Maunsell non-descript coaches

[georgeT]

I bought two lan Kirk coach kits to make a two coach passenger train and in the kits l have found corridor connections ? I was wondering if they had them ?

Edited May 10, 2018 by georgeT

[Oldddudders]

I bought two lan Kirk coach kits to make a two coach passenger train and in the kits l have found corridor connections ? I was wondering if they had them ?

 

Dia 2654 certainly had corridor connectors. They were intended for boat trains which were likely to be vestibuled throughout, I think. 

 

EDIT Dia 2653 had corridor connectors, too. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Oldddudders

[N15class]

I don't think SR ever made any new non corridor connected stock.

[georgeT]

Many thanks lan - Peter l really don't know much about coaching stock, but l think they would look better with the connections on both ends ...Thanks again.

[Oldddudders]

I think the term nondescript makes us think these vehicles were down-market. They certainly were not. The term simply means they were not classified as first, second or third class, but could be configured as any of those classes according to the needs of the day. Their alternative title of general perhaps makes that a little clearer. Race, boat or school train traffic was their intended role.

[phil-b259]

The Bluebell railway has two 'nondescript' coaches (both brakes) awaiting restoration

 

www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/4441.html

 

www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/4444.html

Edited May 11, 2018 by phil-b259

[Dunsignalling]

I recall riding in one, probably on the Kent & East Sussex.

 

Incidentally, I wasn't aware that Ian Kirk had done kits for other than Restriction 4 Maunsell stock.

 

Any details?

 

John

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I can see the need for this flexibility of accomodation, especially in handling boat train traffic. But what references I have found are somewhat coy about how this was arranged physically in the carriage. Were there moveable partitions, interchangeable seating, and the like?

[Kubes]

As far as I know there was no alteration to the internal layout, the carriages were allocated to a class of traffic depending on the service requirements with the same furnishings and seat layout. So very nice for third class travellers, less so when allocated to first class.

Kubes

[Oldddudders]

Mike King's book shows a 1938 interior from what is believed to be 4391-7, Improved Boat Stock, second class, for the Golden Arrow. 2+1 seating, antimacassars, flowery moquette, matching flooring, tables, dinky longitudinal racks.  

[Mallard60022]

Don't want to be an arse but I would think these were Maunsell Low/High window stock R4.

Phil

[Oldddudders]

Don't want to be an arse but I would think these were Maunsell Low/High window stock R4.

Phil

 

Perhaps if George T could provide a snap of the kits we might assist further? 

[Dunsignalling]

Don't want to be an arse but I would think these were Maunsell Low/High window stock R4.

Phil

I take it you mean the kits mentioned in the OP?

 

The "General Saloons", Diagram 2653 and "Nondescript Brakes", Diagram 2654, were 8' 6" wide, so Restriction 1.

 

John

[Oldddudders]

The "General Saloons", Diagram 2653 and "Nondescript Brakes", Diagram 2654, were 8' 6" wide, so Restriction 1.

 

And all the more dreary-looking for that!

[Mallard60022]

I take it you mean the kits mentioned in the OP?

 

The "General Saloons", Diagram 2653 and "Nondescript Brakes", Diagram 2654, were 8' 6" wide, so Restriction 1.

 

John

Do you know if Kirk did these John?

Phil

[N15class]

Kirk 7mm kits are ready cut and shut kits. nothing like the old 4mm versions. I would imagine there are lots taht could be done with them. Unfortunately they are the narrower stock not sure if they are R0 or R1.

[Dunsignalling]

Kirk 7mm kits are ready cut and shut kits. nothing like the old 4mm versions. I would imagine there are lots taht could be done with them. Unfortunately they are the narrower stock not sure if they are R0 or R1.

 

Do you know if Kirk did these John?

Phil

 

Peter: Thanks, the penny has dropped. I wasn't aware of the Kirk 7mm range beyond the LNER stock, hence my confusion.

 

Phil: Not to my knowledge; a pity because D2653 saloons replaced Ironclad Firsts in some cross-country sets and a couple would be very useful.

 

John

[bécasse]

Paper labels in the windows gave the class designation of nondescript stock in service unless they were in, say, a first class only train (typically for race traffic). Antimacassars were provided when in use as first or second (boat train only) class stock and I believe that, in theory at least, floor mats were provided when in use for first class. I suspect that tables could be provided for any class.

 

Electric multiple units also changed class designation when in use for race traffic - first class only 4-COR units between Waterloo and Ascot, for example.

[Mallard60022]

So these are 7mm kits then?

Phil

[Oldddudders]

So these are 7mm kits then?

Phil

 

It's a trap we all fall into. We assume scale is a given. Kirk is obviously 4mm - isn't it? People post about Dapol this and that - Dapol now offers products in at least three scales. I have very little knowledge of the 7 mm market, my nearest point of reference being Bachmann's 1:48 On30 caricature range, of which I have a few bits. 

[georgeT]

Perhaps if George T could provide a snap of the kits we might assist further? 

 

That makes sense, here's some pictures of the state of play so far, the maroon coach was one l made into a driving coach a while back with wayho brass bogies, so l wanted to change it back into a brake end and get another coach to go with it which is the brown one, so with some surgery l hope to make them match and paint them green to form a two coach train for use on my next project...  

[Il Grifone]

The Duette is getting a bit long in the tooth these days. That said I use a Powermaster* myself. Ensure they are earthed correctly. I earth the common return of my layouts for safety and to curb their tendency to act as a transmitting aerial. Double earthed equipment theoretically does not need earthing, but the exposed metal work often feels 'live'.

 

* This has the advantage of being a variable transformer unit rather than variable resistance. A low source impedance driving a high load impedance is the correct procedure (and the reason why fancy (read expensive) speaker cables are a waste of money).

 

I would rather have individual units rather than an all-in-one. In the (unlikely) event of failure it would be easier to repair/replace.

 

Multiple loops should be isolated from each other with insulating rail joiners rather than relying on isolating points. This would prevent the possibilty of one or more controller output being connected together, which is never advisable.

[Oldddudders]

The Duette is getting a bit long in the tooth these days. That said I use a Powermaster* myself. Ensure they are earthed correctly. I earth the common return of my layouts for safety and to curb their tendency to act as a transmitting aerial. Double earthed equipment theoretically does not need earthing, but the exposed metal work often feels 'live'.

 

* This has the advantage of being a variable transformer unit rather than variable resistance. A low source impedance driving a high load impedance is the correct procedure (and the reason why fancy (read expensive) speaker cables are a waste of money).

 

I would rather have individual units rather than an all-in-one. In the (unlikely) event of failure it would be easier to repair/replace.

 

Multiple loops should be isolated from each other with insulating rail joiners rather than relying on isolating points. This would prevent the possibilty of one or more controller output being connected together, which is never advisable.

 

Maybe not this thread?

[Oldddudders]

George - I regret I think your interior for the brake needs to come out. These were not closed compartment vehicles! That fits well with the corridor connectors, of course. Similarly the other coach is most definitely not compartment stock - if you look carefully, only every other "door" is actually a door! 

[georgeT]

Thanks very much Guys for all your input, there seems to be a mine field in every aspect of railways from signals to rolling stock  etc etc Hahahaha  thanks again..