Bilton Junction

[Jon4470]

Hi Chas

 

Yes, I agree that Headstock’s carriages looked fantastic. I’ll be interested to see how you get on with that teaking method.
Once or twice, I have applied a second, different, oil colour to the carriage and that did reduce the evident graining while still showing subtle variations in colour. That could be something I’ll explore a bit more.

 

As for real wood furniture……..you got me! I went to evening classes to learn how to restore it😀. Learning about white spirit, meths, French polish, linseed oil etc was fascinating.  (Come to think of it that list is just like painting a teak carriage really😀)

At the end of my classes I had a fully restored card table as well!

 

Jon
 

[Chas Levin]

On 08/11/2022 at 20:01, Jon4470 said:

Yes, I agree that Headstock’s carriages looked fantastic. I’ll be interested to see how you get on with that teaking method.
Once or twice, I have applied a second, different, oil colour to the carriage and that did reduce the evident graining while still showing subtle variations in colour. That could be something I’ll explore a bit more.

Hi Jon, it'll be a little while before I get to try Headstock's teak technique as I have a couple of other projects to do first, but I'm looking forward to it: he made it sound - and look - quite simple in some ways, but it also clearly needs practice and confidence.

 

On 08/11/2022 at 20:01, Jon4470 said:

As for real wood furniture……..you got me! I went to evening classes to learn how to restore it😀. Learning about white spirit, meths, French polish, linseed oil etc was fascinating.  (Come to think of it that list is just like painting a teak carriage really😀)

At the end of my classes I had a fully restored card table as well!

 

Jon
 

Aha - very interested to hear you went to those evening classes, just goes to show that the appreciation of beautifully treated wood stays with you, doesn't it? My dad had a friend who ran a furniture shop and he used to re-finish things for us as birthday or Christmas presents - my dad collected things like old radios and gramophones and phonographs and this friend did some amazing jobs on things you'd have thought were past saving...

Have you used the skills you learned at the evening classes on anything else since doing the card table?

[Jon4470]

On 10/11/2022 at 22:32, Chas Levin said:

 

Have you used the skills you learned at the evening classes on anything else since doing the card table?

I did - I restored a piano stool ( the wooden “box” type which stores sheet music under the removable seat). Not that we’ve got a piano though..,,,,

[Jon4470]

I’ve now pretty much finished the Hornby shorties. The two brakes were undercoated in grey …. Mainly because I’d run out of white!

 

One was the teaked  using Van Dyke  brown and the other with burnt umber.

 

 

 

I’m not sure if the photos will show it clearly, but the burnt umber seems much richer and warmer to me. The Van Dyke brown (2nd photo) seems flatter.

I used Van Dyke brown for the previous two carriages (over white undercoat) and they weren’t as flat. Just goes to show how the undercoat can impact other layers I guess.

 

All four carriages together to form an excursion:

 

 

Sorry the photo isn’t brilliant quality - I need to sort out some better lighting rig- but it gives the overall impression.

 

Jon

 

 

 

 

 

[micklner]

Very nice , however not too sure about the underframe colour looks very pale. I use Humbrol Leather on mine.

[Jon4470]

14 hours ago, micklner said:

Very nice , however not too sure about the underframe colour looks very pale. I use Humbrol Leather on mine.

Thanks Mick.
 

They remain what they are ( full of errors) but at least they look the part now.

 

The teak on the solebars does look pale. I normally tone down the Railmatch Teak with a wash of Black and Tan (paint - not stout and beer🙂)  which I haven’t yet done on these brakes. I’ll try using Leather next time - thanks for the tip.

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

22 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

I’m not sure if the photos will show it clearly, but the burnt umber seems much richer and warmer to me. The Van Dyke brown (2nd photo) seems flatter.

Excellent looking pair Jon and yes, I think the difference is very clearly visible in the two photos and as you say, the burnt Umber looks richer a nd warmer, but they both looks superb.

Regarding Mick's thoughts about the underframe colour looking light, I have gone for something darker on the ones I've done (using Phoenix Precision's Carriage Teak P60) but there is so much variation on the prototypes that there's nothing wrong looking with the shade you've used IMHO.

 

There are a number of anecdotes in books like E. F. Carter's railway liveries book and I think Ian Rathbone's book illustrating how variable the shades mixed by hand in those days actually were, a far cry from today's standardised computerised colour-scanned Pantone-matched world!

[Jon4470]

I had another completely different carriage lying around on a shelf that I would make a suitable addition to an excursion train.

 

 

This is an old Mailcoach Tourist Buffet car. I think I must have made this ten or fifteen years ago. To be honest it’s not particularly well built or painted but I thought a small tidy up might make it useful.
 

The BR crimson and cream had to go, obviously, but I also wanted to try and tidy up the silver paint that had strayed onto the windows.

 

A cocktail stick removed most of the silver paint…..but can’t do anything about the scratches and glue marks on the inside🙂.

 

I painted the lower half green and left the original cream on the upper half. it’s still a bit rough and ready but now looks like this

 

 

I need to sort out some roof fittings and try to source some suitable transfers. The LNER used a slightly elongated version of their normal font for these carriages.

 

Jon

 

 

[micklner]

I used the HMRS version on my half set.

[Jon4470]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

I used the HMRS version on my half set.

Thanks Mick….I’ll investigate these.
 

I’ll need a few because Sometime in the future I’d like to build a half set using the kits from RDEB and Bill Bedford. Not sure when I’ll do this though….I’m trying to concentrate on building the kits that I already have🙂
 

 

[Jon4470]

Now, where was I?

 

I’ve been quiet on the modelling front recently. I’ve had a few ideas on the go but nothing really to post about. 
 

However……..

 

I spent some time (off and on) lining the Hornby Flying Scotsman. It will most likely change identity to Neil Gow or Sir Hugo in due course. I also built up the GNR tender from a Dave Alexander kit.

 

 

 

and on the chassis it looks like this

 

 

 

I’ve left the handrails and lamp irons off in order to simplify painting and lining. The “plan” is to paint and line the tender, followed by transfers for the loco number and company letters.
 

I now realise that I don’t have a photo of the locomotive……..never mind, I’ll photograph it tonight.

 

This was meant to be a quick project…ha,ha. The loco will remain tender drive but the lining has improved the look. Just like the carriages there are many errors with the model but…….it’ll do for now. 
 

Jon

 

 

[Jon4470]

And another small project I’ve started is this

 

 

 

This is a Triang brake van. It cost me all of £1 at the York show. I’ve scraped the moulded handrails off. The plan is that this will become a representation of an NER V4 brake van.

 

Jon

 

 

[Jon4470]

These are the photos of the (ex) Flying Scotsman loco.

 

 

 

The boiler bands are transfers and the rest is done using a bow pen. The lining varies from quite good through to not very good🙂…..most is OK ish. However, I take heart from that, because, if I can get even a small part looking good, then the rest is just practice and repetition. 
 

Overall - using the 3foot rule, the loco looks a lot less like a toy than it did. 
 

I’ll carry on with the painting and lining to get the whole ensemble complete.

 

Modelling wise I might do something about the tender to loco gap. And those tension locks will go as well😀

 

This was all meant to be a bit of fun to see what was possible to do with the loco without too much effort. It was (and is) also a practice piece for my painting and lining.

 

[AdeMoore]

looks mighty fine to me Jon.

Interesting to see what the triang BV  turns out like. 

[Jon4470]

22 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

looks mighty fine to me Jon.

Interesting to see what the triang BV  turns out like. 

The Triang brake van will be an approximation to the V4. I think some people have described it as underscale…almost HO instead of OO. When I measured it, it seems to be about the correct height but not long enough for a V4. However, the cabin is about the right length for the diagram U16 prototype. The prototype was roughly 1ft shorter than the production run. 

 

Anyway I’ll see how it turns out in due course.

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

Nice job on the loco Jon; I've not heard the phrase 'the 3 foot rule' before (though I realise what it means). It sounds oddly like the 'one foot rule' in snooker, so I'm now trying to work out how you could keep three feet on the ground while modelling...? 😁

[37Oban]

12 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Nice job on the loco Jon; I've not heard the phrase 'the 3 foot rule' before (though I realise what it means). It sounds oddly like the 'one foot rule' in snooker, so I'm now trying to work out how you could keep three feet on the ground while modelling...? 😁

Hi,

 

when I was in secondary school, many, many years ago, my art teacher always said paint what you see, not what you know to be there!  I apply this to my modelling, especially my rolling stock.  If you can't see it when it's on the track then I don't model it!   Some years back I was at an exhibition at Barrowhill Roundhouse and I was sat in a chair looking at a wagon from approx 4ft away.  It's amazing just how little of the under-details can be seen from so close and such a low height!  I appreciate that a lot of modellers like all the bells and whistles on the underframe, but that's not for me.  Now, if our models ran upside down on their roofs with the chassis upmost I'd probably model everything, although probably not!

 

Roja

[Chas Levin]

I find it varies for me, depending on how complicated the overall project is and most importantly, how long it's actually taking, compared to how long it was supposed to take.

 

If a long and complex project it already taking too much time, I'm inclined to side with you and dial down the detail, but if a quick and simple project is coming in to schedule, I'm tempted to elaborate, even including things that'll never be seen but which I know are there.

 

Flexibility is the father of inconsistency, as someone or other might once have said...

[thetalkinlens]

@Jon4470 I have the Keiser KS whitemetal kit, which I think represents the U16 prototype of the V4. Not started yet, but it would be an interesting one to compare to your Triang van project. I wonder how it compares for dimensions too.

[Jon4470]

10 hours ago, 37Oban said:

Hi,

 

when I was in secondary school, many, many years ago, my art teacher always said paint what you see, not what you know to be there!  I apply this to my modelling, especially my rolling stock.  If you can't see it when it's on the track then I don't model it!   Some years back I was at an exhibition at Barrowhill Roundhouse and I was sat in a chair looking at a wagon from approx 4ft away.  It's amazing just how little of the under-details can be seen from so close and such a low height!  I appreciate that a lot of modellers like all the bells and whistles on the underframe, but that's not for me.  Now, if our models ran upside down on their roofs with the chassis upmost I'd probably model everything, although probably not!

 

Roja

 

Thanks for the comment. I find it interesting how everyone has different perspectives on what is important in a model and (as @Chas Levin says in his post) some of us even modify priorities depending on the model.

 

As for myself, I try to make sure that I research, and understand, the prototype history and details. I can then choose what to include on the model, or not. What I try to avoid though is leaving things off/ making mistakes through lack of awareness.

A couple of examples are:

1, the Hornby and Triang models have shortcomings….I know that, but I’m OK with it because I’m just trying to make them better…not perfect.

2, most of my carriages don’t have interiors. This is partly because they are difficult to see on most carriages and also because I don’t feel I know enough to do them justice. However I will model these interiors …….one day!

At the end of the day, this is a hobby and is supposed to be fun😀 ……I try to remember that 🙂…… especially when I get stuck with research……ultimately, sometimes no one knows the answer, so it’s time to just stuck in and build something!

 

Jon
 

 

[Jon4470]

8 hours ago, thetalkinlens said:

@Jon4470 I have the Keiser KS whitemetal kit, which I think represents the U16 prototype of the V4. Not started yet, but it would be an interesting one to compare to your Triang van project. I wonder how it compares for dimensions too.

That’s interesting Ian….I hadn’t thought about the Ks kit…

 

My guess is that the Triang body design was shortened to fit an available chassis. Any detailed resemblance to the real thing therefore being a bonus!

 

Jon

 

 

[Chas Levin]

16 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

As for myself, I try to make sure that I research, and understand, the prototype history and details. I can then choose what to include on the model, or not. What I try to avoid though is leaving things off/ making mistakes through lack of awareness.

At the end of the day, this is a hobby and is supposed to be fun😀 ……I try to remember that 🙂…… especially when I get stuck with research……ultimately, sometimes no one knows the answer, so it’s time to just stuck in and build something!

Two very good points you make there Jon!

[Jon4470]

I’ve moved the brake van along…….a little bit at least. The fixing holes for the handrails have been drilled and the same has been done for some replacement buffers.

 

While I was doing this, I also took a few key measurements.

 

The model wheelbase comes out at 9’6”, the real thing was 10’

The model length over headstocks was 16’ versus 16’6” on real one

Cabin length of the model was 9’9” external versus 9’3” internal in reality 

 

so, the model is out by a couple of mm in the length compared to the prototype U16 brake van. 
 

[Jon4470]

Another project that has been kicking around for a while is this Sentinel railcar.

 

 

 

This one stalled (pun intended) because the motor bogie was not up to the job…

 

 

 

A puny Ks motor driving one axle.

 

I’ve been pondering this on and off for a while. After reading a couple of builds on here, and seeing various discussions of options, I took the plunge and ordered this…

 

 

Thanks go to @micklner for the link.

 

The kit arrived today complete with motor and wheels. There’s really no excuse for not completing the model now🙂

[micklner]

I look forward to the build. Was this one recomended by Mark Clark, or your choice?.