-GER 50' corridor stock:

 

 

The MGN had 50' ex-LNWR corridors coaches and ex-NER matchboard corridors, which I would guess would be something like 52' (not really knowing anything about these) , both types being received in 1935.

 

EDIT:

 

I liked Annie's methodology, but though the 1-coach length should probably exclude the ramps. Now I may be wrong in my thinking about how the platform face lines up with the fence, but I ended up with a rather different result:

 

 

The supposed measurement that would make most sense to me is 6' between the posts, 9 x 6 = 54'.

 

Fence posts at 8' from centre line to centre line would seem reasonable for a lineside fence, but I have no examples to hand. These look to be closer but, of course, the foreshortening seems quite severe, so I'' guess 6'.

 

EDIT: If 8', that gets me to your 72'

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Edwardian

[Annie]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

The halt opened in 1936 according to Wiki. I don't know what ran there in the Mid-thirties.

 

I'd guess something like ex-GER 50' corridor stock:

For some reason I'd thought that Sidestrand opened in the pre-grouping era so that's why I automatically defaulted to 4 and 6 wheel coaches and not one of those new fangled bogie coaches.  I don't know if any motor train sets or driving trailers (push-pull) would have worked on the Norfolk & Suffolk Joint line, - though that little halt looks perfect for that kind of passenger service.

[Edwardian]

2 minutes ago, Annie said:

For some reason I'd thought that Sidestrand opened in the pre-grouping era so that's why I automatically defaulted to 4 and 6 wheel coaches and not one of those new fangled bogie coaches.  I don't know if any motor train sets or driving trailers (push-pull) would have worked on the Norfolk & Suffolk Joint line, - though that little halt looks perfect for that kind of passenger service.

 

According to Wiki it was open 1936 to 1953.

 

We keep crossing posts.  Have a look at mu amended post, which takes into account your fence post method. I get entirely different results, so much so that I am really confused over the length! play

[Annie]

20 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

We keep crossing posts.  Have a look at mu amended post, which takes into account your fence post method. I get entirely different results, so much so that I am really confused over the length! play

I was counting in the length of the ramps as well for an overall measurement of the platform so that's how I ended up with 72 feet.

Somewhere I have a drawing for GER lineside fencing, - I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Found!  6 foot 6 inches between posts.

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Annie
added a picture

[Edwardian]

11 minutes ago, Annie said:

I was counting in the length of the ramps as well for an overall measurement of the platform so that's how I ended up with 72 feet.

Somewhere I have a drawing for GER lineside fencing, - I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Found!

 

 

 

Excellent. So 58' 6"? 

 

In other words it accommodates a standard Grouping era corridor coach (57').