Regency Rails - Georgian, Williamine & Early Victorian Railways

[Worsdell forever]

Is it me, or has the artist struggled a bit with the immensely difficult task of drawing horses in perspective from above?

 

He's struggled with the number of tracks over the bridge, it was double.

[tractionman]

I was in the Science Museum in London with my kids recently, and paid homage to The Rocket and Puffing Billy--great to be able to get so up close and personal with these two icons of railway history:

 

 

cheers,

 

Keith

[runs as required]

He's struggled with the number of tracks over the bridge, it was double.

and built of stone not brick.

[Killian keane]

I was in the Science Museum in London with my kids recently, and paid homage to The Rocket and Puffing Billy--great to be able to get so up close and personal with these two icons of railway history:

 

DSC_0613 (2).JPG

 

cheers,

 

Keith

Drawing of Puffing Billy in its current state

[sem34090]

And how am I to do the valve gear?!

 

I take it this is a hint, Mr Keane?

[Killian keane]

And how am I to do the valve gear?!

 

I take it this is a hint, Mr Keane?

Not subtle enough to be deemed a hint Mr Missenden! Hmmm

[sem34090]

Don't call me that! They'll know I'm employed by the Tsar, you ask that Mr O'doolight!

[Caley Jim]

And how am I to do the valve gear?!

With difficulty!!  

 

Jim

[Killian keane]

May I present 'Perseverance" from the pennydarren tramway, immortalised in a painting by Robin Barnes, there exists a great account of travelling behind this engine, an antique even in the 1840s

Some more work by the same artist http://www.robinbarnes.net/

Edited June 21, 2018 by Killian keane

[JCL]

You know, with the double chimney, it has the look of an ox  in full strain about it.

[Edwardian]

Stalemate at the Causey Arch on Tanfield Wagonway, County Durham, 1750

Painting by Brian Fawcett.

 

 

The depiction of the bridge is too narrow for the Causey Arch.  I believe that it carried two tracks.  I think that is accepted fact, but I would in any case estimate that it is wide enough for two tracks. 

 

Two tracks was the system, a "Main Way", which carried the loaded wagons, and a more lightly laid "Bye Way" for the returning empties. 

 

It is said that 930 wagons crossed the bridge in each direction daily, and every 20 seconds a wagon went by, with on average only 50' between each wagon and the one following it.  To cut the line to single track over the bridge would have risked a bottle neck, as your illustration suggests, and it would have been unnecessary to do so given the width of the bridge.

 

Ironically, use declined due to pit closures between 1733 and 1740, so the picture is set post its busy heyday.

 

Photographs taken in 2014.

[Edwardian]

Just noticed, that's the Memsahib and Tabitha in the second picture!

[Annie]

[Killian keane]

The 200th anniversary of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway takes place in 2030, as such thoughts have been turning to a replica Northumbrian and Duke of Wellingtons train to be completed for that date, the boiler and tender drawings from Planet will be carried over to Northumbrian and a facebook group has been formed for those interested

Just a pity the (wooden petrol powered) 1930 replica was left to rot and thereafter disposed of

Edited July 28, 2018 by Killian keane

[Compound2632]

I read that as a replica Duke of Wellington - but of course character actors will be needed. Bags I not Huskisson.

[runs as required]

Talking of the L&M, the Rocket is on display presently in the Discovery Museum (a conversion of a spectacular old High Victorian Co-op red brick palace) as part of the Great North Exhibition in Newcastle not far from the Stephensons' Forth Street works.

It is difficult to calmly study it because of its huge popularity with kids (I'm not complaining though).

. 

We have to remind ourselves this heroic old survivor has been conserved 'as found' from a locked outbuilding on the Earl of Carlisle's Brampton Railway. It differs greatly from Rocket as prepared for the Rainhill trials.

Walking around I had to remind myself of the differences - easiest to notice was the addition of an easily accessable smoke box - and a buffer beam for propelling a train. It was less easy was to recall the missing firebox; I attach a drawing I found on the web - apparently without a wrap around water jacket, just a water space above the fire .

What I could not establish was the probable boiler pressure - I'd imagine rather less than 100 lbs/sq".

 

Another obvious change was the repositioning to a lesser inclination of the cylinders and flat valve chest compare to Rainhill. I could not follow the route of exhaust steam from the valves to the famous turning of the blastpipe into the chimney to boost the draught, nor could I properly understand the levers from the Stephenson eccentrics to the rotating cross rod between the cylinders to effect cut off and reversal (other than it being a lot easier at a lower inclination).

"Well worth a deviation" as the Michelin man used to say in his Guides.

dh

[whart57]

The lower inclination of the cylinders is much as contemporary pictures of the opening of the Liverpool and Manchester show Northumbrian's to be. Presumably the Stephensons learned a few things from the Rainhill trials and did a bit of spannering between then and the opening of the L&M. I would guess that the higher placement of the cylinders caused rough riding at speed and this was cured by making them lie almost horizontal. Moving them inboard, as the Stephensons did with their next offering Planet created the template for most 19th century loco design

Edited August 3, 2018 by whart57

[Killian keane]

She isn't as found at Brampton, she was restored in 1851 by stephensons for the great exhibition (she never actually went) and as a result the chimney isn't original, on arrival at the science museum the rear wheels were replaced and she was 'un-restored' to a degree

[Ian Simpson]

I've tried to sort out Rocket's evolution to my own satisfaction (thus setting the bar conveniently low), mostly using Michael Bailey and John Glithero's (2002) The Stephensons' Rocket; A history of a pioneering locomotive (NRM, York):

 

(a) A few weeks after the Liverpool and Manchester line opened, one of Rocket's tender axles broke, killing a rail enthusiast who had hitched an unauthorised ride. Because Rocket was already outdated, the company decided to add several improvements to the general repairs: a steam dome, an internal steam pipe, a shorter chimney, a raised fire grate  and a smoke-box and ash-box. The improvements allowed Rocket to be upgraded from goods to passenger trains.

 

(b) But in January 1831 Rocket was badly damaged when it came off the rails and fell on its side. This is when the repairing contractors lowered the cylinder angle to the near horizontal position (along the way, swopping over and inverting the two cylinders). This work also added the large, cylinder-carrying frames ,as well as the front buffer beam.

 

© In the autumn of 1831 Rocket was involved in a collision while loaned to the Wigan Branch Railway. The cylinders were re-bored and improved pistons fitted, but there were no visible changes that I can see.

 

(d) Following a few years relegated to L&M works traffic, Rocket was sold to the Earl of Carlisle for colliery work at Naworth in Oct 1836. Although Bailey and Giithero talk about "further repairs and modifications" before it went into service, the main visible change that I can see is the extensions bolted beneath the front buffer beam to work with chauldron wagons.

 

(e) The colliery withdrew Rocket from service around 1840, storing it in a shed at Kirkhouse. During storage all its brass and copper components were sold off for scrap, reducing it to an outline of the loco.

 

(f) In 1851 there was a plan to show Rocket at the Great Exhibition, and it was sent to Robert Stephenson's factory for refurbishment. But the plan fell through because so many fittings had been stripped and sold; Rocket was simply pushed into a corner of the factory and left there.

 

(g) Stephenson & Co did do some refurbishment after the loco was donated to the Patent Office in 1862, but seem to have done rather a poor job which "resulted in an artefact that represented neither its original nor its end-of-service appearance". Eventually Rocket made its way to the Science Museum, where the curator Ernest Forward tried to restore it to a more accurate condition, including the replacement chimney fitted in 1936.But otherwise Forward seems to have just removed the incorrect later additions, rather than replacing them with more accurate ones.

 

That's probably more detail than most people need, but I thought it might be worth posting it for reference. Various drawings were produced during the 1830s and 1840s because of the Rocket's historic significance, and I think it's useful to be able to spot the changes that had taken place over time. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Ian Simpson

[Killian keane]

After the accident on the Wigan Branch Railway one of the driving wheels had to be completely re-made which means now only one wheel on rocket is original

[runs as required]

I've tried to sort out Rocket's evolution to my own satisfaction (thus setting the bar conveniently low), mostly using Michael Bailey and John Glithero's (2002) The Stephensons' Rocket; A history of a pioneering locomotive (NRM, York):....That's probably more detail than most people need, but I thought it might be worth posting it for reference. Various drawings were produced during the 1830s and 1840s because of the Rocket's historic significance, and I think it's useful to be able to spot the changes that had taken place over time.

 

Thank you, your post is a very useful clarification of what could roughly be deduced by comparison of the replica and the conserved original.

There was an early General Arrangement engineering drawing, on display in very low light to preserve against UV fade of the delicate artifacts, perhaps prepared in the Forth St works as Stephensons were preparing it for the 'no show' at the 1851 Great Exhiibition -at least it made it to this one.

dh

[Hroth]

Thanks for all the info about the evolution of Rocket.  It'll be useful for when I go to see it at Newcastle this week!

 

So what's "original" about the loco on display?

 

I suppose you can say the boiler and cylinders are more or less as built, and that at least one driver turned at Rainhill.  However, as the replacement driver needed after the Wigan Branch Railway incident was only fitted three years after Rainhill, it may as well be classed as "original".  So as far as originality goes, I suppose we're lucky to have even that!

 

The interesting thing is that Rocket only had a "useful" lifespan of about ten years, though I suppose that it was good going for an experimental loco built to win a race....   Some of BRs pilot scheme locos over a century later didn't do any better!

[Nearholmer]

The thing I thought was fascinating about Rocket when I spent half an hour staring carefully at in the Science Museum was the frames and the way they relate to the boiler.

[runs as required]

A long retired Sir Humphrey (who claims to have invented the word "sustainability" overnight to save the first UN World Environment Conference in Rio  from collapse !) always talks at our annual get-together of the Early Railways Conferences at York he attends and a Journal he receives.

 

Looking on line there seems to be a plethora of groups and publications clustered around this Conference  - do any posters on this thread have any experience,  recommendations or ponters/links to offer

with thanks....

dh

[Killian keane]

Replica Sharpie 2-2-2 Odin stretching her wheels for the first time a few days ago