Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[Martin S-C]

On 29/08/2019 at 14:33, Edwardian said:

 

Very nice Martin.

 

Can you please tell me the wheel diameter and the wheelbase?

Hello James. I apologise for taking so long to answer your questions but I just collected the model from Lincoln today.

Wheels are 14mm dia and the wheelbase is 20mm + 20mm.

 

EDIT: Running a load test on the new Hornby Peckett B2. The train is 21 wagons with a weight of 590grams. Loco is 180grams. The gradient is 1 in 60. As she reaches the point beside the exposed wiring there is a small shift in the baseboard join and the grade becomes about 1 in 55 which is where she slips to a halt. A small finger-pokey moment and she's off again. The stall at the end was when she ran onto a point that isn't powered yet. There wasn't room for a stay-alive in the model.
 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Martin S-C

[chuffinghell]

On 11/09/2019 at 18:49, Martin S-C said:

A small finger-pokey moment

 

That particular phrase made me laugh, so much so I nearly spat my coffee all over my computer screen 

 

Fantastic to see stock occupying three levels

 

Chris

[Annie]

An impressive load for a small engine.  A fair sort of test for your new Peckett Martin.

[brylonscamel]

I made this to illustrate the scene ...

[Martin S-C]

The hand of God...

Chris, there's in fact 4 levels there. The three tank wagons in the distance are on the other one.

Annie, its very heavy at 180 grams and being a short wheelbase tank loco all the weight is bearing right over where you need it. The mechanism is very smooth as well. Hornby have really got their act together in the last few years and are producing some quality models.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Martin S-C

[chuffinghell]

5 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

The hand of God...

Chris, there's in fact 4 levels there. The three tank wagons in the distance are on the other one.

 

I never spotted that  I should have gone to specsavers (other opticians are available)

 

Impressive nonetheless 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by chuffinghell

[Martin S-C]

Things have been quiet... too quiet. The last modelling I did was back in mid-August. Since then I've been dealing with a mild depression and fairly extreme apathy caused by a number of things. Neil was awaiting parts to be delivered, was busy on other projects and also took a well-earned summer break with his family but he recently returned and has worked here six days so far in October, five of them all last week which block of attention has moved things on smartly. This resumption of effort has rekindled my enthusiasm to a remarkable degree and I'm back in the saddle and raring to go which is a fantastic feeling. I can't believe how fed-up and disinterested in my hobby I became over the last few weeks.

Most of the work Neil's been doing isn't photogenic, it being mostly under the baseboards.

All the sub-surface point motors have been fitted and there's now just under a dozen surface-mounted ones to install. These are necessary due to a lack of planning on my part where points coincided with baseboard framing, etc.

We've bumped into a problem with the DCC Concepts point/signal levers in that they are no longer available due to (according to DCC-C) their Chinese factory going bust. DCC-C are currently seeking a replacement manufacturing partner but this could easily be a long delay - maybe a year or two. For now we have used their alpha switches which are simple push buttons. These have been mounted lever frame style along the lower face of the temporary control panels with a mimic diagram above and numbered according to the corresponding levers (see photos). Not ideal but at least the push-buttons follow the same layout the levers eventually will so I can become familiar with their layout now and when the real deal is fitted in the future I can continue to operate the layout in an established format. For the moment we are not fitting signal control buttons. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.

The last few evenings I've had the pleasure of operating parts of the layout with the new control panels and having powered points is a real joy. My enthusiasm for testing has reached new heights! No more loco stalling on unpowered points.

I have also encountered severe problems with train weights on the steepest gradients. I had hoped this wouldn't be a problem and had considered a banking engine but really I feel the layout isn't suited to one; its just not 'industrial' enough and the trains are not long enough. Two engines working a 10 wagon coal train looks faintly ridiculous. I am therefore going to try out DCC Concepts Power Base system which is basically the old Tri-Ang Hornby 'magnadesion' system of magnets and ferric steel sheet pieces (the old Tri-Ang system used steel rails of course). I have tried to source ferric steel roll or thin sheet by other means but simply cannot obtain it - all the steel roll I have encountered is non-magnetic. Hobbycraft do a 1mm steel sheet but it's too thick. At the Hornby Electric Train Show today I grabbed a pack of the Power Base stuff off the DCC Concepts stand and will lay the steel panels under one of my gradients and run some haulage tests.

Catspaw and MVR Exchange Sidings Mk.II panels on the left. Colliery panel at the far end. The mimic diagrams have yet to be fitted. Please excuse my 1950s stock set.

 

Here is the Mk.1 panel. We originally set the push-buttons into the diagram but after one testing session I decided this wasn't ideal as operators would not become familiar with the lever frame layout, so these first two that were assembled will be converted to the Mk.II pattern. All that's needed is to drill new sets of holes along the bottom, move the buttons and replace the punctured diagram with a new one. I'm going to cover these in clear adhesive plastic and tart up the panel ends with a lick of paint.

 

Close-up of the Witts End Mk.I

 

And now the next signal box diagram; Nether Madder, the big one. Below it I have added a second copy with the different zones colour-highlighted. Red is for loco and engineering areas, blue is freight. Public passenger trains will only travel on the uncoloured lines. I would be grateful if anyone who knows anything about signalling would comment on the most appropriate locations for signal posts and types, though I think it will actually be fairly simple. I am not going to use ground discs. Point lever numbers are also needed, of course. Freight and shunt moves might be useful to have controlled. FPL's are of the economic type as used elsewhere by the NM&GSR.

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by Martin S-C

[lezz01]

Nice Martin. It's good to see some progress. Sorry to hear about your depression mate. As a sufferer I feel you. Although I have the manic variety, now called bipolar disorder, but they all suck so as I say I feel you. Hobbies are a good way of dealing with it so keep it up mate and if you feel the need to unload PM me.

Regards Lez.   

[brylonscamel]

Good to hear you're back on-board! I'm not surprised your enthusiasm takes a dip sometimes. Model railways can be slow to progress and are full of frustrations. 

 

The joy in motoring a train through a beautiful landscape can seem far off!

 

Hope the mojo stays with you, we're keen to see you progress a lovely sounding project.

[Martin S-C]

Thank you for the support gentlemen. I have been in this mood before several years ago but that was following a redundancy. This time I was able to recognize that what I was going through was exactly the same as before so self-diagnosis wasn't hard - breaking out of the destructive cycle, however, was. Neil's arrival and the resumption of the project has been a big help.

 

My problems were brought on partly by some frustration with the project, the accident to the elderly friend I'm the carer for and a couple of other issues I won't bore you with here.

Anyhow, time to look forwards and not back. Here's a tentative first crack at signalling Nether Madder and numbering the levers. I really would appreciate some input that's more expert than mine. And yes, I agree that the numeral graphics need to be smaller. I was trying to use a common set of similar sized graphics across all the panels but NM is just too busy and crowded.

I am wondering if the signal 20/21 should be moved to the down side of point 5 so that the timber siding is protected.

 

The double slip 25/26 is a messy thing. I cannot connect any of its exits to any nearby point to form a crossing because I need train (or loco) movements in every direction however someone may be able to suggest how it could be connected using one lever to one of the other points nearby.

In order to save the bobby's shoe leather I've tried to keep the lever frame usage to distinct areas thus locos and works movements are generally up to lever 12. Freight movements are 13 to 19 while main arrivals and departures and loco moves around these are 20 to 28. I probably should place 5 near to the high 20s or near the freight-related levers. Perhaps it should be 12 with the other loco shed/works levers 6-12 renumbered down a digit accordingly.

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Stubby47]

Would 1,2 & 3 and possibly 13 & 14 be yard levers rather than box ones?

 

Maybe 6,7,8 & 9 as well?

[DonB]

Welcome back ... I for one missed your contributions to keeping us entertained and instructed.

 

From my TOTAL ignorance of DCC-C systems, my immediate reaction to your NM diagram was to question whether there would be a  polarity clash at the line between points listed as 7.  requiring some sort of electrical switching ? Or is the switching catered for automatically by the DCC-C  gismo / micro-circuit in the loco ??

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by DonB

[lezz01]

There are indeed gizmos Don, either frog juicers or reverse modules sort out that sort of thing. No doubt Martin has used whichever was most appropriate. 

Regards Lez.   

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

I have tried to source ferric steel roll or thin sheet by other means but simply cannot obtain it

Old tin cans?

[Dave John]

Well, keep all your all failed electronic junk . Rip out the transformers. Dismantle them with a whacking great hammer and a chisel.

 

The E laminations in the transformers are soft iron, very good magnetic material. Some are down to 10 thou thick and can be cut easily with tin snips. 

 

Its a cheap source of thin flat iron, and bashing up the stuff can be fun. 

 

Long ago when modelling in N I tried a sort of magnahesion system with transformer bits and magnets on locos. It worked a bit , but magnets are available now which far exceed the performance of those I played with. Worth a try . 

[Nearholmer]

Three thoughts:

 

1) welcome back!

 

2) all magnets sucking at steel sheet do is increase the effective mass of the loco, so have you tried shlepping your trains with a loco built from a white metal ki?

 

3) I really wonder about a great many of those points being controlled from the SB. My gut feel is that only the ones forming part of the passenger railway, or protecting the same as traps, would be.

 

Kevin

 

PS: traction tyres ...... dirty words, which I never thought I'd use, but they would help.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Nearholmer

[chuffinghell]

Glad you’re back Martin, you’ve been missed mate

 

Being a sufferer of the black dog myself I know exactly where you’re coming from

 

If ever you need to chat my inbox is always open

 

Chris

[Martin S-C]

12 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Would 1,2 & 3 and possibly 13 & 14 be yard levers rather than box ones?

 

Maybe 6,7,8 & 9 as well?

You are almost certainly correct, but I prefer to control them the same way. Hence they are (non-prototypically) a part of the signal box lever frame. I'm aware its wrong but I think its simpler and easier that all the switching be done from one location.

 

12 hours ago, DonB said:

From my TOTAL ignorance of DCC-C systems, my immediate reaction to your NM diagram was to question whether there would be a  polarity clash at the line between points listed as 7.  requiring some sort of electrical switching ? Or is the switching catered for automatically by the DCC-C  gismo / micro-circuit in the loco ??

 

 

12 hours ago, lezz01 said:

There are indeed gizmos Don, either frog juicers or reverse modules sort out that sort of thing. No doubt Martin has used whichever was most appropriate. 

Regards Lez.   

Lez is correct Don, I have a reversing module on the section of track between the upper point 7 and 10. It reverses the loco polarity seamlessly. A really nice bit of kit. I did take some pics and post an explanation here a few pages back. St Enodoc I think intends to use something similar when he reaches the build of that area of his 1950s Cornish layout.

 

12 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Old tin cans?

I thought of that. Much too thick unfortunately. We also just don't use many steel cans any more. The usefully thinner cans are all aluminium.
 

11 hours ago, Dave John said:

Well, keep all your all failed electronic junk . Rip out the transformers. Dismantle them with a whacking great hammer and a chisel.

 

The E laminations in the transformers are soft iron, very good magnetic material. Some are down to 10 thou thick and can be cut easily with tin snips. 

 

Its a cheap source of thin flat iron, and bashing up the stuff can be fun.

Thanks for the tip. I honestly don't have any redundant electronic junk! As I have been away from the hobby for a couple of decades all my train-related kit is brand new. I disposed of a knackered laptop recently but there was precious little in there beyond the hard drive I salvaged. Its transformer pack is still in use. I have a failed microwave in the shed. I could have a look see in there It weighs a ton!). My old PC is now in the railway room and may run as a server for any cameras/rasberry pi's I might use. Haven't pursued that line of thought for a while yet. Still chewing things over. I think that's one of my weaknesses, I tend to put off planning for some things until I actually have to have them and then have to shoehorn those features into an existing design.

 

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

2) all magnets sucking at steel sheet do is increase the effective mass of the loco, so have you tried shlepping your trains with a loco built from a white metal ki?

 

3) I really wonder about a great many of those points being controlled from the SB. My gut feel is that only the ones forming part of the passenger railway, or protecting the same as traps, would be.

 

PS: traction tyres ...... dirty words, which I never thought I'd use, but they would help.

I have a couple of kit built locos and the ex-Cambrian 2-4-0T which I think is the old GEM kit is a monster puller! My GW Metro tank and ex-Highland Yankee 4-4-0 are however brass so not super heavy. I do have a lot of white metal kits still to be built though that's a slow process of course. I have a lot of plastic RTR locos however some of which I really like so there's not a lot I can do with them. Their boilers are already stuffed full of digital wizardry and I have opened the lightest few culprits up and squeezed in a bit more liquid lead but there just isn't the space for physical mass to be added.  I could restrict locos to certain duties but visiting operators won't be so aware of such things so I think its safer to make every engine capable of every duty with freight/passenger/shunting being the only delineating factor.

See above for my thinking on the yard points being controlled from the box. While flipping over almost scale hand levers at the trackside in the yards can be fun, it could lead to scenery damage and some of them are not comfortably in reach.

Here's v2 of the lever frame diagram. I've reduced the size of the numerals and shifted the timber siding lever over to be with the freight movements. I also moved the home signals to beyond the timber siding so its protected.

 

Thoughts welcomed.
 

[Caley Jim]

Could you not have the ' signal box ' pervert frame in the centre with the ' ground frames ' controlling the yard points as depart units to either side?  That way they would all still be in the one location. 

 

Jim 

[Northroader]

Your auto spell checkers letting you down, Jim.

[Caley Jim]

42 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Your auto spell checkers letting you down, Jim.

It's the predictive text on my phone letting me down again. I missed that one! 

 

Jim 

[Martin S-C]

Now I need to know what a pervert frame is. I think I need to install one!

Edited October 13, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Northroader]

Best stay away, or we’ll all be in trouble!

[brylonscamel]

Oh dear .. leave a few blokes alone in conversation  and watch how quickly the tone slides downhill!

[chuffinghell]

30 minutes ago, brylonscamel said:

Oh dear .. leave a few blokes alone in conversation  and watch how quickly the tone slides downhill!

Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to this evenings innuendo bingo