Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[Joseph_Pestell]

Any layout with a brewery is good with me.

[Northroader]

Looking at your map and thinking of the area, it does look quite convincing.

[Nearholmer]

Works for me.

 

As I've said before, I find the railway history of The FoD deeply confusing, so the realisation that there were a couple of railways in that general area that I'd overlooked altogether comes as no great surprise.

 

[Martin S-C]

I think some of those lines are tramways and others are longish linking lines from one of the "main" routes up to collieries. Fairly sure not all of them co-existed.

[BWsTrains]

Martin.

 

 

Re the Map and setting; very clever and fine work, executed in the style of John Flann for his Hintock. Why let mere details like the odd hill get in the way of a good back story. I grant you Parliamentary dispensation, funds to be transferred to the usual acct etc.

 

Colin

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by BWsTrains
missed the reference post

[Martin S-C]

I tried to build lines into "empty" areas and not follow others too closely. Of course one can argue that because no railways were built there, those areas didn't need them - there was no traffic, industry, no well-to-do folk agitating for 1st class conveyance to Cheltenham and Henley, etc. But then I can create communities in the empty spaces and voila, potential railway traffic.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Northroader]

Mind you, some of the empty areas contain b——- big hills.

[south_tyne]

Love the map Martin. It starts to bring everything to life and put the layout into a real life context. I love a model railway that has been well thought through like this, particualrly where there is a history, back-story and, just as importantly (with my professional had on), maps and plans! It is wonderfully creative and definitely a worthwhile process and something worth getting right to help paint the overall picture of the layout. 

 

Keep up the good work!

David 

 

[Martin S-C]

On 27/04/2019 at 22:29, Nearholmer said:

Works for me.

 

As I've said before, I find the railway history of The FoD deeply confusing, so the realisation that there were a couple of railways in that general area that I'd overlooked altogether comes as no great surprise.

 

White Swan published a superb series of books on the region, a pair covering the GWR Forest of Dean Branch and four covering the Severn & Wye Railway. These have more photographs than one could possibly want. Most are taken, as you'd expect, in the '50s and '60s but there are numerous maps and plans of the network from the 1880s as well as chapters describing the horse tramways, some of which co-existed, at least in part, with the steam hauled lines until the 1940s.

 

It is a fairly fragmented system and I agree, is confusing at first encounter.

 

 

There was the GWR main line from Gloucester to S Wales, via Newnham and Chepstow, running along the east side of the Forest along the river Severn's west bank, which was originally the broad gauge South Wales Railway. It was narrowed in 1872. The Forest of Dean line from Bullo to Drybrook via Ruspidge was formed in 1826 from former bankrupt companies and was horse drawn until the South wales Railway purchased the line in 1847, when it was converted to broad gauge. It was narrowed in 1872 by the GWR at the same time as the South Wales main line. The Forest of Dean line was always intended to convey minerals and remained freight only until a railmotor service was introduced in 1907. Passenger services ceased in 1958 and all traffic in 1967.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_of_Dean_Railway.

 

To the west the GWR operated the Ross to Monmouth and the Monmouth to Chepstow lines which broadly followed the valley of the River Wye.

 

The Forest of Dean Central Railway was opened by the GWR in 1868, running from Awre to New Fancy Colliery. This was always only a mineral line.

 

The independent Severn & Wye Railway was formed and operated from Lydney Docks in 1810 being a 3 1/2 ft gauge horse drawn plateway but it struggled financially. Steam traction was introduced on the plateway (!) in the 1860s with small improvements in dribs and drabs until the late 1860s when it was laid with broad gauge edge rails due to the inconvenience of transshipment to the South Wales Railway at Lydney.

 

In 1870 the S&W built the Mineral Loop to access further collieries. This line involved a 500 yard tunnel at Moseley Green and gradients as severe as 1 in 40. Originally planned as broad gauge it was converted to standard gauge along with the Lydney-Drybrook Road main line when the GW converted their gauge in 1872.

 

In the mid 1870s the S&W built the Coleford Branch which left their main line by a trailing junction north of Parkend at the same time that the GWR built a branch from Monmouth to Coleford, from their Monmouth to Ross line in the valley of the Wye. The two branches were authorised by Act of Parliament to build an end-on connection and a joint station but this never happened. There was a transfer siding between the two Coleford termini which required a double reversal. The S&W's Coleford branch was steeply graded with parts as severe as 1 in 31.

 

The GW Coleford branch closed at the end of 1916 but track was kept from Coleford to Whitecliff quarry and the only rail access was via the S&W Coleford station and the transfer siding requiring four reversals until 1951 when the track was realigned.

 

The S&W introduced passenger services from Lydney to Lydbrook in 1875. A line to Cinderford opened in 1878. There was considerable erratic running with reversals and trains being split and combined at the Coleford Junction. Operations on the S&W were always unusual and make excellent subjects for modelling.

 

Following the opening of the GW Severn Tunnel in 1886 and the depressed value of minerals the S&W was sold jointly to the GWR and MR who set up a joint committee to manage and run the line. The MR had already gained running powers over the S&W system following the formation of the jointly owned Severn Bridge Company in 1879.

 

From 1904 changed regulation of mining in the Forest led to larger concerns operating the collieries and digging to the deeper seams which led to a considerable increase in traffic over the southern lines in the Forest.

 

All this plus numerous horse tramways (and some NG steam tramways as well) plus private lines to collieries, some of which were quite lengthy.

 

So not really confusing at all!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severn_and_Wye_Railway

A good history of industry and transport in the Forest can be found here:

 

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol5/pp326-354

 

Overall its a region ripe for modelling all manner of interesting railway operations.
 

On 28/04/2019 at 12:17, Northroader said:

Mind you, some of the empty areas contain b——- big hills.

True, but then these areas were navigated by existing lines, often steeply graded. 1 in 30 was found on some lines so my own modelling is not fantastical in that respect. Some of the Forest lines were tortuous and reverse-curved back and forth down some pretty steep-sided valleys, often using the track beds of horse tramways. There were several significant cuttings and three tunnels on the Forest of Dean line from Bullo Pill to Ruspidge. My layout has a lot of tunnels so I think it has the right character, even if some of these are modelling contrivances to get lines under other lines due to the restricted

space.

[Compound2632]

Don't overlook the David & Charles Railway History volume on the Severn & Wye - although I read it many years ago, it made a strong impression.

[Annie]

I just have to love a regional railway system that has a station named 'Whimsey'.

 

Excellent information provided there Martin and thank you for doing that.

[Martin S-C]

Major landmark today - carpentry all done. It has taken 12 full working days to get from an empty clean room to all baseboard frames, tops and gradients complete.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Annie]

Wow Martin, that is all so seriously impressive.  At least now you know you've got a good solid base to build your little railway empire on.

[RedGemAlchemist]

7 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

Major landmark today - carpentry all done. It has taken 12 full working days to get from an empty clean room to all baseboard frames, tops and gradients complete.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*sniff* ...it's beautiful... 

Seriously though, you guys have done an incredible job. Very well done!

[Mikkel]

Congratulations, that looks fantastic. Literally the foundations of a whole new world. Will there be celebrations? 

[KNP]

Great job, now for the main work!

Edited May 2, 2019 by KNP

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Wow that is an entirely new world. Good luck with the track laying.

[Martin S-C]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Congratulations, that looks fantastic. Literally the foundations of a whole new world. Will there be celebrations? 

I shook Neil's hand and said thanks. I think that counts. We are both keen to get on with track laying and getting the Celotex out to start shaping the landscape. Neil is back again on the 11th and the 13th so we'll make a start then. In the meantime I am going to have a good clean around the whole room and paint some of the subterranean track areas white to help with visibility.

[chuffinghell]

Looks fantastic

[Corbs]

This os one of the most exciting projects on RMWeb for me. Great work so far.

[Martin S-C]

Curiously enough its one of the most exciting for me as well.

[Martin S-C]

Over the next few days (due to site upload limits) I'll post some pics I took at the Epsom & Ewell model show last weekend, down in deepest darkest Surrey - the stomping ground of my cars, alcohol and girl discovering youth (though not necessarily in that order). Highlight of the show was a few minutes of basic soldering tuition from a very kind gent named Roger Sawyer which did much to dispel the aura of ignorance and even fear I've come to associate with this clever means of gluing things to other things using runny metal. I even came away with a souvenir of two bits of brass soldered together by my own trembling hand. I shall endeavour to have a go at some soldering of my own over the next week or two on scrap bits to begin with then maybe an underframe kit I have laying around.

Anyhow, first off, Maggie & Gordon Gravett's magnificent Arun Quay.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The very small, tidy and understated Garreg Wen, depicting a little snippet of Victorian Welsh narrow gauge-ness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aaaand... this signal. I fell in love with it and took away the maker's details from the two kind gents operating the layout. Ideal for my NM&GSR. Its a Ffestiniog signal and the disc and lamp revolve through 90deg via wire within the column, as per the prototype apparently.

[Annie]

Thanks for posting the pictures from the exhibition Martin.  Arun Quay is an absolute gem, but Garreg Wen has nothing to be ashamed about either.

I use those Ffestiniog disc signals in a few places along the tramways on my digital layout and I really like them.  I think they'll be perfect for your NM&GSR.

[south_tyne]

The baseboards look fantastic! You must be really pleased and inspired to crack on as soon as possible. Looking forward to seeing progress over the coming months. 

 

Pleased you have drawn some inspiration from visiting exhibitions recently. Arun Quay is a cracker - a masterpiece of wonderful modelling in a small space. 

 

[Martin S-C]

Gordon was with the layout. I had a long talk with him at Warley last year when he was doing a grass/vegetation demonstration and he remembered me. Given how many people he must meet that was extraordinary, he's a thoroughly nice bloke and was happy to natter about his layout to all and sundry.

Today we have Fintonagh, Irish narrow gauge in 0-16.5 scale. To me it felt like "Diggle meets the Wantage Tramway." An unusual model with the kind of odds-and-ends rolling stock I really like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wittenden. 0-16.5 again but this time set in Kent. This one was a sort of "Welshpool & Llanfair meets the K&ESR". Once more some very nicely observed cameos. There was 9mm gauge track as well so narrow and narrower gauges.

 

 

I particularly liked the sunflowers and the washing on the line. As the wire fence and grassy bank show, you can really pull out all the stops on the vegetation in this scale.

 

The 'Jenga' water tank appealed. I wouldn't have been brave enough to weather the timbers green but it works well.