Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[MrWolf]

I took it as a 1mm drop every 30mm along the track, which seems to be the maximum gradient that looks right and model locos don't slip their wheels on.

[Martin S-C]

11 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Do you mean that the track descends by 3mm in the length of the red box? That implies that there is a sharp angle at the beginning and end of the gradient. I understand why you want the sidings lower than the main line but I think this will lead to unreliable (or. to be more emphatic, reliably poor) operation.

That piece of track is 90mm long and descends 3mm so a 1 in 30. I've rolled several wagons over it coupled together and they seem happy enough.

[St Enodoc]

39 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I took it as a 1mm drop every 30mm along the track, which seems to be the maximum gradient that looks right and model locos don't slip their wheels on.

 

30 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

That piece of track is 90mm long and descends 3mm so a 1 in 30. I've rolled several wagons over it coupled together and they seem happy enough.

The potential for problems comes from the change from level track to gradient and back again. If the longitudinal profile is in the form of an S-bend, that will be fine. If it's in the form of a zig-zag, though, then sooner or later it won't.

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

That piece of track is 90mm long and descends 3mm so a 1 in 30. I've rolled several wagons over it coupled together and they seem happy enough.

 

Wagons will be perfectly happy. They put up with a lot. Bogie carriages will cope, too, as will 0-4-0Ts, 0-4-4Ts, or 4-4-0s.

 

It's rigid six-wheelers that will give problems, see-sawing over the change of grade at the top. So you'll run into trouble if you try to run a 0-6-0 there.

 

 

[MrWolf]

You beat me to it. 🙂 A six wheeler is also going to lift its centre axle where the grade levels out at the bottom of the incline if the grade is that short.

[Martin S-C]

There's a fair bit of slop on most 0-6-0 chassis. I'll bulldog clip some power to what I've laid so far and test an 0-6-0 along it.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Wagons will be perfectly happy. They put up with a lot. Bogie carriages will cope, too, as will 0-4-0Ts, 0-4-4Ts, or 4-4-0s.

 

It's rigid six-wheelers that will give problems, see-sawing over the change of grade at the top. So you'll run into trouble if you try to run a 0-6-0 there.

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

You beat me to it. 🙂 A six wheeler is also going to lift its centre axle where the grade levels out at the bottom of the incline if the grade is that short.

That will apply to anything with more than two axles and a rigid wheelbase, at any change of gradient regardless of the profile.

[MrWolf]

Which is why when they ran short of old four wheel tenders to use as water carts on the Cromford and High Peak, they simply removed the middle axle I presume?

[Compound2632]

55 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

That will apply to anything with more than two axles and a rigid wheelbase, at any change of gradient regardless of the profile.

 

This is why the old Triang 6-coupled chassis not only had unflanged but in fact un-tyred centre drivers - the middle wheels didn't touch the rails, so they effectively ran as 4-wheeled. Triang made all the bits you needed to make a gradient for all those split-level track plans.

[Compound2632]

25 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Which is why when they ran short of old four wheel tenders to use as water carts on the Cromford and High Peak, they simply removed the middle axle I presume?

 

Lol. Real railway vehicles have springs and real railway changes of grade happen over a long enough distance to include a transition curve in the vertical plane - even on the C&HP. I don't know why the middle axles were removed on those water carts.

[Compound2632]

All that said, I think Martin will get away with his short ramp, so long as it's on the straight in the horizontal plane, and straight for a 0-6-0T's length either side.

[Talltim]

On 20/05/2022 at 11:33, Martin S-C said:

Its an Iain Rice model I was lucky enough to get on e-Bay about 3 years ago. Its from his East Suffolk Light Railway. I managed to get all the locos and stock from that layout and I have converted the stock from P4 to 00. For the 4 locos my plan is to have new chassis/gears/motor units built to 00 gauge that will slot under the bodies and to store the P4 mechanisms so that the original Rice models can be reassembled if the owner after me wishes to.

It's not often I have model railway jealousy, but I do now.

[Martin S-C]

This reminds me I promised Annie some square on photos of that open-converted-to-a-van. Are these of any use?

[MrWolf]

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Lol. Real railway vehicles have springs and real railway changes of grade happen over a long enough distance to include a transition curve in the vertical plane - even on the C&HP. I don't know why the middle axles were removed on those water carts.

 

The C&HP got rid of the centre axle on the old tenders because when hauled to the top of the incline, all the weight was at the rear and despite the centre springs being on full deflection, the front wheels could still leave or almost leave the track until more than half of the weight was over the hump, at which the rear wheels could lift.

[MrWolf]

3 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

This reminds me I promised Annie some square on photos of that open-converted-to-a-van. Are these of any use?

 

That's a really interesting model and those pictures show very well how the model was built.

I too am having a twinge of model railway jealousy! 

[Martin S-C]

Yes you can now see all the little quirks of the scratch build. I think the open wagon is a kit as the planking is perfect but the skrawker lines of the van body planking are less perfect. The signwriting is exquisite but the grey base paint is a bit rushed I fear! I just noticed a brake shoe is missing as well.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Martin S-C

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

Yes you can now see all the little quirks of the scratch build. I think the open wagon is a kit 

 

Yes, it's clearly the Slater's kit for the Midland 8-ton high sided open, D299.

[MrWolf]

11 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes, it's clearly the Slater's kit for the Midland 8-ton high sided open, D299.

 

Well spotted, I was trying to figure out what it's origins were.

As you know many things Midland, do you know if anyone does a kit for the Midland Railway cattle van?

[Compound2632]

28 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

Well spotted, I was trying to figure out what it's origins were.

As you know many things Midland, do you know if anyone does a kit for the Midland Railway cattle van?

 

Yes, Slater's, naturally. It's for the large cattle wagon, D296, as built from 1905 onwards - in 4 mm scale, kit 4031: https://slatersplastikard.com/linePage.php?suffix=JPG&code=4031 (the photo is a bit naughtily of the 7 mm version). Available from all good model shops.

 

I'm not aware of any other.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Compound2632

[Martin S-C]

I have two of those that I purchased already built and painted on e-Bay. One has been liveried as the S&DJR's No.9.

[Annie]

14 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

This reminds me I promised Annie some square on photos of that open-converted-to-a-van. Are these of any use?

Just the job thanks Martin.  👍

[Martin S-C]

Due to other calls on my time I'm not a quick worker but here's the progress after a couple of days. All the main station throat pointwork is laid as is the fan of points to the goods yard. Platforms 1 & 2 track and their loco release loops laid as well and now working on platforms 3 & 4.

 

On the downside although I've found some crocodile clips and wired them up to my basic Bachmann controller I have not yet found among the mountain of boxes any six-coupled engines that are yet to be DCC fitted, so it looks like until I can get my DCC power unit out of wherever it is stored and wired up I can't test the goods yard mini-incline. However I'm not worried since the point at the lower end is "floating" and not glued down so I can ease the transition with a sliver of plastic card if I need to.

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Martin S-C

[Martin S-C]

Today I completed the laying of the platform tracks. Nos. 3 & 4 and the central (branch train set) siding are not fixed down yet. I'm going to leave them loose a day or so and have a think about them. Next job is to get the turntable well cut and the mechanism for it mounted. Once I've got all the track work down I can doodle in 1:1 scale on the plan to arrange the signals and point levers and their numbers within the frame. In the past I've been fortunate enough to receive some helpful advice on this but having the plan full size will let me more clearly consider the various train moves.

 

 

 

 

[Martin S-C]

All the passenger tracks are now glued down and I've begun work on the loco shed and goods yards. I'm short of a couple of points to complete the station area so I've ordered these and I should be able to resume work in a day or two.







I've moved the coal siding inboard a little so that wagons are at less risk of being "elbowed off" and the plan is to have a 3mm ply fascia to the framework here that will be 1" proud of the surface and then modelled to appear as a brick wall.

[16Brunel]

18 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

 

Just wondering if the end-loading road is quite long enough to ensure any longer wagons are square to the platform?