Hornby 2884 Class Models

[ndg910]

I’m looking to expand my fleet of kit built 28xx locos and I fancy a 2884 class in GW Green. As far as I can tell Hornby have only ever produced 3803 (R2918) in GW green with GWR on the tender. I would prefer a shirtbutton version if possible to suit my era. I don’t think the 2884s wore Great Western but if so I’d be interested to know.

 

Three questions

 

1. Am I right in only one model has been produced in GW green since the 28xx was upgraded.

2. Is the cab separate and therefore a straight swap from an early 28xx model?

3. Outside steam pipes and a renumber would be needed if I use a 28xx but are there any other differences I need to adjust to create a 2884 class?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Hilux5972]

Yes you are correct that only 1 has been produced in GWR Green, all others being turned out in BR Black

 

It’s been a while since I owned a 2884, but yes I believe the cab is a seperate part.

 

You would also need to add the fire iron tunnel on the fireman’s side of the running board, from the cab front to the 3rd coupled wheel set. This and the cab would be the most obvious changes that I can think of.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Hilux5972

[toboldlygo]

I’m looking to expand my fleet of kit built 28xx locos and I fancy a 2884 class in GW Green. As far as I can tell Hornby have only ever produced 3803 (R2918) in GW green with GWR on the tender. I would prefer a shirtbutton version if possible to suit my era. I don’t think the 2884s wore Great Western but if so I’d be interested to know.

 

Three questions

 

1. Am I right in only one model has been produced in GW green since the 28xx was upgraded.

2. Is the cab separate and therefore a straight swap from an early 28xx model?

3. Outside steam pipes and a renumber would be needed if I use a 28xx but are there any other differences I need to adjust to create a 2884 class?

 

Thanks in advance.

Cab isn't a separate molding.

 

Curved rather than stepped running plate in front of the cylinders as well

Edited May 13, 2018 by toboldlygo

[County of Yorkshire]

The first 2884's were built from March 1938 and GWR green with Shirtbutton emblem was the livery for all newly built locos during this period. This continued up until mid-1942 when wartime black livery was introduced for all newly built locos and also those going through a heavy general overhaul, the branding was also changed from the Shirtbutton to G-W-R (for tank engines and mixed traffic and goods tender locos) and also G-Crest-W (for express passenger locos) at this time. GWR green only returned toward the end of hostilities in mid-1945, when unlined GWR green was used for all locos aside express passenger, and the branding remained as outlined above. 

 

Hornby's 3803 was built in Jan 1939 and so would almost certainly have been outshopped in GWR green with the Shirtbutton. Being a heavy freight loco it will have been unlikely to have received a heavy general overhaul for at least the next 5-7 years - given wartime traffic needs -  and so I would think it went into the works after the cessation of hostilities, and was thus turned out in unlined GWR green with G-W-R branding sometime during 1945/1946 - just as the Hornby model is. 

 

In terms of your modeling needs, I think your best bet would be to pick up a Hornby 3803, and either re-brand the tender with t-cut & cocktail stick approach with some shirtbutton transfers, or scour bay and swapmeets for a spare Hornby 2800 tender from their 2812 release, which was in Shirtbutton. The 3803 and 2812 models were released around the same time and so the loco to tender 'plug' coupling ought to be identical, thus causing you less hassle. Also note that if you wanted to model the loco during wartime you would need to add the steel cabside window shutters as such: 

 

Hope this proves of use.

 

CoY

 

P.S - I have always found this blog post by Buffalo of this parish, a key resource for the 2800/2884's.

Edited May 13, 2018 by County of Yorkshire

[toboldlygo]

The first 2884's were built from March 1938 and GWR green with Shirtbutton emblem was the livery for all newly built locos during this period. This continued up until mid-1942 when wartime black livery was introduced for all newly built locos and also those going through a heavy general overhaul, the branding was also changed from the Shirtbutton to G-W-R (for tank engines and mixed traffic and goods tender locos) and also G-Crest-W (for express passenger locos) at this time. GWR green only returned toward the end of hostilities in mid-1945, when unlined GWR green was used for all locos aside express passenger, and the branding remained as outlined above. 

 

Hornby's 3803 was built in Jan 1939 and so would almost certainly have been outshopped in GWR green with the Shirtbutton. Being a heavy freight loco it will have been unlikely to have received a heavy general overhaul for at least the next 5-7 years - given wartime traffic needs -  and so I would think it went into the works after the cessation of hostilities, and was thus turned out in unlined GWR green with G-W-R branding sometime during 1945/1946 - just as the Hornby model is. 

 

In terms of your modeling needs, I think your best bet would be to pick up a Hornby 3803, and either re-brand the tender with t-cut & cocktail stick approach with some shirtbutton transfers, or scour bay and swapmeets for a spare Hornby 2800 tender from their 2812 release, which was in Shirtbutton. The 3803 and 2812 models were released around the same time and so the loco to tender 'plug' coupling ought to be identical, thus causing you less hassle. Also note that if you wanted to model the loco during wartime you would need to add the steel cabside window shutters as such: 

 

Hope this proves of use.

 

CoY

 

P.S - I have always found this blog post by Buffalo of this parish, a key resource for the 2800/2884's.

Very useful information.

 

I'd try using Micro-sol to remove the tender lettering first rather than t-cut.

[ndg910]

Thank you all. I’d forgotten about the tender demon plug and rebranding a3803 looks to be the way forward.

[toboldlygo]

Thank you all. I’d forgotten about the tender demon plug and rebranding a3803 looks to be the way forward.

 

Satan's plug

 

And make sure none of the internal wiring in the tender is near the resistor - as it can cause the loco to smoke!

[County of Yorkshire]

I forgot to add that I've a copy of the GWRJ that lists the (tender) locos that were outshopped in GWR black during 1942-1945 inclusive. Let me know if you've a candidate loco you were thinking of and I'll look it up.

 

CoY

[gwrrob]

I forgot to add that I've a copy of the GWRJ that lists the (tender) locos that were outshopped in GWR black during 1942-1945 inclusive. Let me know if you've a candidate loco you were thinking of and I'll look it up.

 

CoY

 

Is that a long list then.

[toboldlygo]

I forgot to add that I've a copy of the GWRJ that lists the (tender) locos that were outshopped in GWR black during 1942-1945 inclusive. Let me know if you've a candidate loco you were thinking of and I'll look it up.

 

CoY

 

I know 3822 has worn Wartime Black in preservation, but did it actually wear it in service?

Edited May 13, 2018 by toboldlygo

[The Great Bear]

I made this list from the GWRJ article some time ago

 

GWR Wartime Repainting 1942-44.xlsx

 

Hopefully no errors in transcribing, no promises though!

 

[County of Yorkshire]

I forgot to add that I've a copy of the GWRJ that lists the (tender) locos that were outshopped in GWR black during 1942-1945 inclusive. Let me know if you've a candidate loco you were thinking of and I'll look it up.

 

CoY

 

 

Is that a long list then.

 

 

I know 3822 has worn Wartime Black in preservation, but did it actually wear it in service?

 

 

Apologies gentlemen, for I have been a little vacant with this. Just dug out GWRJ No.7 and the 2800/2884's aren't listed - it sticks to the named 4-6-0's only i'm afraid. 

 

However, as 3822 entered service in April 1940 in what would have been GWR Green and Shirtbutton, it wouldn't take a huge leap of faith to venture that it was never in works for a heavy general before summer 1945 (a shade over 5 years in service), and as it was reallocated from Llanelli to Pontypool Road in Mach 1947, I would venture that it had a heavy general between these two depot allocations, and likely went straight from (a very workworn) GWR Green Shirtbutton to GWR Green G-W-R at this time, having never carried wartime black. In which case Didcot's livery choice would have been a fiction for this particular loco, but class mates will definitely have received the wartime black. 

 

I could, however, be totally wrong in the assumption above! Someone with access to the engine records (at Kew/NRM?) would hold the definitive answer. I have made an educated guess. 

 

EDIT: See post #21 below. 

 

CoY

Edited May 13, 2018 by County of Yorkshire

[ndg910]

I’m surprised Hornby hasn’t done many GWR models in wartime black. No 28xx/2884 for certain has not been done and as far as am aware only the 2721 pannier has been done in black and they’re extremely rare. Wartime black I guess isn’t popular as evidenced by some of the Southern Schools and S15s that are heavily discounted and the A4 in black doesn’t seem to sell well on EBay.

 

I might pop into Howes tomorrow as am in Oxford and see if they have a2884 which will probably mean I come away with something totally different!!!

[toboldlygo]

I made this list from the GWRJ article some time ago

 

GWR Wartime Repainting 1942-44.xlsx

 

Hopefully no errors in transcribing, no promises though!

 

Only shows Stars, Granges, Castles, Halls and Manors - very useful none the less.

[toboldlygo]

Apologies gentlemen, for I have been a little vacant with this. Just dug out GWRJ No.7 and the 2800/2884's aren't listed - it sticks to the named 4-6-0's only i'm afraid. 

 

However, as 3822 entered service in April 1940 in what would have been GWR Green and Shirtbutton, it wouldn't take a huge leap of faith to venture that it was never in works for a heavy general before summer 1945 (a shade over 5 years in service), and as it was reallocated from Llanelli to Pontypool Road in Mach 1947, I would venture that it had a heavy general between these two depot allocations, and likely went straight from (a very workworn) GWR Green Shirtbutton to GWR Green G-W-R at this time, having never carried wartime black. In which case Didcot's livery choice would have been a fiction for this particular loco, but class mates will definitely have received the wartime black. 

 

I could, however, be totally wrong in the assumption above! Someone with access to the engine records (at Kew/NRM?) would hold the definitive answer. I have made an educated guess. 

 

CoY

 

Thank god I never started painted my donor for 3822 Black, I had a feeling she never carried it.

[County of Yorkshire]

I’m surprised Hornby hasn’t done many GWR models in wartime black. No 28xx/2884 for certain has not been done and as far as am aware only the 2721 pannier has been done in black and they’re extremely rare. Wartime black I guess isn’t popular as evidenced by some of the Southern Schools and S15s that are heavily discounted and the A4 in black doesn’t seem to sell well on EBay.

 

I might pop into Howes tomorrow as am in Oxford and see if they have a2884 which will probably mean I come away with something totally different!!!

 

I agree, so I had to make my own!

 

 

CoY

[toboldlygo]

I agree, so I had to make my own!

 

 

CoY

 

I've done a couple of Wartime Black Hall's myself - the same loco for 2 clients

 

For Ben L of this parish (ANTB chapter)..

 

 

And for gwrrob of this parish (ANTB chapter)

 

[Phil Bullock]

Another difference between 28xx and 2884 classes is shape of the boiler support bracket - compare

 

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/locos/3822/pictures/3822_04.jpg

 

and

 

http://www.2857.org.uk/2857-photos/2857_photos_2011.html

 

Another reason to use a 3803 ...

 

Phil

[gwrrob]

I’m surprised Hornby hasn’t done many GWR models in wartime black. 

 

I'm not as Hornby never seem to think outside the box on details like these. Always the same old ,same old.

[County of Yorkshire]

I'm not as Hornby never seem to think outside the box on details like these. Always the same old ,same old.

 

Two examples: 

 

- The most recent Grange release in GWR livery, which came out early this year, was in Shirtbutton. This takes the total number of Granges released to date by Hornby in Shirtbutton livery to 3. The number of Granges released by Hornby in G-W-R livery? 0.

 

- In 2015 Hornby released two 2800's in GWR livery - 2807 and 2811, both in GREAT WESTERN livery. This takes the total number of 2800's released to date by Hornby in GREAT WESTERN livery to 3. The number of 2800's (NOT 2884's) released by Hornby in G-W-R livery? 0.

 

I'll say no more!

 

CoY

[Nick Gough]

Apologies gentlemen, for I have been a little vacant with this. Just dug out GWRJ No.7 and the 2800/2884's aren't listed - it sticks to the named 4-6-0's only i'm afraid. 

 

However, as 3822 entered service in April 1940 in what would have been GWR Green and Shirtbutton, it wouldn't take a huge leap of faith to venture that it was never in works for a heavy general before summer 1945 (a shade over 5 years in service), and as it was reallocated from Llanelli to Pontypool Road in Mach 1947, I would venture that it had a heavy general between these two depot allocations, and likely went straight from (a very workworn) GWR Green Shirtbutton to GWR Green G-W-R at this time, having never carried wartime black. In which case Didcot's livery choice would have been a fiction for this particular loco, but class mates will definitely have received the wartime black. 

 

I could, however, be totally wrong in the assumption above! Someone with access to the engine records (at Kew/NRM?) would hold the definitive answer. I have made an educated guess. 

 

CoY

3822 WAS painted black - in August 1944. It was painted green again in September 1946, when it was also fitted with cabside windows for the first time.

[County of Yorkshire]

3822 WAS painted black - in August 1944. It was painted green again in September 1946, when it was also fitted with cabside windows for the first time.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. May I ask what your reference is; purely for my own knowledge and purposes?

 

Interesting also that a 1940 built loco did not have its cabside windows fitted, although I suppose all cab windows were plated over pretty sharpish after 01/09/1939!

 

CoY

Edited May 13, 2018 by County of Yorkshire

[toboldlygo]

Thanks for clearing that up. May I ask what your reference is; purely for my own knowledge and purposes?

 

Interesting also that a 1940 built loco did not have its cabside windows fitted, although I suppose all cab windows were plated over pretty sharpish after 01/09/1939!

 

CoY

And for those who keep getting GWR commissions!

[Nick Gough]

Thanks for clearing that up. May I ask what your reference is; purely for my own knowledge and purposes?

 

Interesting also that a 1940 built loco did not have its cabside windows fitted, although I suppose all cab windows were plated over pretty sharpish after 01/09/1939!

 

CoY

"Heavy Freight 28xx and 38xx consolidations of the Great Western"

Colin Veal/Rev. John Goodman, published by Great Western Society 1980

 

One of the appendices has details/dates of allocations, liveries, boilers and tenders for 3822 throughout its service career.

[Nick Gough]

Interesting also that a 1940 built loco did not have its cabside windows fitted, although I suppose all cab windows were plated over pretty sharpish after 01/09/1939!

 

CoY

I believe that GWR locos built during the war didn't even have the hole in the cabside until the windows were fitted post war.

I have seen an ex-works photo of a 2251 with just a blank cabside.