Class 120 Swindon Cross Country DMU Detail differences.

[Jamiel]

I am modelling a Class 120 Swindon Cross Country DMU from the Craftsman kits plus a host of other parts.

 

It is a class that has an amazing number of detail differences, the buffers range from large round, large round cropped top and bottom to oval, even different ones on the same end of a car. Grab handles on the driver’s doors varied a lot as well. I suspect that being a work-a-day DMU with a relatively long life span that later in their lives they tended to be repaired with whatever fitted rather than maintaining the original style.
 

I am modelling what I think was an original set Driving Motor Second with lavatory (DMSL) 50677, Trailer Second Buffet (TSLRB), 59289 Driving Motor Brake Composite (DMBC) 50725 in overall green livery with speed whiskers. 1960-62 ish.

Looking at the inner ends I have noticed a great deal of variation. I think I have sussed the ends for the driving units. The DMSL has floor to roof handles on both sides. The DMBC having only a small grad handle on the right side with one going up to the roof on the left.

EDIT. I may be generalising as grab handles, when some of these may be drain pipes of some sort.



 

I also think I have worked out which centre cars have full length handles and some no detail on ends at all. I think Trailer Second Buffet (TSLRB) have full length handles on both sides and both ends and Trailer Second with lavatory (TSL) have full length grab handle at one end and nothing at the other.


 

I am puzzled about the exhausts. Some have covers over them top and bottom, some just top, some just bottom and s0me none at all. My guess is that over the years they were added for safety, or left off due to ease of maintenance.
 

There seem to be quite a few pictures of the exhausts on the units later in life but I have only found one of them when in green livery, picture 4.



What is the likely state of the exhausts early in the lives of the cars? Covered or not? Pic 4 would suggest covered.
 

One other question, what colour were the curtains in the units, and were they that same in first and second class?
 

I know that the best solution is to model the set following a particular set of photos, but I don’t have a set of shots of all the details on the units in original green.
 

If anyone can offer help with the detail differences, and also the reason why I would be most grateful. It is a nice model to build, and it would be good to get as much correct detail as possible.
 

Here is an image of the driving trailers in progress, lots of small details to still be added.



Please feel free to expand on the detail differences and any experiences of the Class 120s in general.

Thanks in advance.

Jamie

Edited August 12, 2018 by Jamiel

[Fat Controller]

What you have called 'full-length handles' are the water fillers for the toilets, so will only be present where there is a toilet.

Curtains, at least when I remember seeing them, were orange. I think they may only have been in First Class.

[Jamiel]

Thanks for that. I suspected they might be some sort of piping judging by the nozzle like end, which from what you have said would be exactly that. I presume that the guard would have his own toilet judging by the piping to his compartment.

In the early days at least the 120s were curtained throughout. I suspect being a 'Cross Country' unit they were aiming to provide a more luxurious experience for the traveller than short haul DMUs did. Orange would make sense, certainly for first class, and possibly second too.

Here is a link to an image on Railcar.co.uk showing the curtains. There are also plans on there which show the toilets where you have suggested they would be.

EDIT - that website are behaving like idiots blocking image links.

I will use a thicker gauge of wire for the piping rather than that I have used for grab handles elsewhere on the model.

I have found the Railcar.co.uk site very helpful - https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-120/ as well as wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_120

Edited March 12, 2022 by Jamiel

[Fat Controller]

The Swindon Cross-Country units were the main type of train for passenger services west of Swansea throughout my childhood. I remember going to the Buffet on one on a trip to Tenby when I was five or six, right at the beginning of the 1960s.

There may have been curtains throughout when built, but in later days, they'd all gravitated to the First-Class Saloon. The Buffets didn't last long but, strangely, the space they had occupied wasn't used for extra passenger accommodation.

[markw]

What you have called 'full-length handles' are the water fillers for the toilets, so will only be present where there is a toilet.

Curtains, at least when I remember seeing them, were orange. I think they may only have been in First Class.

The fillers are not just for the toilets, there would also be a water tank for the Buffet with fillers.

Originally there were 4 steps to the left of the gangway which required a full length handrail if there was not a filler there, see photo 2 above, note no nozzle at the bottom and it does not extend across the roof, and the top three steps have been removed.

[Butler Henderson]

Given the state of them in their last years working out of Derby Etches Park I would be wary of relying on photos of that period being correct for the vehicles in their earlier days.

[turbos]

Here's a recent photo of a curtain on the Swindon DMU in Bo'ness, hope it helps.

 

Brian.

 

.

 

One other question, what colour were the curtains in the units, and were they that same in first and second class?
 

 

[EddieK]

My first ride in a Class 120 was in Summer 1979 and the unit had not long come out of works. I noted that orange curtains were fitted throughout (First and second class). I suspect that orange curtains were a feature of the BR corporate blue era, and a less garish colour would have been fitted when new. Memory suggests a biscuit colour curtain but I look forward to someone proving me wrong.

A feature on loco hauled stock was that filler spouts for drinking water had a hinged metal box-like cover over the spot itself. (On Mark 2 and 3 stock the spout was in a recess and this should have had a hinged flap). Presumably to remind staff filling the tanks to put drinking water in the buffet tank, whereas any old water would suffice to flush the toilet.

I suspect that the exhausts were covered with mesh from new. Most likely to protect staff climbing up the body end steps from hot exhausts. The images above where the exhausts are exposed show refurbished cars that had a larger silencer fitted as part of the process, no need to cover these with mesh as the steps were long since abolished.

[SRman]

There are some great detail shots in your first post, Jamie. These will help me to finally finish off my 120 unit, built many years ago from the same Craftsman kit as yours. I re-chassised mine a few years ago with a newer Hornby class 121 bought cheaply for that purpose.

I have only ever completed the seat unit for the DMBC, with the other two retaining the standard Lima 117 interiors as I never got around to changing them.

My only experience with class 120s was late in their lives on the Ayr line, riding from Glasgow to Troon, where we met friends for a couple of days stopover. My wife and I rode in the downgraded first class section at the front of the DMBS, with black and grey seats (still first class though!), but no curtains by then. The inside of the cab roof dome had heaps of masking tape in all the corners, and a message scrawled in black marker saying "Very cold and draughty cab".

p.s. The ride was in 1986.

Edited August 14, 2018 by SRman

[EddieK]

There are some great detail shots in your first post, Jamie. These will help me to finally finish off my 120 unit, built many years ago from the same Craftsman kit as yours. I re-chassised mine a few years ago with a newer Hornby class 121 bought cheaply for that purpose.

 

I have only ever completed the seat unit for the DMBC, with the other two retaining the standard Lima 117 interiors as I never got a round to changing them.

 

My only experience with class 120s was late in their lives on the Ayr line, riding from Glasgow to Troon, where we met friends for a couple of days stopover. My wife and I rode in the downgraded first class section at the front of the DMBS, with black and grey seats (still first class though!), but no curtains by then. The inside of the cab roof dome had heaps of masking tape in all the corners, and a message scrawled in black marker saying "Very cold and draughty cab".

 

p.s. The ride was in 1986.

 

During 1986, ScotRail had to take the entire Class 107 fleet out of traffic, apart from a handful of vehicles. To keep services running, they plundered the fleet of withdrawn DMU cars from ER and LMR and ended up with a rag-bag collection of 101, 105 and 120 type vehicles. The 120s became available in 1986 as Derby Etches Park Depot received a shiny new fleet of Class 150/1 units early that year. 

Many of these vehicles were stop-gap measures until the 107s were declared fit for use again, but when I briefly spent some time at ScotRail DMU HQ in May 1987 they were spending a bit of money on a small fleet of Class 120s to keep them going for a few years. More details on the Railcar Association website.

A consequence of the temporary mixed fleet was the potential to have a 105 MBS in blue, a 107 centre car in Strathclyde and a 120 MBC in Blue/Grey formed into a unit. 

 

As an aside, the reason for the Class 107 temporary withdrawal was the discovery of cracks in the axles. One unit was fitted with strain gauges and driven all around the usual routes. The technical people monitoring the equipment found that everything was within limits wherever they went and so they were mystified. One day, they left the machine switched on as the test unit pulled into Ayr Depot fuelling point and the readings were seen to go off the scale! Apparently the general oily mess on the track, combined with track geometry caused wheel spin that led to only one wheel gripping, causing the cracks in the axles. 

During the course of investigations, the fleet continued to be overhauled and almost the entire fleet was parked in Falkland Yard, Ayr on my visit in October 1986, most of them freshly painted. Obviously the 107s returned to traffic for a few years until the Sprinters took over.

 

[Jamiel]

Thanks for all the replies.

The curtains are an interesting one to model, I suspect that I will go orange for the first class windows and then a subdued grey or light brown (biscuit) for the rest. They will help mask the centre car having the Replica chassis which is a great drive unit, but has quite a high profile for passenger units with lots of windows.

 

Looking at the photos it does look like what Eddie has said, that they were covered from new. That might be quite hard to model, I will see what I can manage.

The Railcar website is an excellent resource for photos of DMUs, I have a directory full of shots downloaded from there that I use for reference when modelling. I have also Photoshopped some bits together like the above image so I can see exactly the parts I am concentrating on.

 

I am posting progress, or to be exact slow progress of the build on my Ellerby thread (linked in my signature below), but will post some photos of the units when they are finished, or have progressed a lot more.

Thank you again for all the information and replies.

Jamie

Edited August 15, 2018 by Jamiel

[Jamiel]

Since I put this image together to print out while working on the chassis, I thought I would share it here as I might be useful for others modelling these DMUs. The white dots are to show the cab end clearly when the images are cropped down.



Jamie

[EddieK]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

The curtains are an interesting one to model, I suspect that I will go orange for the first class windows and then a subdued grey or light brown (biscuit) for the rest. They will help mask the centre car having the Replica chassis which is a great drive unit, but has quite a high profile for passenger units with lots of windows.

 

Looking at the photos it does look like what Eddie has said, that they were covered from new. That might be quite hard to model, I will see what I can manage.

 

The Railcar website is an excellent resource for photos of DMUs, I have a directory full of shots downloaded from there that I use for reference when modelling. I have also Photoshopped some bits together like the above image so I can see exactly the parts I am concentrating on.

 

I am posting progress, or to be exact slow progress of the build on my Ellerby thread (linked in my signature below), but will post some photos of the units when they are finished, or have progressed a lot more.

 

Thank you again for all the information and replies.

 

Jamie

Thanks for the latest update. Out of interest, what do you plan to use to represent the curtains? I recall that a colleague has used cast whitemetal curtains on something, but equipping a three car DMU with these might be expensive.... Recently I have had to fit (orange) curtains to a pair of Class 101 units and utilised orange tissue paper to cut curtain shapes which were glued inside the glazing (though not touching the actual "glass" of the window).

The curtains used in DMUs were "flat" material, although this would be scrunched up when the curtains were pulled back and secured in the tie-back loops. It was not until the InterCity coach refurbishment of the mid 1980s that BR had steam-pleated curtains - i.e. they looked like those crinkle potato crisps even when fully extended across the window 

[Jamiel]

I have bought a couple of packets of the MJT white metal cast curtains, but I am also going to explore making some cast resin ones, probably making a mould from the MJT ones.

http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2931.php

It would take three packets to do the full 3 car set, so not that bad.

I will be interested to see how they turn out. One of my pet hates are the curtains in the Hornby Pullman coaches, which just look too regular and very hand drawn to me so I didn't want to copy those. I have printed out curtains in some of the buildings I have made but have mixed feeling about those.

I will post some pictures when it gets to that stage. I am posting updates on the build on my Ellerby thread linked below.

Hope that helps.

Jamie

[SRman]

If it is of any help, I made curtains for a road coach from tissue paper, painted with thinned enamels. The paint preserves the paper, but allows the weave to show through.

 

[Swindon 123]

I bought a pack of thin multi-coloured tissue paper to make curtains out of. The orange colour seemed just right. Here are some examples.

 

Some 101's on Wibdenshow, many years ago.

 

 

 

A class 103 on Wibdenshaw, although I'm not happy with the look of the curtains.

 

Paul J.

[Market65]

That class 103 looks so real. Truly excellent work.

 

Rob.

[EddieK]

Today I suddenly remembered that there was a picture of a newish Class 120 in my 1979 Railway World Annual. From what I can see, the curtains in First Class look to be light grey in colour, and this fits nicely with the description of the interiors of Swindon's Class 124 units on the railcar website. 

I would suspect that the same colour of curtains would be fitted throughout the Class 120 accommodation.

[TravisM]

In the insane hope that someone will do a r-t-r OO Scale Class 120 in the near future (I turn 60 next year and I’d love to see one produced way before I turn my toes up), the WR ones I believe were split between CF, BR and LA but can I ask how far east on the WR did they get? Have they ever appeared at Paddington, Reading in the 1970’s or early 80’s, or was Bath or Swindon as far as they got?

Edited December 24, 2018 by jools1959

[SRman]

They certainly got down as far as Weymouth. As these were usually on Cardiff to Weymouth workings, the units were Cardiff-based ones from all the evidence I have. That was more than enough justification for me to have my Craftsman kit converted unit on my Southern-based layout. It also means they almost certainly worked through Bristol Temple Meads on the way through.


P_20181224_131014_vHDR_On by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr


In view of Jamiel's original postings on the myriad differences between individual units and vehicles, I'm not sure my unit has all the correct details for the numbers I chose.

[The Johnster]

Cardiff-Weymouth trains reversed at Temple Meads, as did Cardiff-Portsmouth.  Cardiff sets worked as far as Cheltenham, with a turn to Worcester and back via Hereford on Sundays, and to Crewe on the North to West line via Hereford and Shrewsbury.  Laira had the more modern type with a 4 character headcode panel let in below the cab windows.

 

That class 103 looks so real. Truly excellent work.

Rob.

The whole scene is pretty convincing, and there's nothing that gives it away as a model at all.

Edited December 25, 2018 by The Johnster

[Pete Thorpe]

https://www.railcar.co.uk/data/vehicle/ will give a history of the required vehicle including dates of depot allocations, and Reading had sets L571, L426, L592 and maybe others allocated there.

 

I intend building one of these units in N, specifically one of the last batch with 4-character headcode panels and in blue with small yellow warning panels, allocated to Laira over the period 1968-1971, and https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-120/ has been an invaluable mine of information, enabling me to pinpoint which vehicles meet all these requirements.

 

Some nice detail photos of the inner ends Jamiel, and thanks for the heads-up on curtains; I'd forgotten about them!

 

Pete

[Fat Controller]

On 25/12/2018 at 00:24, The Johnster said:

Cardiff-Weymouth trains reversed at Temple Meads, as did Cardiff-Portsmouth.  Cardiff sets worked as far as Cheltenham, with a turn to Worcester and back via Hereford on Sundays, and to Crewe on the North to West line via Hereford and Shrewsbury.  Laira had the more modern type with a 4 character headcode panel let in below the cab windows.

 

The whole scene is pretty convincing, and there's nothing that gives it away as a model at all.

Laira sets made infrequent visits west of Swansea in the early 1970s.

[brushman47544]

57 minutes ago, Pete Thorpe said:

https://www.railcar.co.uk/data/vehicle/ will give a history of the required vehicle including dates of depot allocations, and Reading had sets L571, L426, L592 and maybe others allocated there.

 

I intend building one of these units in N, specifically one of the last batch with 4-character headcode panels and in blue with small yellow warning panels, allocated to Laira over the period 1968-1971, and https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-120/ has been an invaluable mine of information, enabling me to pinpoint which vehicles meet all these requirements.

 

Some nice detail photos of the inner ends Jamiel, and thanks for the heads-up on curtains; I'd forgotten about them!

 

Pete

 

L571 and L592 were Gloucester Class 119 sets, not 120s, when they were at Reading. They were used on the Gatwick services with the former buffet area of the centre car converted to extra baggage storage. L426 was a Pressed Steel Class 117 set. As a regular user of the Reading - Redhill line in the 80s I never saw a Class 120 vehicle in any Reading allocated sets.

[Pete Thorpe]

3 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

 

L571 and L592 were Gloucester Class 119 sets, not 120s, when they were at Reading. They were used on the Gatwick services with the former buffet area of the centre car converted to extra baggage storage. L426 was a Pressed Steel Class 117 set. As a regular user of the Reading - Redhill line in the 80s I never saw a Class 120 vehicle in any Reading allocated sets.

My mistake, 59282 was the trailer buffet in those sets.

50741+50688, 50738+59299+50693, 50739+50695, 51573+59296+51582, 51574+51583, 51579+51588 were loaned to Reading in the 1960s for short periods.

Class 120 set 503 (presumably 51588 + 51579) at Reading Sept 1968

Edited March 23, 2019 by Pete Thorpe
Caption added