Seanem44 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I’m building a late crested era layout as that’s what all my current stock is. Thinking of picking up a Farish Midland 4F. All that I can find are the early crested variants for sale. Would it have been possible to find them with their early crests into the sixties? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Many locos carried the early crest into the 1960s. It wasn't introduced until 1957 and with works visits at about three year intervals, sometimes more, a surprising number got through the end of the decade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 There must be photos of a few out there with early crests in the 1960s, it is just a rather laborious job trawling through internet sites, books and magazines trying to find a photo of one. There were quite a lot of them, so chances are high. I have seen (although of no use to you, of course) a photo of a loco with GWR on its side tanks in the early 1960s, so a few did manage to survive in earlier condition. Mind you, given that they would have been given the late crest on works visits, the ones with early crests would have been in pretty poor external condition, with the crests hardly visible at all. Therefore, a good spray of weathering ought to give the right effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Early crests were quite common in the 1960s, a couple of re built Scots were withdrawn in 1962/3 still with early emblems. If the tender did not require a repaint then even a works visit in say 1960 a loco could be outshopped with the early emblem still in place. Remember locos went through works based on mileage so if locos were not doing big mileage’s then the works visits could be extended and then if it was a light repair then it would not get a full repaint, usually just the smoke box being touched up. There were enough examples so go ahead, anyway even if it was not prototypical Rule 1 applies! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 One of the known ones was USA Tank 30069 which kept it's early crest until withdrawal in July 1967. Photo here in 1966. http://www.semgonline.com/steam/usa_01.html Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted February 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2018 Which diesels carried the early crest? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanem44 Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 Which diesels carried the early crest? Pretty sure the 08s did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Virtually everything built before changing the emblem in 1956/7. Mostly black shunters though. The last BR diesels to carry that livery is easy. It was the two Class 01s that survived at Holyhead until 1979 - 1981. Withdrawn still in BR black with early crest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_01 Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 IIRC one of the preserved Fairburn tanks carried the 'cycling lion' until withdrawal in 1967. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 IIRC one of the preserved Fairburn tanks carried the 'cycling lion' until withdrawal in 1967. Ray. 42085: https://www.flickr.com/photos/80572914@N06/7475357282/in/photolist-cozaho 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2018 Didn't a black 08 last into the 70s not sure what crest it had Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPH 603 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Didn't a black 08 last into the 70s not sure what crest it had I feel like I may have seen something like that on Flickr... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2018 There must be photos of a few out there with early crests in the 1960s, it is just a rather laborious job trawling through internet sites, books and magazines trying to find a photo of one. There were quite a lot of them, so chances are high. I have seen (although of no use to you, of course) a photo of a loco with GWR on its side tanks in the early 1960s, so a few did manage to survive in earlier condition. There's a picture of 9710 on the web taken in 1960 still in shirtbutton livery which IIRC was last used c1942 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david ellis Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Some Class 08's in 1968 & 1970's http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p1051670273/h48010868#h48010868 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-35mm-colour-slide-08-shunter-D3248-at-Coventry-in-1971-/391922690981?nma=true&si=gyJ3%252FGUzdOjLZzizzN7%252BECWNcEY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 https://www.flickr.com/photos/95430950@N07/16595802744/in/album-72157639824210196/ http://dieselimagegallery.com/detail/51-D3052-1-S;-0019.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/ron_h/4752942656/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/11285320516/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/ron_h/5438883611/ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david ellis Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 D3052 at Willesden Depot, North London ,02/06/1972 https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3fb8a8_b03e6e0371024117a74815b7f6475031~mv2_d_3500_2532_s_4_2.jpg/v1/fill/w_659,h_470,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/3fb8a8_b03e6e0371024117a74815b7f6475031~mv2_d_3500_2532_s_4_2.webp 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2018 Not quite what the OP meant, but the 25kv AL series electrics carried aluminium unicycling lions until the general introduction of the arrows of indecision in 1966 and for some time afterwards for those not overhauled and repainted, as did D1000 Western Enterprise. Some of the steam liveried Woodhead 1,500v DC electrics must have carried unicycling lions well into the 60s as well. IIRC, and there is no guarantee that I do, boiler certificates were for 7 years, so a loco would need it's boiler taken out and replaced by a spare at the end of that period (it took longer to overhaul a boiler that the rest of the loco, so locos changed boilers to keep them in service), and this would be in theory the longest a loco would run without having the sort of overhaul that needed a full repaint, so a loco repainted just before a crest change in 1958 could still be carrying the old crest in 1965, by which time it would be probably up for withdrawal. But towards the end of steam locos with low mileages in good mechanical condition might be given a spare boiler without a full repaint, and the old livery lasts a bit longer. Overhauls were done on a mileage basis and boiler replacements on a time basis, so there is a possibility of overlap here. Another possibility, especially during the late 50s and towards the very end of steam when cleaning was neglected, is that the new crest wore off revealing the previous one beneath it. If you could see a crest underneath the clag at all, that is! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Slight correction: normal boiler life was five years. It could then be inspected and if acceptable the certificate could be extended by up to twelve months. After a further in-depth inspection, it could be extended by up to another twelve months, which is where the seven years comes from. But after that, it had to be changed or overhauled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted March 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2018 So, the obvious question is......do we have photographic evidence of a loco or coach carrying the early BR lion next to, or in the same train as, one with BR arrows? (Aside from during the preservation era, obviously). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted March 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) I thought the AC electrics and D1000 had the 'ferret & dartboard' style lion? The EM1s had the unicycling lion while in black livery, but the other lion when in green/early blue - 76022 took the later totem to the scrapyard, late 70s/early 80s? Edited March 2, 2018 by keefer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david ellis Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 76022 with later crest in blue livery at Reddish Depot on 28th June 1980 https://www.flickr.com/photos/jjm2009/13714165634/in/photolist-7mhqMA-ahpUec-bD3nps-iWzRZE-cY3ec1-aeBySr-5FpZBM-4psgWM-a8cRe8-fPwN4J-mTSFDC-HAgRD6-4vBo4z-Fag7KC-PL95Sy-hLVSuA-ekEsGf-6b6Zj7-9q2yeS-97yyh5-dUdk9M-CPx5v3-YrRK4f-dVHCsw-81P1bL-bsyS4e-bsBwFf-dUD8bo-8Jc7FT-Tm2zkv-cvUzBC 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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