Asda/Sainsburys Merger

[The Lurker]

I feel quite sorry for those unfortunates who are forced to stoop to the level of shopping at Waitrose, I for one simply refuse to go anywhere other than Fortnum & Mason.

you mean you actually go to the shop? Surely Fortnum deliver?

[The Lurker]

For balance I have to add that I have been using Ocado online every week (apart from when away on holiday) for well over two years now, and have never encountered that level of missing items. Ok, I do get the isolated one, but I would say that that a missing item appears perhaps twice a year at most (in fact I have just looked back through my text history and the last one I had was on 13th Dec last year). 

 

Yes I get the occasional substitution, but usually that is a like for like (a Waitrose/Ocado own brand swap for instance) replacement and I always have the choice to not accept it if I don't want to. 

 

I finally chose Ocado over shopping at the Waitrose in town because the online Ocado choice is Waitrose ++, there are far more specialist items on the Ocado website than are available on the Waitrose shelves and I do not enjoy shuffling around supermarkets at the best of times. 

 

I am so happy with Ocado that the only event which would make me take my custom elsewhere is the, occasionally rumoured, buyout of the company by Amazon as an expansion to their delivery service.

I would pretty much echo this - we have been using Ocado since Mrs Lurker was pregnant with Younger Lurker; at the time she told me "it's transformed my life", which I guess was the hormones! We rarely get missing items (though there were 2 this week). The advantage Ocado have over most of the other supermarket deliveries is that the goods come from the warehouses and not from the local store, which means the risk of out of date or damaged goods is reduced somewhat. I don't know how Morisson's deliveries work - they are if I understand it correctly  run by Ocado but I don't know the sourcing.

 

Sidcup high street has marginally improved over the last few years, ironically since the Somerfields/Co-op closed down under the pain of competition from the Morissons. We finally got our Waitrose (oh how the Guardian sneered...) but since then a number of other shops have opened to replace Chinese medicine shops and charity shops, and we still have a butchers and a bakers and a green grocers. It's still not a major Destination, mind, and those who want to visit a decent bricks and mortar model railway shop (Invicta) need only get out by the station and never venture up the hill to the High Street...!

[Il Grifone]

Using killing and guns in the same sentence seems unfortunate 

 

Unfortunate but appropriate... 

[Zomboid]

I did figure that Ocado would have gone out of business a long time ago if my experience was normal.

 

I'll never trust them again though.

[jjb1970]

you mean you actually go to the shop? Surely Fortnum deliver?

 

Yes, but half the fun is berating the staff when I visit, I never miss an opportunity to treat the working class badly and to administer a sound thrashing with my stick.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Are you sure? I thought 4004 was withdrawn in 1948 and broken up at Swindon!

 

Or 1869 for the original Broad Gauge one..........  

[County of Yorkshire]

One of the major reasons for smaller shops closing is the increasing commercial rates levied by a local council.

 

A big player will move into an area. They will 'tell' the council how much they will pay, usually not a lot, and well under the going rate. For this, they will put a council over the barrel. "Accept this, or we'll move elsewhere'.

 

The shopkeeper now has 2 issues. One is the major player competitor, the second is the local council pushing up the rates from the council, trying to make up the rateable shortfall.

 

Newport, Isle of Wight is a ghost town of its former self. The main shopping artery is now a half of what it was in 1997, when I moved there.

 

Never mind, the McDonalds is still there, looking after the local Chavanistas....

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

 

I am sorry but this is simply not true. All business premises in the UK have their rateable value (RV's) set by the national VOA (Valuations Office Agency), and the subsequent business rate multiplier is also set by Whitehall. Any business failing to pay its rates bill without legitimate reason is tax evasion, pure and simple. Local councils therefore have a responsibility for two things: 

 

A) Collecting the business rates owed (thus, a business tenant in a £50,000 rated premises, and with a rates multiplier of 47p in the pound would pay £23,500 in business rates to the local council every year, and you'd be surprised how large a £50,000 rated premises can be).

 

B) Administering rate relief to eligible organisations such as charities and small businesses who qualify for Small Business Rate Relief (SBRR). SBRR sees 100% rates relief for all businesses occupying premises with a rateable value under £12,000, and a sliding scale of relief up to RV's of £15,000, and believe it or not the vast majority of independent small local businesses - newsagents, hair salons, pet shops, DIY shops - tend to fall into the SBRR bracket, much to their satisfaction. A business can still have more than one premises and claim SBRR but if the cumulative RV's across more than one premises is over £15,000 you don't get any SBRR - this tends to protect the small independents and doesn't give a tax break to the national chains with many small outlets, which you have to say is fair and reasonable.

 

Your inference about special treatment for big business is not grounded in any reality that I've been in. Yes, there is occasional rate relief available via designated 'Enterprise Zone' status but these are typically reserved areas for businesses investing in big capital projects to establish a new or expanded manufacturing facilities and logistics hubs (think docks, airports and railway hubs) and who are thus creating long-term job posts that number in the hundreds and sometimes thousands. 

 

Whether business rates are a fair, logical and progressive form of tax in 21st century Britain; who is to say? Personally I am of the option that they are often a blunt instrument that resembles the infamous window tax, but one thing's for certain and that is that I am sick to the back teeth of business rates being used as a stick to beat local authorities with.

 

 

CoY

Edited May 2, 2018 by County of Yorkshire

[APOLLO]

 

 

 I am sick to the back teeth of business rates being used as a stick to beat local authorities with.

 

Let's try potholes then !!!!

 

brir15

[The Stationmaster]

Let's try potholes then !!!!

 

brir15

 

Wrong way round - potholes are what the local authorities use to beat their Council Tax payers (or more accurately the vehicles belonging to their Council Tax payers).

[Il Grifone]

Let's try potholes then !!!!

 

brir15

 

Someone has come up with a brilliant idea of increasing the tax on petrol/diesel to create a fund to deal with potholes. I was under the impression that the Road Fund Licence Vehicle Excise Duty (or whatever) was originally set up for this purpose (but has since been dipped into by various politicans...).

Councils have had their funds from central government reduced and council tax frozen in the name of 'austerity'. Something has to give.

 

I've a feeling the new warehouses blighting our neighbourhood (they do hide some awful tower blocks!) benefit from the preferential business rates, (Not certain on this point.)

 

At this point I'll stop....

Edited May 4, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Sir TophamHatt]

I find most of [the food from Asda] food bland and tasteless.

Out of interest, is this processed foods, or a plain piece of chicken?

 

I think many people are under the impression different shops order different things. For some grocery items, yes, but many are given by the supplier.

 

For example Corn Flakes.

 

El-Cheapo, Own Brand, Branded.

You'll find the el-cheapo and own brand are the same whether you buy them from Asda, Sainsburys, Morrisons or Tesco.

No they aren't I hear you cry!

 

So that means Asda, Sainsburys, Tesco, Morrisons all have their own factory pumping out this cereal. But what about Shreddies? Or Weetabix? That's 12 factories just for those cereals alone. What about bread? Certain cakes? Jelly? Milk? Hot chocolate? Milkshake? Orange juice cartons? Choclate sweets? Coffee? Tea? There aren't that many factories in the UK producing foods

 

The supplier will say to Asda et al they have a budget product and a more expensive product. So no matter what supermarket you buy it at, it's the same. Aldi and Lidl are different though as their fake Cadburys (Dairy Fine?) IS different. To be fair on them, the Blackcurrant hi-juice tastes like Ribena.

 

Ergo, if it's tasteless at one supermarket, it should be at another too.

 

 

 

I wonder whether this is also the effect of psychology.

For example I know people who buy Asda own brand butter (proper butter usually near the milk) because "it's better" even though it has EXACTLY the same ingredients as the smart price version.

I don't have a photo right now but will add the one I took in due course.

 

 

 

Although even more interestingly reading from the first few posts is that people assumed Asda and Sainsburys would start closing stores left right and centre, when they've said the supermarkets cater for different people (snobs and not-snobs?) and thus they'd keep both.

AND that Walmart is keeping their stake (40%) in Asda.

 

 

 

One of the major reasons for smaller shops closing is the increasing commercial rates levied by a local council.

I'd suggest it's more the laziness of people.

 

I order most things from Amazon instead of going to a store to find it.

 

For groceries, click and collect. I can order one day, collect the next day free at an off-peak time on my way home from work.

 

I suspect within 10 years there will be slightly less supermarkets but more warehouses that the home delivery people fill up their vans and head out.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Sir TophamHatt

[Mark Saunders]

. The wife insists on using Asda cos she says it's easier, but I find most of their food bland and tasteless.

 

Own brand goods and false flag own brand (this splits the market three ways) are a matter for your own taste, it just takes time to find the ones you like.

 

or you could follow my Dad who knows the price of everything and value of nothing. It was a lost cause trying to tell him that ice cream is sold by volume not weight and he was not paying twice the price for half the amount! 

 

Mark Saunders

[Horsetan]

Out of interest, is this processed foods, or a plain piece of chicken?....

In order for it to be able to rest on a shelf, all of it is processed in some way.

[great central]

Out of interest, is this processed foods, or a plain piece of chicken?

 

I think many people are under the impression different shops order different things. For some grocery items, yes, but many are given by the supplier.

 

For example Corn Flakes.

 

El-Cheapo, Own Brand, Branded.

You'll find the el-cheapo and own brand are the same whether you buy them from Asda, Sainsburys, Morrisons or Tesco.

No they aren't I hear you cry!

 

So that means Asda, Sainsburys, Tesco, Morrisons all have their own factory pumping out this cereal. But what about Shreddies? Or Weetabix? That's 12 factories just for those cereals alone. What about bread? Certain cakes? Jelly? Milk? Hot chocolate? Milkshake? Orange juice cartons? Choclate sweets? Coffee? Tea? There aren't that many factories in the UK producing foods

 

The supplier will say to Asda et al they have a budget product and a more expensive product. So no matter what supermarket you buy it at, it's the same. Aldi and Lidl are different though as their fake Cadburys (Dairy Fine?) IS different. To be fair on them, the Blackcurrant hi-juice tastes like Ribena.

 

Ergo, if it's tasteless at one supermarket, it should be at another too.

 

 

 

I wonder whether this is also the effect of psychology.

For example I know people who buy Asda own brand butter (proper butter usually near the milk) because "it's better" even though it has EXACTLY the same ingredients as the smart price version.

I don't have a photo right now but will add the one I took in due course.

 

 

 

Although even more interestingly reading from the first few posts is that people assumed Asda and Sainsburys would start closing stores left right and centre, when they've said the supermarkets cater for different people (snobs and not-snobs?) and thus they'd keep both.

AND that Walmart is keeping their stake (40%) in Asda.

 

 

 

I'd suggest it's more the laziness of people.

 

I order most things from Amazon instead of going to a store to find it.

 

For groceries, click and collect. I can order one day, collect the next day free at an off-peak time on my way home from work.

 

I suspect within 10 years there will be slightly less supermarkets but more warehouses that the home delivery people fill up their vans and head out.

The product may be made in the same factory but likely using different recipes and ingredients.

I'm quite happy with Sainsbury's Basics range ham for instance. Morrison's, by comparison, I find weak flavoured and very watery.

To give a good example I have a glass of pomegranate juice drink every morning, it may be beneficial for blood pressure, Sainsbury's has 35% juice, more than all the others I think including the 'branded' version.

My son says that Sainsbury's basic cheesecake is better than Tesco best one. Much of this is a matter of personal taste and preferences though

[runs as required]

Astonished to find all the big name RMweb modellers chewing over the prices in a bag of groceries round the back of this fiddle yard here.

Not wishing to be left behind, while googling about supermarket ownerships on line I came across this item: 

 

I was almost arrested in Tesco this week. My crime? Comparing prices. Evidently, this is such a security issue for Tesco that it wants you booted out of the store. The deputy manager rushed up to me within minutes of my arriving at one of its London supermarkets. The security cameras had spotted me with a pen and paper in hand, noting the prices of goods on the shelves. "Excuse me, what are you doing?" he said. I told him I was, well, writing down prices. "You're not allowed to do that. It's illegal.

 

For what it is worth: in Blaydon Asda has by far the cheapest prices for single malts, Morrisons stock Calvados which pleases wife, and I had to make myself scarce down the bottom of my grandma's small-holding for the afternoon when I was a kid if Sainsbury's 10cwt Morris delivery van was parked on the drive.

dh

[Andy Hayter]

The product may be made in the same factory but likely using different recipes and ingredients.

 

or quality of ingredients. 

 

When I were but a lad, one of my early vacation jobs was in a canning factory.  My first day involved the canning of new potatoes.  There was a line with 12 workers selecting out all of the potatoes with blemishes, eyes, black bits etc.  My high tech job was to shovel the potatoes out of a water filled vat with a bucket with holes drilled through it.  I was amazed at the precision with which the ladies (for the 12 workers were all female) picked out all new potatoes that were not perfect.

 

After lunch the foreman came round and said, "Right that's the Marks and Sparks order finished".  9 of the ladies were re-directed to other work, the potatoes that had been so carefully selected out as not fit, were returned to the vat, and we started all over again.  Not only with a lower level of selection (3 versus 12 extracting the crap) but with a reduced standard of feed stock.

 

So even with something very simple (potatoes, salt and water all in a tin), there can be very big differences in quality.

[rodent279]

I'd rather have a few more European supermarket chains here. Carrefour, Super-U or Intermarche are usually good value in la France.

[Andy Hayter]

I am less than sure about a better value, but I would certainly accept a different value.

[The Bigbee Line]

The larger the supplier the more data they can collect on what we buy.  They can then manipulate the product to increase profit.  They do not care about the shopper other than to ensure that they return on a regular basis to spend their money.

 

Linda and I travel around quite a bit and usually grade locations according the different shops in each town.  I wonder where the country is heading when the top of the charts are Tanning Salons, Nail Bars, Hair Dressers and Tattoo Emporiums. 

 

I'm spoilt, Linda cooks all our meals from scratch and we try our best not to get meat that factory farmed.  Luckily we have two butchers in town.  One butcher had a lady in the shop a couple of weeks ago wanting some proper chicken as she had watched a program on TV about factory farming.  He showed the lady the various chicken cuts available and she made her choice, however when she saw how much they were she remarked "That's much more expensive than Tesc0s" and left the shop empty handed...

[Il Grifone]

omis

 

Linda and I travel around quite a bit and usually grade locations according the different shops in each town.  I wonder where the country is heading when the top of the charts are Tanning Salons, Nail Bars, Hair Dressers and Tattoo Emporiums. 

 

omis

 

They are probably the only small businesses that make any money these days (add chippies/kebabs/fried chicken and bookmakers*). Our last local video library closed recently. We closed our own when DVDs appeared. It was bad enough having to buy a load of dross to get the big title and/or multiple copies.

 

* Are these a franchise or owned by the big name outside? When we lived in Turin there was one on the corner. We noted that the punters all had beat up Fiats, while the boss turned up in a flash Mercedes (even more expensive to run in Italy!).

Edited May 6, 2018 by Il Grifone