Regency Rails - Georgian, Williamine & Early Victorian Railways

[Mikkel]

5 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

I'm browsing this on a phone, but if those are actual figures they are among the most convincing 4mm figures I have seen. Model-U watch out.

 

[magmouse]

1 hour ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

and I don't expect people to agree with me.

 

Sorry to disappoint - I completely agree with you. Some of the best* modelling is not the most highly accurate or detailed - think of the work of those early pioneers, George Iliffe Stokes and John Ahern. Their models were filled with atmosphere and a sense of place, even when they didn't represent a real place. Equally, we have probably all seen models that are highly accurate but somehow lack that crucial something.

 

For me, I am aiming for character in my models - what are the specific qualities of, say, a wagon that make it distinctively itself? Sometimes that needs careful attention to accuracy and detail, but sometimes those are not so important, I find.

 

Nick.

 

* 'best' being highly subjective of course - for me, it is a model that invokes another time and place.

[Northroader]

Agreed, paintings of early railways are always going to form a good basis for a model:

 

Edited February 11 by Northroader

[Dana Ashdown]

For anyone really interested in the historic background to Locomotion, I would suggest reading the following report from Michael Bailey and Peter Davison. Locomotion, as preserved, is largely a creation of an 1856/7 attempt at preservation using parts in store. There is very little of the original Locomotion in the preserved engine!

 

https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/sites/default/files/2023-10/Pages from LOCOMOTION report part 1.pdf

 

https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/sites/default/files/2023-10/Pages from LOCOMOTION report part 2.pdf

[Northroader]

Thanks for that, Dana, it’s a fascinating read. I was on the last year of my apprenticeship when we had the two locos, Locomotion and Derwent, into the works from off their plinths at Bank Top station. At the time the erecting shop had just had a rebuild of one half of one of the bays to take in main line diesels. All the pits had been filled in and a smooth concrete surface applied, then painted over green with lines, so that it looked almost like a tennis court. The first occupants were these two locos plonked down in the middle, looking very incongruous.

A lot of the woodwork was replaced, and there was one story of replacement bolts being needed for some work. They thought a rather antique finish was needed, so the job was given to one blacksmith well known for his rough work, without telling him what they were for. The later careful archaeological approach wasn’t at that time being applied, it was more just tittivating the engines up.

[phil_sutters]

Andrew Stadden has other ideas about Victorian loco crews' head gear. As a sculptor of highly accurate military models, I expect he did a spot of research before modelling these.

https://www.acstadden.co.uk/product-page/oo11-victorian-enginemen

Edited February 16 by phil_sutters

[1825steam]

Active/Locomotion through its working life! the preserved engine uses the boiler of Diligence and the other parts are just bits at hand, made up to look like how they thought it looked which sadly it doesnt, these are early tests, engine are based on Dr. Baileys report, the tenders I am currently updating to fit in with the working life of the engine

Edited May 9 by 1825steam
tender update

[whart57]

Picked up today, from the pile of secondhand books in the cafe at Pendon museum would you believe, The British Railway Locomotive 1803-1853, published by the Science Museum in 1958. A pound well spent as it's an interesting little booklet, with side views of all the famous early locomotives plus a few more unusual ones like a Tayleur goods loco for the Leicester and Swannington and Sharps standard passenger 2-2-2 of 1847.

 

Also a history of the SECR but covering the years up to 1845 - i.e. before the line was complete to Dover.

Edited May 19 by whart57

[Tom Burnham]

13 hours ago, whart57 said:

 

Also a history of the SECR but covering the years up to 1845 - i.e. before the line was complete to Dover.

At that time, my local station, Staplehurst, was the railhead for everywhere from Maidstone to Hastings, by turnpike road.  I came across a complaint in the press around 1843 from someone who had got the train to Staplehurst as the first stage in their journey to Hastings, only to find that the stage coach had been retimed and he'd missed the connection. The connecting coach timetable on display at London Bridge still showed the old times....

[whart57]

The Rail Replacement bus service has a long history!

[magmouse]

2 hours ago, whart57 said:

The Rail Replacement bus service has a long history!

 

Or in this case, the bus replacement rail service...

[Dunalastair]

Getting distracted from recent discussions about the London & Blackwall in cable worked days, I have been looking this morning at the original Haymarket station opened by the E&GR in 1842, before the extension was tunnelled under the city through to what became The Waverley.

 

https://www.nationaltransporttrust.org.uk/heritage-sites/heritage-detail/the-edinburgh-glasgow-railway

 

A contemporary account by Wlllox  runs as follows :

 

On proceeding about half a mile farther west from St John's, through AтHOLL and COATES CRESCENTS, we arrive at the BOOKING-OFFICE of the EDINBURGH AND GLASGOW RAILWAY COMPANY, an elegant and commodious building, of two storeys, with a handsome colonnade in front, immediately behind which is the large shed for the accommodation of passengers. It is a singularly elegant erection, and admirably adapted to its purpose its dimensions are magnificent, being upwards of 220 feet in length and 80 feet in width ; the roof is of iron, and richly ornamented, supported on sixty handsome cast-iron columns, beautifully enriched with appropriate capitals ; they are arranged in three rows, the effect of the whole being exceedingly picturesque and pleasing. In addition to the shed, there are ample and numerous Waiting-rooms, together with every accommodation for the convenience and comfort of passengers. About a furlong west from this is the Shed for locomotive-engines ; and Tank for filling the tenders, which is supplied with water from awell sunk in the depot, raised by a fixed steam-engine of six horse-power, which is also used for the purpose of blowing the smiths' forges, and other useful operations. Here also are situated the workshops belonging to the Company, between which and the Passengers' Shed are ample goods- sheds, carriage-sheds, and an inclined plane for loading and unloading of goods, waggons, carriage and horse trucks, &c. The whole area of the Depot is about nine acres, and is admirably suited for the purposes of the Railway.

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RpwHAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

The depot, latterly 64B, has been modelled, but the original station seems neglected by comparison. The southern half of the train shed was apparently demolished at the end of the 19th century, and the remainder at the end of the 20th, albeit eight bays were saved and re-erected at SPPS Bo'ness. The main station building of course survives, albeit with a substantial 21st century addition. There are drawings on the Canmore website, and maps on NLS. 

 

The original layout seems to have been two platforms, with four tracks between, probably with turntables to move carriages between lines, judging by recesses in the platform edges. The trainshed re-erected at Bo'ness seems to have a slate roof without glass rooflights or vents (as indeed it was when the platform was used as a car park in the 1960s), so the station might have been a dark and smoky place, even in days when locos burned coke rather than coal.

 

By contrast to other early lines, and indeed to the Waverley or Queen Street, there seem to be few contemporary engravings (never mind photographs) of the original station on which to base a model or diorama. John Thomas describes the challenging experience of an early 3rd class journey from Queen Street (with open carriages well up the sooty tunnel) but not the arrival in the capital. He also tabulates the rapid increase in traffic from the original four trains each way, and the Sabbatarian battles.

 

Any suggestions on where further information might be found? 

 

 

Edited May 22 by Dunalastair

[Victorian]

I've come late to this thread. I'm working on Active / Locomotion as part of the G1MRA 3D Group's contribution to Rail 200 next year. Here's the 3D printed prototype of the 1828 Active in 1/32 scale Gauge 1 based on Michael's paper:

 

 

This is printed (by Shapeways) in MJF nylon (main structure) and SLS nylon for the moving parts. It will be tender drive, currently using 1825Steam's rendition in the post above as a guide. The intention is to produce all four versions - 1825 with slidebars, 1828 (this one), 1834 single flue and as Locomotion as preserved.

 

The model does move and here's it's debut at the recent Key Model World Live show in the NEC:

 

 

It gets a lot of interest! Hornby were also showing their prototype at the show and I have to say it's exquisite!

[Fair Oak Junction]

Marvellous! Lovely to see one of its in service configurations in model form 👌

[rockershovel]

You don't feel that posting a static photo to demonstrate that it moves us somehow.... missing the point?

[Victorian]

I got sidetracked. Here's a short video:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/luzsi72b3dafrzd10mjnt/Active-and-Big-Boy-TMWL-24.mp4?rlkey=6row7l9nvs4sj1hrwaa8uvnvr&st=mvi57cdd&dl=0

[Caley Jim]

4 hours ago, Victorian said:

I got sidetracked. Here's a short video:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/luzsi72b3dafrzd10mjnt/Active-and-Big-Boy-TMWL-24.mp4?rlkey=6row7l9nvs4sj1hrwaa8uvnvr&st=mvi57cdd&dl=0

I've had to request access to this site!

 

Jim

[Victorian]

So sorry. This should work:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/luzsi72b3dafrzd10mjnt/Active-and-Big-Boy-TMWL-24.mp4?rlkey=6row7l9nvs4sj1hrwaa8uvnvr&st=l162xl60&dl=0

[Dunalastair]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

So sorry. This should work:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/luzsi72b3dafrzd10mjnt/Active-and-Big-Boy-TMWL-24.mp4?rlkey=6row7l9nvs4sj1hrwaa8uvnvr&st=l162xl60&dl=0

 

Still asks for a signup ...

[billbedford]

13 minutes ago, Victorian said:

So sorry. This should work:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/luzsi72b3dafrzd10mjnt/Active-and-Big-Boy-TMWL-24.mp4?rlkey=6row7l9nvs4sj1hrwaa8uvnvr&st=l162xl60&dl=0

 

To be available without a sign-in the file must be in Dropbox's Public folder. 

 

Or try this:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/luzsi72b3dafrzd10mjnt/Active-and-Big-Boy-TMWL-24.mp4

Edited May 23 by billbedford

[Victorian]

Doh! Perhaps this YT link will work: 

 

[Dunalastair]

Success! Thankyou. Look forward to seeing the final version here.

[Dunalastair]

On 22/05/2024 at 10:59, Dunalastair said:

[Haymarket] main station building of course survives, albeit with a substantial 21st century addition. There are drawings on the Canmore website, and maps on NLS. The original layout seems to have been two platforms, with four tracks between, probably with turntables to move carriages between lines, judging by recesses in the platform edges. The trainshed re-erected at Bo'ness seems to have a slate roof without glass rooflights or vents (as indeed it was when the platform was used as a car park in the 1960s), so the station might have been a dark and smoky place, even in days when locos burned coke rather than coal.

 

 

The clock on the roof is perhaps one of the most distinctive features of the station building at Haymarket - but is it original? The Canmore drawing of the structure in its original form does show the clock, but that artwork seems to be dated 1980, and I'm not sure what the illustration might have been based on - and hence how authentic to the 1842 'as built' condition it is.

https://canmore.org.uk/site/52720/edinburgh-haymarket-terrace-edinburgh-to-glasgow-railway-haymarket-railway-station

 

Searching the National Records of Scotland catalogue does not immediately turn anything specific up, though there might be something in

https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/details.aspx?reference=RHP83740&st=1&tc=y&tl=n&tn=n&tp=n&k=edinburgh+and+glasgow+railway&ko=p&r=&ro=s&df=1842&dt=1842&di=y

1. Plan and sections of Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway various works, including extension of line from Haymarket to North Bridge and other works:
2. Book of reference (standing orders bound in)

 

I have also had a quick look on the NBSG website, but cannot immediately see any articles on the station - though of course it was probably just called 'Edinburgh' when opened, not 'Edinburgh Haymarket' or simply 'Haymarket'. 

 

One nice snippet I read (I think in John Thomas) is that the Railway originally operated to Edinburgh time, not London. I wonder how this went down in Glasgow? The choice of time zone presumably reflected the company boardroom being situated on the top floor of the Haymarket building. 

 

[Dunalastair]

I have been comparing the various maps and images of Haymarket over the years to visualise how a possible diorama with 3D printed buildings might look. This screengrab seems to be the earliest townplan on NLS - note the first tunnel through to Waverley. 

 

 

There seem to be pleasant gardens and a sweeping driveway - rather a contrast to later years. But I still cannot understand why the station block and the trainshed were built at an angle to each other. Even the recent rebuild had an awkward gap to fill. Any suggestions?

[Boldon Boy]

Dunalastair

Was it perhaps to set the facade of Haymarket station at 90deg to the axis of West Maitland Street?   Edinburgh was quite good at that sort of thing.