Horizon Parking

[johnarcher]

Has anyone had any dealings with this company, what are they like to speak to? They don't seem to be in their offices until Monday, so any hints that might help when I ring them then would be welcome.

 

Basically the situation is that about ten days ago I went into Sainsbury's for petrol on my way into Hereford, then into town (shopping and dentist), and into Sainsbury's on the way home for a bit more shopping.

They have the camera view of me arriving for the first visit and leaving from the second over 2 hours later, and are charging for over-staying as though I had been there all the time.

Part of the problem may be that after the first visit I left via the petrol station, which is not covered by the camera that recorded the arrival (if covered at all).

 

They must at least have a view of my second arrival, are they likely to take the trouble to look for it?

[NorthBrit]

 

 

They must at least have a view of my second arrival, are they likely to take the trouble to look for it?

 

You will find that they have you arriving the second time.  Tell them to check.

 

This problem happens quite a lot at the 'major' supermarkets.

[russ p]

I hate these private parking companies, absolute parasites and the owners should be on the dole as companies such as this are not in the 'food chain'

I hope you get it sorted and I would demand compensation for the incident too

[Zero Gravitas]

Has anyone had any dealings with this company, what are they like to speak to? They don't seem to be in their offices until Monday, so any hints that might help when I ring them then would be welcome.

 

Basically the situation is that about ten days ago I went into Sainsbury's for petrol on my way into Hereford, then into town (shopping and dentist), and into Sainsbury's on the way home for a bit more shopping.

They have the camera view of me arriving for the first visit and leaving from the second over 2 hours later, and are charging for over-staying as though I had been there all the time.

Part of the problem may be that after the first visit I left via the petrol station, which is not covered by the camera that recorded the arrival (if covered at all).

 

They must at least have a view of my second arrival, are they likely to take the trouble to look for it?

Firstly, and very, very importantly: Never, ever, ever phone a private parking company. Ever.

 

What has happened to you is, in spite of their claims that their ANPR equipment is infallible, so common that it has its own name - it’s called a “double dip”.

 

The best advice now is go to the parking tickets forum on the moneysavingexpert website:

 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

 

There’s a “newbies” thread that explains what you should do. One of the main reasons for not phoning the parking company is that if you do they will try and get you to admit you were driving, which will remove one of your most important protections in law. This is all explained in the linked forum.

 

It’s important to be aware that you are dealing with an unregulated and unscrupulous industry that cares not a jot for reasonable behaviour and is only interested to parting you from your money using what amounts to a scam.

[chris p bacon]

Has anyone had any dealings with this company, what are they like to speak to? They don't seem to be in their offices until Monday, so any hints that might help when I ring them then would be welcome.

 

Basically the situation is that about ten days ago I went into Sainsbury's for petrol on my way into Hereford, then into town (shopping and dentist), and into Sainsbury's on the way home for a bit more shopping.

They have the camera view of me arriving for the first visit and leaving from the second over 2 hours later, and are charging for over-staying as though I had been there all the time.

Part of the problem may be that after the first visit I left via the petrol station, which is not covered by the camera that recorded the arrival (if covered at all).

 

They must at least have a view of my second arrival, are they likely to take the trouble to look for it?

 

 

If you still have the receipts they will show the transaction times to back up your story. Do not phone, put everything in writing and copy Sainsbury's into any communication.

 

 

Without commenting on the parking company concerned, the supermarkets (and other stores) have had to resort to using them to deter the use of their car parks as long stay commuter parking. As an example In the Luton area their car parks were being used by companies offering cheap holiday parking with car drop off.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I would dump it on the Sainsbury store manager. Here's what I did, here's how the business you employ has behaved, if you want my further custom I expect an immediate reply confirming that no charge is due and there will be no further contact from this business. Let them do the work of sorting it out.

[Steadfast]

My other half had a similar issue with the car park in Yate. Filled in the contact us form on their website, annulled with no further comment. Nearest you'll get to an admission that it's their fault.

 

Jo

[Torper]

I would dump it on the Sainsbury store manager. Here's what I did, here's how the business you employ has behaved, if you want my further custom I expect an immediate reply confirming that no charge is due and there will be no further contact from this business. Let them do the work of sorting it out.

 

If I got an aggressive letter like that it would probably annoy me and I'd bin it.  If I received a reasonable letter on the other hand I might do something about it.

 

DT

Edited June 2, 2018 by Torper

[johnarcher]

Thanks for all support and suggestions.

I shall write to Horizon, and BPA (as they're a member of that), and Sainsbury's.

(I have also found the pay and display slip for a car park in town at the time when they reckon I was in theirs, so they can see that).

Also I'm going into Hereford on Tuesday, so I'll have a word with someone as manager-like as possible in the shop.

[Nick Holliday]

I had a similar problem with Lidl in Morden. Shop manager helpful but not really in a position to assist. Went through the normal on-line procedure with as much info as possible and it was immediately resolved. You've got petrol and other receipts that will bolster your case even more.

[johnarcher]

I had a similar problem with Lidl in Morden. Shop manager helpful but not really in a position to assist. Went through the normal on-line procedure with as much info as possible and it was immediately resolved. You've got petrol and other receipts that will bolster your case even more.

Thanks. Could you explain just a little more what you mean by the normal on-line procedure? With the parking company? Was it Horizon?

I looked at the Money-Saving Expert stuff on this, but it is very complex, and not terribly clear what bits are relevant to this precise situation.

[jjb1970]

These car parking companies can be a nuisance and seem to work on a "ticket now, worry about it later" basis, but as crispy bacon say's it is unfortunately the case that super markets need to do something to prevent their car parks being used as free car parks by people working at near by offices or people visiting other places with the result that there isn't enough space left for customers to park. There is a Sainsbury's in central MK between the station and main shopping centre and at lunch times the car park fills up with people using the various restaurants near to it as it avoids paying for street parking.

[johnarcher]

These car parking companies can be a nuisance and seem to work on a "ticket now, worry about it later" basis, but as crispy bacon say's it is unfortunately the case that super markets need to do something to prevent their car parks being used as free car parks by people working at near by offices or people visiting other places with the result that there isn't enough space left for customers to park. There is a Sainsbury's in central MK between the station and main shopping centre and at lunch times the car park fills up with people using the various restaurants near to it as it avoids paying for street parking.

Yes, that is understandable.

I just think that they should operate their system properly, they seem to monitor arrivals and departures, but have, in this case, missed one of each.

Anyway I've now found their online appeal thing (thanks Nick), so I'll try that first, if that doesn't work on to Sainsbury's, BPA, POPLA etc.

[Jonboy]

They do often have a no return period of 2 to 4 hours listed on their signed t&c’s in addition to the free periods. Does the car park you used have anything similar?

[Enterprisingwestern]

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but I had a similar situation in a Mcdonalds car park, I just ignored them, they go away eventually, presumably they have a cut off point of when it's not financially worth their while to keep expending resources and money on you.

It's a civil litigation so you won't get points on your licence or anything like that.

 

Mike.

[johnarcher]

They do often have a no return period of 2 to 4 hours listed on their signed t&c’s in addition to the free periods. Does the car park you used have anything similar?

Interesting point, especially as the first time I went in I didn't actually park - just into the petrol station and out.

I'll have a look though.

[RFS]

The Sainsbury's near us in Ashbourne uses a pay-and-display car parking method.  You get two tickets from the machine - one to display on your vehicle and the other is a voucher to reclaim the fee in the shop against your purchases.  Seems to work well. 

[chris p bacon]

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but I had a similar situation in a Mcdonalds car park, I just ignored them, they go away eventually, presumably they have a cut off point of when it's not financially worth their while to keep expending resources and money on you.

It's a civil litigation so you won't get points on your licence or anything like that.

 

Mike.

 

Sorry Mike but that's the last thing you should do now. IIRC there was a test case about whether they were an enforceable charge for parking and the precedent was set that they are. The various companies will now pursue you as far as possible inc bailiffs.

 

The drive thru's such as McDonalds are sometimes set up on leased land so they don't actually administer the parking, hence why a parking company is involved.

[Torper]

Sorry Mike but that's the last thing you should do now. IIRC there was a test case about whether they were an enforceable charge for parking and the precedent was set that they are.

 

Quite. ParkingEye -v- Beavis.  As to what can happen if you ignore lots of tickets -  https://www.scotsman.com/news/dundee-parking-fine-woman-declared-bankrupt-with-37-000-debts-1-4585558

 

DT

Edited June 3, 2018 by Torper

[bimble]

Sorry Mike but that's the last thing you should do now. IIRC there was a test case about whether they were an enforceable charge for parking and the precedent was set that they are. The various companies will now pursue you as far as possible inc bailiffs.

 

The drive thru's such as McDonalds are sometimes set up on leased land so they don't actually administer the parking, hence why a parking company is involved.

 

Though if I recall, that was because he did admit to being the driver early on in the proceeding... HOWEVER, I do think the law changed in the last couple of years so just throwing the letters in the bin isn't the best option any more. Certainly five plus years ago there was nothing the parking enforcers could do because their "contract" was with the driver, and not the owner of the car, so unless they could prove who was driving, all they could do was threaten the owner with court/bailiffs (who often had the same address as the parking company) in the hope they'd pay. I think one of the conditions of bringing in regulations is that they can now chase the owner, in the manner that council street parking tickets have to be paid. So if you have the evidence that you shouldn't have been charged, it's best to appeal, but be prepared for it to be denied, because they will push to get money off you as they're vultures.

 

Quite. ParkingEye -v- Beavis.  As to what can happen if you ignore lots of tickets -  https://www.scotsman.com/news/dundee-parking-fine-woman-declared-bankrupt-with-37-000-debts-1-4585558

 

DT

 

Not the same situation as that was a permit holders only parking.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

If I got an aggressive letter like that it would probably annoy me and I'd bin it.  If I received a reasonable letter on the other hand I might do something about it...

 Aggression commences when I register my displeasure by getting some old wreck and setting fire to it in your car park, or use my backhoe to dig a trench one dark night, right across all entries and exits. Extreme and almost certainly unacceptable conduct in the UK, but apparently regarded as fair play in Oklahoma.

[Torper]

Not the same situation as that was a permit holders only parking.

 

I can't see that that matters.  Each case rested and was decided on the law of contract although in the Beavis case the court also abolished the dichotomy between penalty and genuine pre-estimate of loss.

 

DT 

[Torper]

Extreme and almost certainly unacceptable conduct in the UK, but apparently regarded as fair play in Oklahoma.

 

Then I shall be forever thankful that I don't have the misfortune to live in Oklahoma.

 

DT

[rodent279]

My other half had a similar issue with the car park in Yate. Filled in the contact us form on their website, annulled with no further comment. Nearest you'll get to an admission that it's their fault.

 

Jo

Tesco car park? We had exactly the same experience two years ago. Better half and son went to the sandpit during the summer holiday, parked up, spent 5 hrs in said sandpit, did some shopping, went home.

2 weeks later a demand for £75 appears in the post. Fortunately we still had the receipts, so a visit in person to the centre manager resulted in the fine being annulled.

[johnarcher]

An update.

Anyway, (thanks again for Nick's suggestion), as I said I filled in their online appeal thingy, including scans of the petrol receipt from Sainsbury's and the pay and display slip from the other car park. That went off on Sunday.

To my surprise (considering the reputation of these parking companies) I got an email this morning saying the charge is cancelled. They even apologised (briefly).

 

So if anyone else has this happen that does seem the best first step.

 

Thanks again for all the advice, sympathy etc.