Just Starting Up

[RedFlag]

Sorry if I have posted in the wrong section.

After enjoying train sets and model making as a child I have recently got back in to modeling and decided that I would like the challenge of a train layout. It has probably been about forty years since I had anything to do with model trains and modelling and a lot has changed in that time especially from a technological perspective. I have decided to clear out the loft, smarten it up and create a model train layout. I have some ideas about what I would like to do such as go with 00 guage and concentrate on the era from 1970 - 1980 which I think alows for plenty of scope. I know I want to base the layout very loosely on the real life examples found in the area between Brighton and Seaford with particular interest in Newhaven.
At the moment I have a loft absolutely full of rubbish and it will take a lot of time to get the space in order and ready to build a layout. However, I am keen to plan ahead and would love to have some pointers in regard to locomotives and rolling stock, I seriously have not touched a train set in forty years so think of me as new to the hobby but willing to learn and also get involved with the community.
Any pointers on what to think about, how to progress, good places to look for stock and modeling materials, good places to go for tips, help, advice would be great.
Thanks in advance.

Edited August 11, 2018 by RedFlag

[crompton 33]

A good place to look up Southern things for info is on here http://www.semgonline.com/home.html   Welcome to the RM web.

[The Train Man]

Hey my friend, welcome i am new to the model train hobby aswell.

If you check out 'everard junction' videos on youtube there is a welath of info on their you can go by, and he has his layout in his loft too!!

[RedFlag]

Hey my friend, welcome i am new to the model train hobby aswell.

If you check out 'everard junction' videos on youtube there is a welath of info on their you can go by, and he has his layout in his loft too!!

Thanks yes I have seen his channel and it is great fun. I am actually just watching the episode where he rips up his layout.

[RexAshton]

Welcome aboard. Visit as many exhibitions as you can and don't be afraid to ask questions. It'll also allow you to look at the trade stands to see what's available. I would always recommend a visit to your local model railway club. Don't let being new to the hobby put you off. You're bound to have many questions and the more experienced members will always have the answers. Don't worry about being new, you'll be one of the experienced modellers answering other people's questions in years to come. Enjoy.

[ianLMS]

Any pointers on what to think about, how to progress, good places to look for stock and modeling materials, good places to go for tips, help, advice would be great.

Thanks in advance.

Welcome back to the hobby and it wasnt too long ago when I was in your shoes. I scoured the internet, you-tube, magazines, books etc for information, hints, tips and found that RMWeb is probably "the" most helpful collection of modellers, novices, experts and professionals all on hand willing to give anwers to specific questions. Scour their threads and you will see so many different ways fo doing things which you can copy of develop.

 

Ebay was my chosen location to purchase cheap, secondhand and new loco's - however, i have been stung once or twice so you may want to stick to new loco's from the local model shop, exhibitions or box shifters such as Hattons/Rails of Sheffield etc. 

 

Probably the biggest advancement over the last 40 years (apart from better detailed loco's) is the choice of operating via analogue (standard control system that you would be familiar with) or DCC (incl sound). I wont go into the merits etc, as you need to work that one out for yourself based on your budget, and what you want to do with your layout/loco's etc. There are many posts, topics, books and DVD's etc available on the subject. 

 

Good luck and enjoy

Ian

[The Johnster]

In a way it is not a bad thing that you still have a lot of work to do in clearing and making alterations to your loft, as this will give plenty of time to think about how you are going to proceed and start to get some stock and buildings together.  You can start the modelling and get back in to the feel of things a bit in the meantime; set up a small workbench somewhere quiet and start buying tools; a minidrill, precision screwdrivers (good ones, not pound shop), Xuron side cutters, small piers short and long nosed and a pair of self closing tweezers to start with, along with some good quality paint brushes.

 

I restarted after a quarter century hiatus 2 years ago, and not regretted it for one second.  But there were one or two shocks that I was not expecting; well, they wouldn't have been shocks if I'd been expecting them I suppose...  I very rapidly discovered that my eyesight and hand/eye co-ordination meant that tasks I used to find easy enough were suddenly impossible, particularly numbering coaches or wagons with HMRS transfers and using scale couplings.  I had originally planned the layout with easy curvature to be able to use my old stock which was all fitted with scale couplings, and had to 'revert' to tension locks despite the appearance.  

 

This had an up side; suddenly I was able to shoehorn in more fiddle yard roads using setrack curves and points, but let to a lot of problems attempting to retrofit t/ls to stock that had had them removed years ago.  This leads to the next point; do you have stock from the old days that you wish to continue to use?  Come to think of it probably not, the trade did not support the Southern much 40 years ago; the current popularity of the genre shows they were seriously missing a trick!  If I were starting again I would replace all my stock with new to avoid this faff; I have replaced all my freight stock with modern versions that do not have moulded handbrakes and am working on passenger stock with brake blocks that do not align with the wheels.  None of the old locos I had 2 years ago are still in service with their original mechanisms, all have died on me and I might as well have bought new from the start.

 

My personal recommendation is, for the time being at least, to invest in new stock rather than eBay; you may have limited resources but anything any good on 'bay tends to cost almost as much as it does new and there are many pitfalls, older production stock that does not have NEMs or is inferior in performance to the current version's mechanism. You will need to have at least one proven good reliable runner when you come to test your tracklaying and wiring anyway.  When you have built a degree of skill level and experience that enables you to confidently tackle cheap s/h models with running problems, you can buy with some self-confidence.  Plenty of advice on this very forum...

 

Do you have a good model railway shop near where you live?  I am very lucky in that I do, and the support and advice I have had from there has been invaluable, even when I didn't agree with it!  They will often 'round down' the bill for me and other regular customers as well; the online box shifters are not as cheap as they seem in this circumstance, and I hate waiting for delivery.  Of course, some things are only available on line and you have to go down that route, but I am happy to pay a little over the odds if I can get what I want in my local model railway shop because it's not that much over the odds, and I like going there just to hang out.  If you don't have a good shop, then you are unfortunate and missing out but will have to carry on regardless.

 

Do you have a club locally?  Clubs are not for everyone, but they are a great place to learn how to do things; a good one will have specialist tools you can use, and there is always a wide pool of knowledge and experience.  

 

Decide before you start on track standard (Peco code 100 setrack or Streamline will probably be fine for a South Coast layout in the 70/80s) and method of control, DC or DCC.  I cannot advise you on matters DCC as I am a poverty stricken Luddite who does not use it; DC you are already familiar with and it has not changed much in the last 4 decades.  DCC is definitely The Future, though; budget about a £30% increase in initial cost and new/retrofitted locos there on in. 

 

Decide before you start on a standard coupling (NEM tension locks is probably the line of least resistance), and whether you want fixed rakes, or to shunt trains, or a mixture of the two.  For coupling purposes a fixed rake is a single vehicle, but allows you to use scale couplings on the front and rear of the train.

 

Decide before you start on the maximum length of train and minimum radius of curvature; these will affect your planning.  Plan books are useful for ideas and inspiration, and will give you a good overview of what a railway-like plan looks like, but I would suggest going your own way to suit your own space when you start actual planning.  Allow more space than you need so that you can ease curves or lengthen sections if you have to when it comes to laying track.  My current layout was not planned at all beyond a rough sketch, I just laid pieces of track and pointwork about the place until it looked like what I wanted, but I had a fairly good mental image to work to to begin with.  

 

Don't do anything that will structurally damage your attic.  The size of the hatchway will limit the size of baseboard sheets you can get up there, and if you plan to take it down for exhibitions, a good bit of spare space must be allowed.

 

Keep asking questions, go to shows, take magazines, do as much research into the area and railway you are modelling as you can, use google images for stations, and do not rush either the construction or the research; on the other hand aim to build something straightforward that can be got up and running in a time scale that will not sap your enthusiasm; keep it achievable and within your abilities.  It will never be finished, they never are.

 

Seek to improve on RTR purchases as much as you can; passengers and internal details in coaches, weathering, crews on locos, internal details in buildings.  It is fun, satisfying, and will encourage you to take on more complex kits and even scratch building projects when you are ready.  But most of what you need for you South Coast 40 years ago layout is available RTR at good quality and reliability.

 

The most important advice is last; enjoy it and have fun!!!

[RedFlag]

The most important advice is last; enjoy it and have fun!!!

I din't want to quote your whole post but wanted to recognise your reply - WOW! That is fantastic advice and some very useful information. To answer some of your questions.

 

I don't have any of my old stock though it might be in the loft space at my mums house but I never really had that much anyway I spent most of my time using my stock on my cousins layout and helping him to build that.

 

I  think the nearest model shop to me is in Worthing or Lancing but there is a Railway Model Club in walking distance and I hope to pop along to their meeting tomorrow evening.

 

You have given me some good advice and a number of things to ponder. I'm in no rush and am happy to spend a bit of time researching etc. I will also try to get to know what is going on on this forum.

[Nearholmer]

If you ferret about, there is quite a bit on RMWeb about your chosen area/date, and there has been at least one very good layout based on Newhaven c1980.

 

If you pitch early in your timespan, you can have BILs and CORs, as well as the various BR classes. IIRC, the last pre-war stock came out of service from the area c1972 - I certainly recall travelling on it about then.

 

And, the Oxted and Hampshire DEMUs used to go through Lewes on their way for attention at St Leonard’s.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Mike Storey]

Any new Southern Region modeller is always welcome on here!!! So, Welcome!

 

First things, first. What is your main interest? Is it running trains or building the layout? Will it be a through station (Newhaven Town or Harbour for example) so you can have trains running round and round, or a terminus (Newhaven Marine or Seaford for example) for an end to fiddle yard layout?

 

One of those may need a lot of different stock, and one of them far less so. One will take up a lot more room than the other. How much room will you have, when the loft is cleared?

 

I presume you are going to model third rail? I would advocate Peco Code 75 track, if you are going to use Peco Code 60 third rail (as the contrast with Code 100 is too great in my eyes).

 

EMU's : These days, you can buy Ready to Run 4 CEPs (and BILs if you want to start that early), and 2 HAPs from early next year, from Bachmann, and 4 VEPs from Hornby (not as good a model but some mods can make it far better). Or you can buy kits for these and particularly the 4 CIG and many others (or RTR in some cases) from Southern Pride or Britannia Pacific Models (both have good web sites).

 

Locos: You only really need Class 33's (RTR best from Heljan) and Class 73's (RTR from Dapol). But if you want Class 47's, Class 71's, or others, there are plenty of RTR models available these days, from Bachmann, Hornby, DJM Models etc. You can see all these on Hattons, Rails, Kernow or other big retailer web sites.

 

Departmental Wagons: the excellent Cambrian kits should be your first choice for most SR varieties, but several available as RTR. Beware the more modern stock which won't be suitable fro your era.

 

Wagons: take your pick - you need to think through what freight traffic you want to run first. Scrap at Newhaven, coal, oil? Just be careful to ensure the wagons you choose are right for your timescale.

 

Lineside: lots of good SR detailing - concrete fencing, lighting etc from Peco (Ratio) and some others; signals either Eckon/Berko or, for a price, very accurate ones from Absolute Aspects. Others are available, but more generic. Buildings are down to you. You can buy plenty of different card kits or download from such as Scalescenes, but there are few suitable immediately for the Newhaven area. You may have to scratchbuild (using parts from, say, YorkModelRail, or butcher a house kit.of which many are available.

 

When I lived in Brighton, there were three good model shops, all gone now (although one continues as a "collectors'" emporium, down Station Road). But Lancing Models are your best bet for some retailer advice. Gaugemaster, at Ford, are huge, but pricey. There used to be a good model shop at Burgess Hill, but I don't know if it still exists?

 

Look forward to your progress! Pick a year and then add three.......if you are normal. Be warned, some folk on here are not normal and will churn out some spectacular layouts every year. I envy them, as I sit back with my glass of wine, and think about doing something, again.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Mike Storey

[Crewlisle]

Sorry if I have posted in the wrong section.

 

After enjoying train sets and model making as a child I have recently got back in to modeling and decided that I would like the challenge of a train layout. It has probably been about forty years since I had anything to do with model trains and modelling and a lot has changed in that time especially from a technological perspective. I have decided to clear out the loft, smarten it up and create a model train layout. I have some ideas about what I would like to do such as go with 00 guage and concentrate on the era from 1970 - 1980 which I think alows for plenty of scope. I know I want to base the layout very loosely on the real life examples found in the area between Brighton and Seaford with particular interest in Newhaven.

At the moment I have a loft absolutely full of rubbish and it will take a lot of time to get the space in order and ready to build a layout...........

 

I sympathise about your loft;  I have just sorted mine out but am fortunate to have had the use of my spare bedroom for the last 45 years!  One thing I would say is that someone has recommended using Code 75 rail.  Yes it does look more realistic than the popular Code 100 but it is quite fragile.  Code 100 rail & points can be made more realistic if the sides of the rails are painted.

 

Peter

[sub39h]

I think the key to a big project like a loft layout is building one loop first and getting trains running early and then add from there.

[crompton 33]

Mike .The model shop at Burgess Hill went a few back. They are now at Wadhurst he only sale's S/H things now. Link to there new shop   http://www.classicrail.co.uk/PBHomePage.asp?PBMInit=1

Edited August 14, 2018 by crompton 33

[RedFlag]

Any new Southern Region modeller is always welcome on here!!! So, Welcome!

Thanks Mike, some great advice. I want to use Newhaven as an inspiration rather than trying to create a replica. However, the main reason for thinking about Newhaven is some of the layout challenges that this site presents. I will definetly be trying to recreate the swing bridge and some of the harbour features. I am thinking I might create a fictional location and call it Seahaven and get further inspiration from Seaford and Peacehaven. As far a stock is concerned again I am looking more at inspiration rather than recreation and will be thinking long and hard before I start to invest in this. I have started to document my progress on video and probably will upload to youtube at some point.

 

 

I sympathise about your loft;  I have just sorted mine out but am fortunate to have had the use of my spare bedroom for the last 45 years!

 

Peter

Thanks Peter I really have a long way to go with the loft. This week I have disposed of 15 bags of litter and hardly scratched the surface. Plenty of time for planning and research though.

[DCB]

Lofts. Best accessed by rickety wobbly loft ladder so the wife/ partner doesn't decide it would make a good office/ bedroom etc.  Blue era SR, bit niche so I guess you will be building lots of Emus, I mean EMU's.   Lots of modellers prefer steam era, thats pre Autumn 67 on the SR, Pre end of 65 on the GW so they can run steam and diesel and pick up freights etc.

Pre 1939 is more interesting with more shunting as PO wagons had to go to / from specific places and lots of through coaches swapped trains at various places.

 

Peco code 100 has the advantages that t is more robust than code 75 and all sorts of stock from 1950s Triang to current offerings run OK on it.

 

A couple of easily made mistakes, Your trains need somewhere to go to and somewhere to go from.  My uncompleted loft layout has storage tracks arranged so trains can leave them go around the layout clockwise or anticlockwise and return. I have never seen another like it. Too often there is nowhere for a train to go, it starts from a siding or platform and then has nowhere to go except reverse back where t came and you can't reverse very well with tension lock couplings.  Its also easy to design a layout where 80% of the running is on hidden tracks especially where spirals are involved and that gets tedious waiting for trains, especially some modern Hornby.  If your loft is a decent size I suggest getting some US magazines which cater for decent size layouts rather than the inevitable 8X1 BLT.  I guess the roof slopes in?  Hidden sidings are under the roof slope behind detachable backscenes  are a good .ploy. Web cams to keep track of hidden trains are a good move.  

 

I suggest Baseboard frames with wiring ducts as a first step, I use trunking, are a good start, you don;t need a baseboard top where there is no track so scenery can go down below rack level easily.   Test track as you lay it, a controller with crocodile clips is really useful for temporary power, you really don't want to lay more than about three yards of track without testing it as tearing up even 3 metres of track because its not right is a nuisance. 

[Sir TophamHatt]

Also think about realism.

Do you want it super real or not so much?

 

I was like you about a year ago.

 

I didn't think about curve radius, what stock I wanted to run, fixed rakes or anything like that. While planning like that is great, you can usually always adapt. I just slapped some track down and got driving.

 

I started with a 1.40m x 1.20m rectangle and had a basic two track oval. I motorised a few points at the back, but found a lot of my work was getting trains out of dead spots or actually messing about with the trains rather than making them go.

 

I got as far as ballasting before scrapping it.

 

Some say "use code 75 track" or other things. I used what I had, which I guess is code 100. The codes refer to the height of the rail. Standard size is 100, I think.

 

The layout I am currently (re)building isn't meant to be super realistic.

While it would be great to have a super detailed layout, that isn't going to be this one and I know I'm not going to be in this house forever so will have a chance later on in life.

 

Here's some threads I started/was part of that you may find useful:

 

DCC Questions for a Novice | Must Have Tools | How to Get Power to the Track | How to Remodal Track After Modelling | Finished My Baseboard, Now What? | How to Store Locos When Not in Use | How to Add Dropper Wires to Bus Wires?

[Steamport Southport]

Keep an eye on the "box shifters" sales (big model shops such as Hattons, Rails and Kernow). BR Blue EMUs always seem to get reduced rather than the BR Green era.

 

As an example. 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/98088/Hornby_R3341_Class_2_HAL_2_Car_EMU_2677_in_BR_blue/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

It's a fantastic model BTW. I managed to get one of the last green ones but I am considering buying a blue one as well.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

Lofts. Best accessed by rickety wobbly loft ladder so the wife/ partner doesn't decide it would make a good office/ bedroom etc.  Blue era SR, bit niche so I guess you will be building lots of Emus, I mean EMU's.   Lots of modellers prefer steam era, thats pre Autumn 67 on the SR, Pre end of 65 on the GW so they can run steam and diesel and pick up freights etc.

Pre 1939 is more interesting with more shunting as PO wagons had to go to / from specific places and lots of through coaches swapped trains at various places.

 

Peco code 100 has the advantages that t is more robust than code 75 and all sorts of stock from 1950s Triang to current offerings run OK on it.

 

A couple of easily made mistakes, Your trains need somewhere to go to and somewhere to go from.  My uncompleted loft layout has storage tracks arranged so trains can leave them go around the layout clockwise or anticlockwise and return. I have never seen another like it. Too often there is nowhere for a train to go, it starts from a siding or platform and then has nowhere to go except reverse back where t came and you can't reverse very well with tension lock couplings.  Its also easy to design a layout where 80% of the running is on hidden tracks especially where spirals are involved and that gets tedious waiting for trains, especially some modern Hornby.  If your loft is a decent size I suggest getting some US magazines which cater for decent size layouts rather than the inevitable 8X1 BLT.  I guess the roof slopes in?  Hidden sidings are under the roof slope behind detachable backscenes  are a good .ploy. Web cams to keep track of hidden trains are a good move.  

 

I suggest Baseboard frames with wiring ducts as a first step, I use trunking, are a good start, you don;t need a baseboard top where there is no track so scenery can go down below rack level easily.   Test track as you lay it, a controller with crocodile clips is really useful for temporary power, you really don't want to lay more than about three yards of track without testing it as tearing up even 3 metres of track because its not right is a nuisance. 

 

I have no problem propelling with tension lock couplers, on curves down to no.3 radius, but it is important to ensure the track is laid smooth and level and that the coupler bars are all the same height above the rail; I made the mistake of assuming this was the same as depth below the buffer beam and had to do a lot of work to correct matters!

 

I pinned my track in position lightly and tested it very thoroughly before final glueing down, then again afterwards, again when I painted it, and again when I ballasted it, but the initial test is the important one as anything found amiss after this on track already proven to have good electrical contact can be remedied without ripping the track up; I agree crocodiles are just the thing for this stage.  A known good runner loco is vital as well; run the loco, don't just rely on the multimeter, as the loco will show up any running issues you need to attend to before committing the track to the glue.  The pins can be removed when the pva goes off.

Edited August 18, 2018 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Also think about realism.

Do you want it super real or not so much?

 

I was like you about a year ago.

 

I didn't think about curve radius, what stock I wanted to run, fixed rakes or anything like that. While planning like that is great, you can usually always adapt. I just slapped some track down and got driving.

 

I started with a 1.40m x 1.20m rectangle and had a basic two track oval. I motorised a few points at the back, but found a lot of my work was getting trains out of dead spots or actually messing about with the trains rather than making them go.

 

I got as far as ballasting before scrapping it.

 

Some say "use code 75 track" or other things. I used what I had, which I guess is code 100. The codes refer to the height of the rail. Standard size is 100, I think.

 

The layout I am currently (re)building isn't meant to be super realistic.

While it would be great to have a super detailed layout, that isn't going to be this one and I know I'm not going to be in this house forever so will have a chance later on in life.

 

Here's some threads I started/was part of that you may find useful:

 

DCC Questions for a Novice | Must Have Tools | How to Get Power to the Track | How to Remodal Track After Modelling | Finished My Baseboard, Now What? | How to Store Locos When Not in Use | How to Add Dropper Wires to Bus Wires?

Some very useful links for newbies here, Sir Topham.  I would also advise spending some time at the planning stage thinking about what sort of trains you want to run, how tight a curve you are prepared to accept, how long you want your trains to be and so on.  Then draw some plans to fit the space you have available.  Then go up the pub to drown your sorrows when you realise you haven't got even close to enough space, and rethink until you have a compromise (all layouts are compromises) that you can live with.

 

Levels of detail can be increased at a later date if the layout is a good one, with reasonably realistic track plans, to start with.  I have a station building cobbled up out of two Hornby NER waiting rooms, resin RTP cut and shut, to which I have added a sloping roof that extends to a canopy and fitted barge boards around it.  One day I will build a proper station building, but this'll do fine for now so long as I avoid looking at how unscale thick the walls are; they'd do justice to a nuclear bunker, a real one not a model one!

[Dungrange]

Some say "use code 75 track" or other things. I used what I had, which I guess is code 100. The codes refer to the height of the rail. Standard size is 100, I think.

 

The 'code' refers to the height of the rail in thousands of an inch - ie code 100 is 100/1000^th or 1/10^th of an inch.  In 00 a scale rail height for traditional bullhead track is code 75.  For modern flat bottom rail, the scale height in 00 would be code 82.  Code 100 is what is found in most train sets and whilst slightly overscale, does accommodate a greater variety of wheel standards, albeit that shouldn't be an issue if you tend to buy newish models.

[RedFlag]

I really appreciate all the comments, help, and suggestions. I never expected such a response. What a great community.

[Geep7]

As Nearholmer has mentioned, there is Colin Park's former layout Newhaven Harbour (now owned by Wigan Finescale group) - (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6570-newhaven-harbour/?fromsearch=1).

It even inspired my own layout.

If you are going to model the Newhaven branch, 2-Bil's and 2 Hal's we're seen all the time until the early 70's. In fact, there is a photo in one of the SR EMU books (one of the Martin Welch titles) showing Bil/Hal/Cor units being stabled at Seaford.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Geep7