Bilton Junction

[Barber.hgw]

Hi, hope you don't mind me commenting. I have recently got myself back in to UK railway modelling (not that I'm stopping any other kind) and spotted your blog on Bilton Junction. I've always had a soft spot for the Harrogate Gas Works railway that started when I lived in Harrogate (I've moved a few times since then!). I've gradually been building the loco fleet in 009 and I have three completed and I and just starting the last one with the hope of someday having a model of some part of the line - I think, like you, I will be doing Bilton Junction, but in the 1950/1960s to go with my 4mm stock.

With regards to your Spencer model, which looks great, is it running smoothly? I had all sorts of problems with mine as I swapped the middle and front driving wheels round to change to having the drive on the leading driver, but I did get it sorted eventually.

What are you planning to do about the hoppers?

 

[jessy1692]

4 hours ago, Barber.hgw said:

Hi, hope you don't mind me commenting. I have recently got myself back in to UK railway modelling (not that I'm stopping any other kind) and spotted your blog on Bilton Junction. I've always had a soft spot for the Harrogate Gas Works railway that started when I lived in Harrogate (I've moved a few times since then!). I've gradually been building the loco fleet in 009 and I have three completed and I and just starting the last one with the hope of someday having a model of some part of the line - I think, like you, I will be doing Bilton Junction, but in the 1950/1960s to go with my 4mm stock.

With regards to your Spencer model, which looks great, is it running smoothly? I had all sorts of problems with mine as I swapped the middle and front driving wheels round to change to having the drive on the leading driver, but I did get it sorted eventually.

What are you planning to do about the hoppers?

 

Ah, another HGW modeller welcome aboard! I have a sort of model of Bilton Junction with the narrow gauge but my period seems to have slipped into blue diesels so very much a what may have been. I too made a model of Spencer but ended up re motoring it and it only has working valve gear on one side..

 

I'm sure Jon will be along soon to fill you in on the details of his which I think used a slightly different chassis to the one I used and also details on the hoppers. If you go back a few pages here there's pics of his excellent scratch built one and a tar tank.

Between us we have amassed quite a few pictures from various sources, more than happy to share if you'd like some? Also if you would like any pics of the area today I live in Harrogate so can bob down

All the best

James

[Jon4470]

10 hours ago, Barber.hgw said:

Hi, hope you don't mind me commenting. I have recently got myself back in to UK railway modelling (not that I'm stopping any other kind) and spotted your blog on Bilton Junction. I've always had a soft spot for the Harrogate Gas Works railway that started when I lived in Harrogate (I've moved a few times since then!). I've gradually been building the loco fleet in 009 and I have three completed and I and just starting the last one with the hope of someday having a model of some part of the line - I think, like you, I will be doing Bilton Junction, but in the 1950/1960s to go with my 4mm stock.

With regards to your Spencer model, which looks great, is it running smoothly? I had all sorts of problems with mine as I swapped the middle and front driving wheels round to change to having the drive on the leading driver, but I did get it sorted eventually.

What are you planning to do about the hoppers?

 

 

You are very welcome to join in with this thread - the more the merrier!

 

My aim is to Model late 1930s. The mainline will allow me to run a realistic sequence and I’m gradually building the carriages and locos for that. The sidings (standard And Narrow gauge) give me the opportunity for shunting etc ( or playing ...)

 

I have scratch built one hopper from plastikard. I think it starts around late 2018 on this thread. I’ll find a photo and post it here a bit later. I also scratch built two tank wagons ( the earlier cylindrical ones). I do need at least one more hopper wagon...and I may do some of it in brass to give it a bit more weight.

 

As for Spencer.......well it works! However, I would not really describe it as smooth. I will try some more fettling when I get more than a length of track to run it on. If it had been a standard gauge loco I would have replaced the whole chassis....it may still happen.

 

Modelling wise everything is in slow motion at the moment. I am completing the baseboards for the scenic section - so I hope to be able to create the track bed and lay the track. Then it will start to feel like a layout...and I’ll have 12’ to run trains on!

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

 

 

This is the finished hopper wagon.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Jon4470

[Barber.hgw]

That hopper looks really good. I did hear a while back, before I left the UK, that someone was going to do a kit of the hoppers but I haven't seen anything yet. Have you heard anything?

 

Have you got a copy of that book on the railway that was published a quite a few years ago? It has lots of great information in it.

Attached is a picture of my HGW fleet.

[jessy1692]

6 hours ago, Barber.hgw said:

That hopper looks really good. I did hear a while back, before I left the UK, that someone was going to do a kit of the hoppers but I haven't seen anything yet. Have you heard anything?

 

Have you got a copy of that book on the railway that was published a quite a few years ago? It has lots of great information in it.

Attached is a picture of my HGW fleet.

Oh wow is that Barber I see at the back? Guessing it's scratch built? I'm awaiting the arrival of the RT Models kit to complete my quartet.

 

The guys at Narrow Planet looked to have done an initial etch for the hoppers a few years back but so far I havnt seen one available, I did enquire a long time back but I don't think I got anywhere. I have made a few out of some HO American coal hoppers chopped down but will be updating with scratch built ones like Jon's.

 

As for the book, my copy has been read that many times its falling apart! I have scans of articles somewhere from other publications if you'd like me to send on?

Cheers

James

[Barber.hgw]

Yes, it's a scratchbuilt Barber lurking at the back, based on the old Farish inside frame chassis. I added outide frames and flycranks to the chassis and went from there using plasticard. Roof has sagged a bit with age and may need replacing, but will have to wait until I feel brave enough to do it as it is one of my favourite models. I've just started the RT Peckett and have been quite impressed with the quality of the kit. Which chassis did you use for Spencer? I used the Minitrix.

[Jon4470]

10 minutes ago, Barber.hgw said:

Yes, it's a scratchbuilt Barber lurking at the back, based on the old Farish inside frame chassis. I added outide frames and flycranks to the chassis and went from there using plasticard. Roof has sagged a bit with age and may need replacing, but will have to wait until I feel brave enough to do it as it is one of my favourite models. I've just started the RT Peckett and have been quite impressed with the quality of the kit. Which chassis did you use for Spencer? I used the Minitrix.

 

I think that this is the planned hopper kit that you heard about - assuming i’ve Correctly pasted the link....if not then it is further back in this thread and was posted on 16 th April 2020.

 

 

My version of Spencer used the Minitrix 2-6-2 chassis. I think James used a different one.

[jessy1692]

Could you post a couple more pics of your Barber @Barber.hgw? I'd love to see some more.

 

I think my Spencer is on a Minitrix 2-6-0 chassis, I'm sure I have the original tender somewhere. I think there is more cross head detail on the 2-6-2 Jon used, certainly looked different when we compared pics when Jon built his

The Pecket kit is very good I have to say, I built the Drewery years ago and wasn't happy with it so rebuilt and fettled it a couple of years ago now and also made up some transfers for it and the Pecket. Spencer has custom made name and works plates from Narrow Planet. Still need to sort couplings for these..

[Barber.hgw]

As requested. Its started looking the worse for wear. Just noticed that the plasticard has started to split on the tank side on the RHS. I think that it is over 15 years old though, so it's not looking bad for its age! It has been in a box in the garage for the last 5 years in Adelaide, so that probably hasn't helped either.

With Spencer, did you swap the driving wheels round to transfer the drive from the middle to the front? I did this and it ran terribly. On my Minitrix chassis I found that the middle driver was slightly smaller than the outer ones and when you swapped them the chassis rocked. I seem to remember doing something like swapping the pins in the wheels that the valve gear fixes to in order to enable the drive to move to the front wheels while keeping the smaller wheel in the centre.

[Jon4470]

Nice looking Barber!

 

Like James I am eagerly awaiting the forthcoming kit. Hopefully it will provide me with a reliable loco and Spencer can be held in reserve.....a bit like on the real railway!

 

I discovered the smaller centre wheels.......the hard way.

 

I had also broken the pins in the wheels - so I ended up tapping the wheel and screwing in brass 14ba bolts to act as crankpins. I had loads of problems with the valve gear.....it seems to be at full stretch and not really able to cope with the cylinder to wheel distance.

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

Your Barber does look excellent even if it's been in storage, great modelling there. I have been awaiting patiently for RT to get the kit out for a few years now, tantalisingly close.

 

Just had a look back and it was 2014 when I did my Spencer, wow time flies!

heres a link to my build, iv probably rejigged it since. The valve gear is only complete on one side to get it run and I put a new motor in it at some point but I can't remember what sort..

Cheers

James

[Jon4470]

Some more progress to report on the D20. 

 

I made up a new smokebox saddle from brass. The realised that I would also need a new smokebox front- the one in the kit was just wrong. So after a few nights filing and cutting I managed to complete this.

 

I soldered it to the saddle and then tack soldered the boiler/ firebox assembly to it. Taking great care not to bend the footplate I so tack soldered the boiler to the cab. That was the status last night.

 

Today I took a good look, and off came the boiler! Everything was parallel and the foot plate was straight....but the boiler was not quite vertical on it’s axis. What I mean is, that the holes for the handrail knobs were at slightly different heights above the footplate on one side compared to the other...I had, very slightly, twisted the boiler. These holes were only out by 0.5 mm but it bothered me..........(I admit that I did, at first, consider just drilling the holes slightly lower on one side)

 

So I re-soldered the boiler into position and now everything is where it should be. Thankfully I had the sense to put some registration marks on the boiler before removing it ....so I knew where it had to go back.

 

It is now all fully soldered and the smokebox front has been filed back to the correct diameter.

 

 

 

 

There is some filling to be done between the new saddle and the firebox to create a smooth transition.

 

After that the next big/ awkward job is to extend the frames in front of the smokebox by about 4mm.....and the sloping area, and the box....

 

Oh - and I should have taken off the boiler bands........never mind.....

 

Jon

Edited May 7, 2022 by Jon4470

[Chas Levin]

Nice work Jon; fully sympathise about boiler twist / handrail height issue, well done on re-doing it

[Jon4470]

6 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Nice work Jon; fully sympathise about boiler twist / handrail height issue, well done on re-doing it

I will admit that my competitive streak did come out a bit when it came to re-positioning the boiler......”if Chas spends time correcting things that are 0.5mm out - then so can I”

 

Thank you for reminding me that if something is worth doing, then it is worth doing it to the best of ones ability.

[Jon4470]

Over the last couple of evenings I have been filling and filing!

 

The join of the two halves of the boiler has been filed smooth and a start made on the reduction of the boiler bands. I really wish I had remembered to do this before attaching the boiler to the footplate!

 

I then took a look at extending the frames in front of the smokebox. At this point I realised that they were already partially extended......Let me explain. When the locos were first built they had a short smokebox. When superheating was fitted the smokebox was lengthened by 12”. At that time the frames were also extended by 12” ... and the flat horizontal piece in front of the smokebox was approx 12” as well. 

On the kit this flat bit is about 2mm (or 6”) - even after I had extended the smokebox. So I needed to extend the frames by only 2mm.....the chances of me adding this to a solid lump of Whitemetal (without making a mess ) were low. So I’ve decided to leave well alone!

 

I have started on the boiler mountings. The chimney is tack soldered in and the shifting valve is properly fixed. Other items are just placed for now

 

 

Plenty of filing work required on these pieces!

 

I will be checking the chimney for it’s positioning

tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the dead ahead photo the chimney looks like it leans to the right.....but it might be because the smokebox door isn’t horizontal and the dome definitely leans to the left!

Edited May 7, 2022 by Jon4470

[Chas Levin]

On 05/08/2021 at 22:34, Jon4470 said:

I will admit that my competitive streak did come out a bit when it came to re-positioning the boiler......”if Chas spends time correcting things that are 0.5mm out - then so can I”

 

Thank you for reminding me that if something is worth doing, then it is worth doing it to the best of ones ability.

Ha - only just found this post Jon, made me laugh! For some reason it didn't come through on the usual RM Web daily digest email...

I'm very pleased if this makes a dimension or two even more accurate on your work too, but I must acknowledge a debt to Daddyman, who inspired me to try to be more accurate: I guess we all help each other, which is how it should be.

[Chas Levin]

On 05/08/2021 at 22:57, Jon4470 said:

On the dead ahead photo the chimney looks like it leans to the right.....but it might be because the smokebox door isn’t horizontal and the dome definitely leans to the left!

Jon, may I recommend this item (whihc was in turn recommended to me by David) if you haven't come across it already:

 

You can find it to buy here, about half-way down the page: http://www.poppyswoodtech.co.uk/tools.html

 

Usual disclaimer, no connection, but having bought one and used it on my current build, it's very, very useful and at £3.50, worth every penny .

[Jon4470]

I’ve been in the modelling “doldrums” for a while, which is why there have been no posts. Nothing serious....just plenty of other things to attend to. 

Every now and then I have spent a few minutes on the D20 though ....seeming to add pipes, pipes and more pipes.

 

The body is nearly complete now - although the photos do highlight some “clean up” requirements. And I now wish that I’d replaced the Westinghouse pump casting......it is just a bit of a white metal blob! My reasoning/ excuse is that this kit is never going to be the best D20 ..... it is, after all, probably 40 plus years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I need to finish off the chassis next with some more brake rigging etc

 

After that comes the tender......I have a replacement for the DJH tender (which is just not right for a D20)

 

Jon

 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Jon4470

[Chas Levin]

Very nice work Jon, including the Westinghouse pump - I don't think it looks blobby, it looks fine!

 

I sympathise with lack of modelling activity - I've had various things get in the way too lately.

 

There's a silver lining though: time spent away from something often yields better results when you return - things become clearer in your mind, problems work themselves out subconsciously and ideas occur away from the workbench and away from the day-to-day fiddling.

 

Enthusiasm bobs up to a healthier level too - so take heart 

[jrg1]

Impressed with the detailing that you are fitting to the D20-it really does lift the model.

If you are looking for accurate Westinghouse pumps, the Markits range have excellent turned items.

[Jon4470]

On 03/10/2021 at 17:39, Chas Levin said:

Very nice work Jon, including the Westinghouse pump - I don't think it looks blobby, it looks fine!

 

I sympathise with lack of modelling activity - I've had various things get in the way too lately.

 

There's a silver lining though: time spent away from something often yields better results when you return - things become clearer in your mind, problems work themselves out subconsciously and ideas occur away from the workbench and away from the day-to-day fiddling.

 

Enthusiasm bobs up to a healthier level too - so take heart 

 

Hi Chas

Thanks for the words of encouragement! Overall, I’m pleased with the D20.

 

In one respect, though, I am very pleased/ satisfied....after 40 plus years in a box ( and who knows how many owners) it does look like it will, finally, be completed. I seem to have an irrational soft spot for old, neglected, kits

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

14 hours ago, jrg1 said:

Impressed with the detailing that you are fitting to the D20-it really does lift the model.

If you are looking for accurate Westinghouse pumps, the Markits range have excellent turned items.

 

Thank you for the kind words.

 

In my view the extra “bits and pieces” add another aspect to the model. If done correctly, they are hardly noticed...but they are there and add to the overall realism of the model in a very subtle way.

 

As as an aside, it never ceases to amaze me how many different ways the LNER found to fit lubricating oil pipes. On this loco they run from the cab horizontally, then loop up and then down vertically. (Yeadon says this is to prevent air locks - I would have thought that it would create an airlock...unless there is a vent at the top of the loop) Other locos have pipes that run in a neat straight slope from cab to wherever, yet others have, what can only be described as, bent pipes all over the place!

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

4 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

As as an aside, it never ceases to amaze me how many different ways the LNER found to fit lubricating oil pipes. On this loco they run from the cab horizontally, then loop up and then down vertically. (Yeadon says this is to prevent air locks - I would have thought that it would create an airlock...unless there is a vent at the top of the loop) Other locos have pipes that run in a neat straight slope from cab to wherever, yet others have, what can only be described as, bent pipes all over the place!

Variety - it's the spice of life! 

[Jon4470]

I’ve added the brake cylinders between the coupled wheels, the outside brake rods (which only went out side the rear wheels) and some plastikard behind the bogie wheels. The slight gap between the plastic and the brass strip at the bottom of the frames is deliberate...it is meant represent the gap between  the bogies and the frames. Once primed there are some rivets to add to the

plastikard.

 

 

 

 

The cab interior still needs to be fitted. The white metal castings foul the rear wheels so I’ll have fabricate the interior from plastikard to avoid any short circuits.

 

Jon

Edited May 7, 2022 by Jon4470