Shapeways discontinue several materials

[Quarryscapes]

Just a heads up - less than a week to go till we lose some materials on Shapeways:

 

 

 

 

Hi there,

Shapeways strives to provide our creator community with the right materials to fit their goals. As part of upcoming changes to our materials portfolio, Shapeways will be shifting our offering. We owe you the courtesy of knowing that we will no longer be carrying some of the materials that you have recently purchased or sold in your shop. To help, we are suggesting alternative materials we offer below.

You have until May 14, 2018 to order:

 

• High Definition Acrylate (instead try our Black HP Nylon plastic or Frosted Ultra Detail Plastic)
• 
  
• Acrylic Plastic (instead try our Frosted Ultra Detail plastic)
• 
  
• PLA (instead try our Strong & Flexible plastic)
• 
  
• Metallic Plastic (instead try our Gray HP Nylon plastic)
• 
  
• Elasto Plastic (instead try our Strong & Flexible plastic)
• 
  
• Castable Wax
• 
  
• Matte Gold Steel (instead try our Polished Gold Steel)
• 
  
• Matte Bronze Steel (instead try our Polished Bronze Steel)
• 
  

 

We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience, and we hope that we can continue to support your needs with our new portfolio. As always, we will continue to research and develop new innovative material solutions for your amazing products.

Thank you again for being a part of our community. We will have more updates to share soon. If you have any concerns, reach out to our customer service team for more information.

Thanks,

The Shapeways Team 

 

 

 

[Quarryscapes]

High Definition Acrylate will be the biggest loss, yes it had issues but none of it's competitors can offer a 0.6mm minimum wall. 

[D869]

High Definition Acrylate will be the biggest loss, yes it had issues but none of it's competitors can offer a 0.6mm minimum wall. 

 

I've only recently tried out HDA and found it pretty promising for some things so it's bad news that they are discontinuing it.

 

I think that similar stuff can be had elsewhere - for example by 3d print services with Formlabs Form 2 machines... but at the moment that's just a theory - I have yet to try sending one of my designs elsewhere.

 

A few people have mentioned 'issues' with HDA on the Shapeways forum but whether this has any bearing on their decision is not clear. I don't think anyone has been specific about the issues. My only issue was a missing corner but it wasn't in a critical place on my model.

 

Regards, Andy

[Quarryscapes]

The only real issue was the staff weren't any good at using the machine, it could make stunning detailed and fine prints, far better than any other material from Shapeways or from similar materials elsewhere. The big but being, the supports were often put in stupid locations and items were poorly orientated, so designs suffered from slipped layers, or whole areas that would sag and lose detail or just look like they'd melted. Ordering without supports meant that they were removed before curing, which led to badly warped models. Leaving them on meant lots of uncured resin remaining where it hadn't been got at by the UV light nor the solvent bath. 

 

The next best thing is Standard Resin from i.Materialise which can manage detail and has an excellent finish but has a minimum wall of 1mm which precludes a lot of stuff. For example wagons with T or angle stanchions can be printed in HDA in 4mm scale and look no worse than plastic kits, but you can't get away with a 1mm thick angle! 

 

Formlabs Form2 machines can get better than a bad HDA print, but can't touch a good one, but using someone who puts the extra effort in to deliver a good print will certainly go a long way to reducing post processing.

[D869]

I guess we will just have to try things out and see what works and what doesn't. My stuff is for 2mm scale so 1mm wall thickness will rule out a heck of a lot.

 

My most recent experiment was for a replacement bogie frame. I had it printed in HDA and black nylon but SW complained about the thickness for nylon. The point in question was between the securing clip slot and the edge of the part so not much scope to make it fatter without messing up wheel clearances... although it printed OK with 'print it anyway'. The HDA version printed with no warnings about thickness.

 

I don't know what the answer is just now but SW have ruled their HDA out of the equation. I'll certainly be exploring the Form 2 route to see how it works out. It won't be for a while yet though.

 

Regards, Andy

[rue_d_etropal]

PLA was only in experimental stage. Pity as I would have liked to try it for something. Suspect they were either just testing a small machine or were outsourcing it to other companies.

Would rather they concentrated on what works though, and improved those products.

[The Great Bear]

PLA was only in experimental stage. Pity as I would have liked to try it for something. Suspect they were either just testing a small machine or were outsourcing it to other companies.

Would rather they concentrated on what works though, and improved those products.

I tried PLA twice. First go print was disappointingly ropey even accepting it's going to be much coarser and more noticeable layering. Lots of weird marks. Second time the print was deformed which Shapeways picked up and we agreed to cancel and refund. I was envisaging using it for coach interiors where you won't (easily) notice it's shortcomings, around 1/3 price of WSF.

[Nile]

High Definition Acrylate will be the biggest loss, yes it had issues but none of it's competitors can offer a 0.6mm minimum wall. 

Apart from FUD.

[Quarryscapes]

Apart from FUD.

Which is not a competitor for HDA. 

[AndyID]

Which is not a competitor for HDA.

 

Could you be more specific please?

[simon br blue]

I liked HDA and was happy with most of my prints.  I think often the problem with warping was because the minimum thickness was 0.6mm a lot of parts like coach bodies were drawn on the limits.

 

Personally I don't think that HP nylon is a option for replacing HDA.  HP nylon was originally touted as a cheaper and better WSF (which it was until Shapeways doubled the price of it).  FUD is a useful material but is let down by the problems with support material being left on designs.  Below is a picture of a 2mm coach printed in HDA and HP nylon and the surface detail is totally different.

 

2mm W&U bogie coach by simon br blue, on Flickr

 

A similar material to HDA are some of the resins used in the Formlabs Form 2,  below are a couple of pictures of the same model printed in HDA and on my Form2 in grey resin.

 

Drewry tram 2mm by simon br blue, on Flickr

 

 

2mm Drewry shunter by simon br blue, on Flickr

[D869]

I tried fitting my experimental bogie frames to the intended vehicle this evening.

 

The HDA one seems a bit too flexible and tends to look a bit wonky in relation to the rest of the vehicle. No amount of tweaking seems to get it right all around. The detail resolution and surface finish look good though.

 

The nylon one is noticeably straighter where it is supposed to be straight and seems to 'sit' correctly as intended. The surface looks gritty and the detail is blurred though.

 

So both have promise but neither is perfect. HDA has rather less promise since yesterday's announcement.

 

I'm wary of FUD in the context of clip-on replacement frames - these things are subjected to quite a lot of prising, gripping and other types of persuasion when being disassembled from the vehicle and I'm not sure that FUD would stand up to that kind of abuse. Even the original RTR frame moulding lost part of one of its clip sockets while I was taking it off today.

 

The Form 2 Drewry looks good to me - the footplate in particular seems less wavy than the HDA version. How bendy is the Form 2 grey resin in comaprison to HDA?

 

Regards, Andy

[AndyID]

 

I'm wary of FUD in the context of clip-on replacement frames - these things are subjected to quite a lot of prising, gripping and other types of persuasion when being disassembled from the vehicle and I'm not sure that FUD would stand up to that kind of abuse. Even the original RTR frame moulding lost part of one of its clip sockets while I was taking it off today.

 

 

I was quite surprised by how flexible FUD can be. If it's thin enough it will bend right back on itself and spring back to its former shape, but if you exceed a certain limit it snaps quite suddenly.

[D869]

I was quite surprised by how flexible FUD can be. If it's thin enough it will bend right back on itself and spring back to its former shape, but if you exceed a certain limit it snaps quite suddenly.

 

Yes it can be flexible but in thin sections I've found that it snaps too easily. We're definitely in the easy snap range of sizes here. I also think that it becomes more brittle with age and I've heard of people having done wagon chassis in FUD that are fine on assembly but have not stood the stand the test of time.

 

Finally and indisputably... FUD is not black.

 

Regards, Andy

[rue_d_etropal]

 

more brittle with age

That sounds like a UV problem, one reason I only offer FUD for items which require extra fineness. Protecting from UV in some way is possibly the answer. Keeping models out of direct sunlight also would help.

[D869]

That sounds like a UV problem, one reason I only offer FUD for items which require extra fineness. Protecting from UV in some way is possibly the answer. Keeping models out of direct sunlight also would help.

 

Maybe so. There is a thread on the SW forum about deterioration of FUD over time, UV and oxygen are both put forward as potential factors.

 

I use a lot of FUD/FXD so I hope the issues affect just a few bad batches but definite info about the nature and extent of the problem is hard to come by. All I know is that I've seen it for myself so it definitely does happen, but not to every FUD model.

 

I also know that some sprued FUD things that I bought and never got around to using have gradually parted company from their sprues over time. They have been kept away from the light in their original sealed bag.

 

So I will use plenty of FUD but will remain cautious about it being (or becoming) brittle when used for parts with small cross sections.

 

Just to be not fully off topic - I was hoping that HDA might be an alternative for some situations, both in terms of not being brittle and in terms of being a dark colour in places where the need for handling may cause paint to rub off.

 

Regards, Andy

[Steadfast]

I've had a trial set of bogies printed in HDA by a friend to see if they are more resistant to wear than FUD. They cost about 12 quid, but with a scratchbuilt body, that's only about 13 quid for a wagon! Sadly it seems they'll be the only pair of HDA bogies I have then

 

Jo

[Quarryscapes]

Could you be more specific please?

 

HDA is one of the vat of liquid drawn on with light types of print, (SLA, DLP etc etc) FUD is not. 

[AndyID]

HDA is one of the vat of liquid drawn on with light types of print, (SLA, DLP etc etc) FUD is not.

 

I'm trying to understand why it does not compete with HDA.

[AndyID]

HDA is one of the vat of liquid drawn on with light types of print, (SLA, DLP etc etc) FUD is not. 

 

Then should I take it that FUD does actually compete with HDA?

[Penrhos1920]

Then should I take it that FUD does actually compete with HDA?

FUD doesn't compete with HDA. HDA had a nice smooth finish even on curves, excellent for tank sides roofs and boilers. Print the same thing in FUD and the curves will be stepped and flat surfaces rough.

 

Shapeways never got the hang of putting in sufficient supports or joining them to sensible locations on the model. So they discontinued it.

[Talltim]

Looking today it looks like they've had a complete revamp and renamed everything. I'm now not sure which of the plastics relates to the old names. I was looking to order some stuff in HDA but I guess I'm too late.

Looking at my previous orders it seems I can re-order in HDA, I suspect it would just get cancelled!

Edited May 15, 2018 by Talltim

[rue_d_etropal]

WSF is now White Natural Versatile Plastic and FUD is Smooth Fine Detail Plastic.

Had to look twice, as I was just uploading a couple of items and WSF and FUD were not there. No warning though.

[AndyID]

WSF is now White Natural Versatile Plastic and FUD is Smooth Fine Detail Plastic.

Had to look twice, as I was just uploading a couple of items and WSF and FUD were not there. No warning though.

 

Not a complete surprise. The acronym FUD can also stand for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

[rue_d_etropal]

I actually had a far less appealing term referring to those who want everything perfect but only want to pay pennies for it. Will have to come up with another term now!.

Far too many seem to think 3D printing is the easy way for them to get a perfect model without having to do the work, but also expecting it to cost no more than r2r. As mentioned in current RM, and also how it was described to me when I started 5 years ago(more as an excuse not to have articles about 3D printing) was that it is just another aid to scratchbuilding. That it is, but far more and  it is one far more people can make use of, and actually end up with something they are proud of. 3D printing is not just for the few but for everyone.