Double heading and Banking

[DCB]

After much fun trying to get 50 wagons up a 1 in 30 with first double heading and then banking the train on DC we ended up with the train loco on one controller and the banker on another. Compared to both locos on one controller the difference was amazing, we just couldn't synchronise the power and had massive problems getting the train under way whereas before we just kept lifting the lighter wagons off the track.

 

The question is how many DCC users actually operate the two locos separately when Banking and double heading?  It was always a challenge in steam days for drivers to co ordinate their efforts.

[Michael Edge]

Never tried it with DCC but plenty of experience with both locos on the same controller. A few years ago I did some experiments for my new layout (Wentworth Junction) with 30 loaded coal wagons and up to 4 locos on a 1 in 40 gradient and with the proposed track layout which included quite a bit of curvature. There were no problems at all, the locos don't need to be matched, the load will even out the power applied, slack couplings show where it's being shared. I do use DG couplings though which have the big advantage of central pull/push with no offset forces. We did this routinely many years ago with Leeds Victoria, in this case the bankers weren't coupled on but gradually dropped off the back as the train accelerated over the top of the gradient. There were specific banking locos for this job though.

[RAF96]

Presumably when you say two controllers, you mean 2 speed knobs in the one controller or the main controller plus walkabout.

....Kind of answering my own supposition as I type.....

Rob

[Ron Ron Ron]

Presumably when you say two controllers, you mean 2 speed knobs in the one controller or the main controller plus walkabout.

....Kind of answering my own supposition as I type.....

 

 He said......

 

.....first double heading and then banking the train on DC we ended up with the train loco on one controller and the banker on another.

 

So I assume having performed this on DC, the OP is asking how people using DCC have done it......

 

 

The question is how many DCC users actually operate the two locos separately when Banking and double heading?  It was always a challenge in steam days for drivers to co ordinate their efforts.

 

 

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

...The question is how many DCC users actually operate the two locos separately when Banking and double heading? .......

 

I've never done Banking, but double heading is performed by consisting the locos together to act as one and be driven using one throttle/cab.

 

With DCC it often requires some speed matching of the decoders, but not always I've found.

 

 

Note: A more advanced system than DCC, Ring Engineering's RailPro, uses automatic speed matching (the decoders speak to each other), without the need for any user intervention, other than putting the locos into a consist.

 

 

.

[davetheroad]

The way I see it the lead loco is set to the speed you need and the banker at the rear of the train is independently controlled to push with the 'driver' visually adjusting the speed. Not a good idea to have the rear loco coupled and it seems a good idea to use tension lock couplers as you have a visual indication of how much work each loco is doing

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I have all my locos set up very carefully in speed matched groups, and that makes it simple. Other than multiple units which run long term in pairs or threesomes, I usually don't employ consisting either. With pretty large values in CV's 3 and 4 (circa 60 is the smallest, and 90+ more usual) the very small offset in starting and stopping isn't readily perceptible.

[WIMorrison]

On the ROCO Z21 you speed profile the locos that you want to join together - consist - and then link them on the app.

 

The ROCO controller then does the speed matching between the two, three or however many locos you have consisted giving each one the correct throttle for the overall speed you choose. All you see is the consist and the Controller does the clever bit

[Alan Kettlewell]

I run some double headers on my HO DCC layout which has quite steep helices to climb.

 

I use Roco Z21 together with Train Controller (Gold version). I can set up a DH or consist using the Z21 but it requires the locos to be speed profiled first, which involves a bit of work. It is much easier using Train controller (TC) - in TC all locos have to be speed profiled anyway, this is a necessary set up process which allows all trains to run at the same (scale) speeds. Therefore, to set up a DH or a consist it's a simple matter of joining the locos into a group which takes seconds. Once joined all the motor characteristics are synchronised and the relevant consisting CVs are set up automatically by TC.

 

If I subsequently use the Z21 to drive a DH or consist, I can drive either loco and both or all will move.

 

I haven't tried banking and reckon it would be too cumbersome to stop the train, drive another loco up to the rear end, then fiddle about in the software to set up a DH, then drive off up the hill, then at the top of the hill, fiddle about again separating the DH so the main train can drive off. Kind of makes it a bit of an unwieldy process methinks. For a banker, I reckon I'd just drive up to the rear and operate the banker manually.

 

Just my twopennerth...

 

Cheers ., Alan

[JST]

I use Railmaster. One loco throttle on the PC and the other on my iPhone.

[10000]

On my H0 I don't have a bank to consider banking But I have run 3 GP38 at the head with 30 cars then a GP35 followed by 10 more cars.

 

More than 30 and they pull themselves off on the curves.  

 

It does require careful speed matching and then you just create a consist. In mine the GP35 was added just as a loco not as the rear loco.

 

 

Edit

All were Tsunami decoders. Never tried it yet with different brands in the locos

Edited August 4, 2018 by 10000

[Shropshire Lad]

I double head locos and bank trains on my garden railway using DCC. One of the reasons that I went for the ZIMO system is that it's easy to adjust individual loco speeds which means I don't get any 'pushing and shoving' but more importantly I can drop the banking engine off without stopping the train using one handheld controller. 

[Talltim]

IF I was going to run double (or more) headed or banked I’d do it the same way as the real thing. Doubled headed steam, two controllers , doubled headed diesels I’d consist them in DCC (unless they were types not capable of MUing, not a problem with US modelling.)

Bankers or mid train helpers would be separate controllers, unless they were radio controlled from the lead loco like some US trains

[melmerby]

IF I was going to run double (or more) headed or banked I’d do it the same way as the real thing. Doubled headed steam, two controllers , doubled headed diesels I’d consist them in DCC (unless they were types not capable of MUing, not a problem with US modelling.)

Bankers or mid train helpers would be separate controllers, unless they were radio controlled from the lead loco like some US trains

Do they still have mid train helpers in US trains?

Looking at the Virtual Railfan cameras I have never ever seen it but plenty with tail end charlies.

 

The most was 8 up front and three on the rear although I suspect some were in a positioning move.

4 + 2 seems pretty common with all powered.

Never seen anybody attempt than with a model though!

 

Keith