RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2018 Having seen the full photo, the train is composed of two full-thirds, LMS style van, and toad, without which, whither the guard? Whither the guard indeed; this is another anomaly. On a passenger train the guard should ride in the passenger section of the train, and there is no accommodation for him in this train, nor any lockable areas for mails or other valuables. This formation would be ok, if unusual, as empty stock. The Bala-Blaenau Festiniog Branch seems to specialise in these sorts of situations! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2018 I believe that, as well as two road vans, the GWR had some vacuum fitted (or piped) brake vans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 From the photos I’ve seen, the Brake Van in mixed trains appears to be unfitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2018 Nearly all brake vans are 'unfitted' in the strict sense of the word; most with vacuum hoses are 'piped through', so that a continuous vacuum can be maintained through the vehicle. As there is always a guard riding on the vehicle in traffic who can use the handbrake there is no need for automative brake from the loco. There will, on piped vans as well as the few properly fitted ones, be a 'setter' by which the guard can admit air to the train pipe, and a gauge to show the vacuum. A van with a through pipe will carry the bauxite fitted livery in BR days, and be itself 'XP' branded. It will, of course, often appear on the end of unfitted or part fitted trains. A 'piped through' van will have the actual pipe painted white, and a proper fully fitted one will have the pipe painted red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 There will, on piped vans as well as the few properly fitted ones, be a 'setter' by which the guard can admit air to the train pipe, and a gauge to show the vacuum. A couple of years ago I spent several fruitless days trying to discover where the setter and gauges are usually located. I'd assumed they'd be out on the balcony, somewhere near the handbrake standard, but I couldn't find a single photo of the vicinity that featured even a hint of either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted October 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) A couple of years ago I spent several fruitless days trying to discover where the setter and gauges are usually located. I'd assumed they'd be out on the balcony, somewhere near the handbrake standard, but I couldn't find a single photo of the vicinity that featured even a hint of either. Hi Mike, The 'setter' on a toad is always on the verandah, facing the main cabin door, with the handbrake behind you, and to your right. Depending on the mark (such as AA23) the setter will be atop of a piece of 2" steel pipe. The valve is exactly the same as found on a DMU. A standard vacuum gauge is screwed next to the cabin door, slightly above the setter position. This is mostly a standard placed item. Regardless of guard, he would be able to go to the same place, to do the same job. Johnster of this parish will be able to provide further information. Happy modelling, Ian. Edited because I posted slightly misleading text, since corrected. Sorry! Edited October 4, 2018 by tomparryharry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Marry, and shall, as Shakespeare used to say. On an LNER/BR standard van, and an LMS one, the setter and gauge were inside the cabin, out of the rain, on the same side as the stove but the other end, between the ducket seat and the end desk. The setter was not free standing but attached to the wall. The same type of red painted setter valve is found in passenger brake vans' guard's compartments as well. You can lift it quite easily against even the GW's 23" pressure, and it responds by making a suitable air inrush noise through the holes, so there's no mistaking what's happening. Edited October 4, 2018 by The Johnster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 Afternoon all. I'd originally planned to attend Wigan Show this weekend. Sadly I've had to take the decision to decline the visit. After weighing up what I needed to buy, then looking at the forecast and the 180 mile round trip.... I figured the money in fuel I have saved could go into the modelling fund. Having to tighten the belt, and look where I spend. I'd bought an advance ticket too, ah well....call it a donation to the club. Plan to do some modelling on Saturday instead. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Just looking into the fencing. I'm going Ratio wooden post....as for wire! I'm taking the Tim V approach (found another post from another forum)....no wire as it will be over scale in 4mm plus collects dust. Edited October 4, 2018 by 9793 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2018 The photo shows a possible way of 'suggesting' the presence of wires that are not there in fact; the staining on the posts which reveals the position of the wires where they are fixed to the side facing the camera, and the sun, creates an impressionist effect where your mind's eye happily fills them in for you. I have some unwired Ratio posts on my own layout, along with some concrete ones with wires, and will be considering the implications of this 'impressionist' method. I don't find dust a problem, but where wires are provided it is almost impossible to keep them straight and tensioned and the posts even ball park upright at the same time. It's worked on the road embankment approach to a bridge where the posts are closer together, but the boundary fence between the trading estate siding and WR is more of a problem. My wooden posts are fairly dark brown, and will need weathering to lighten them up a bit for this to be done. Another 'to do'! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 The photo shows a possible way of 'suggesting' the presence of wires that are not there in fact; the staining on the posts which reveals the position of the wires where they are fixed to the side facing the camera, and the sun, creates an impressionist effect where your mind's eye happily fills them in for you. I have some unwired Ratio posts on my own layout, along with some concrete ones with wires, and will be considering the implications of this 'impressionist' method. I don't find dust a problem, but where wires are provided it is almost impossible to keep them straight and tensioned and the posts even ball park upright at the same time. It's worked on the road embankment approach to a bridge where the posts are closer together, but the boundary fence between the trading estate siding and WR is more of a problem. My wooden posts are fairly dark brown, and will need weathering to lighten them up a bit for this to be done. Another 'to do'! Yes I think that is a good suggestion regarding the presume rust staining on to the posts. Painting/weathering will be interesting, looking at the above photo I suspect many of the posts have gone a light colour as the creosote has long since dried out. Another example. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Interesting approach - but in theory no different to leaving off telegraph wires. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) Friday Flashback.... (apologies it sounded good in my head! ) An interesting article about working the line that I would like to share. The last 'official' goods service on the branch from Friday 27th January, 1961. A love the description of how bad the weather became as they approached the summit near Cwm Prysor. 9752 and the last goods train is something I intend to depict on the layout at some point. It's an interesting read, enjoy! Edited October 5, 2018 by 9793 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2018 Interesting approach - but in theory no different to leaving off telegraph wires. Certainly similar, but a little more subtle in it's approach. In the case of the telegraph wires, you model the posts and your brain fills in the missing wires for you unless you think too hard about it and notice they are missing; as the wires sag in warmer weather and have a shape this doesn't always work as well as you'd like it to but is pretty effective from a side on veiwpoint. The fence wires do not sag so much, and if their position can be inferred from the rust stains one's brain is more likely to fill in the missing detail, though again success depends on not thinking about it and allowing sensory assumptions to be made. The fence posts are indeed likely to have gone a good while without creosoting, and the light grey of weathered wood would be the base colour. The Ratios have grooves on one side to accept the wires, which are the natural place to put the staining. What will be missing, and important on a Welsh layout be it Cwm Prysor or my South Wales Valley effort Cwmdimbath, is tufts of wool on the wires where the ever present sheep have brushed against them. If you really want to model these, then you should probably get out more, but they need to be shaking a little in the wind and battered by the uphill rain. Duw, it's 'ard, mun, aye... I have a run of Ratio posts in freshly creosoted livery between the railway and Cwmdimbath Non Political Club, and had thought of making a gap in the wires so that loco crews can nip over for a pint, along with a rough track through the undergrowth, but have never actually provided wires. I may well weather them so as to be able to suggest wires by the rust stain method one day. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 Regarding 'fence gate' I did go back and have a look at Geoff Taylor's Barmouth to see what he did.... Geoff left them out....but a spider clearly had other ideas! I can see the wires being more issues than they are worth. All photos I've look at on the Branch, taken from a similar viewing distance you would the layout, you can't really see them, granted you think you can because you know they are there, but when you actually look, they seem near invisible. I've had a look at some examples of those that have modelled them, and to me they look too heavy.....again though just my personal opinion. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) Regarding 'fence gate' I did go back and have a look at Geoff Taylor's Barmouth to see what he did.... p1190945.jpg Geoff left them out....but a spider clearly had other ideas! and then you speak to Geoff and he tells you he's now added the 'wire'.... I'll have a think..... Did have a look at the E Z line 'fine' but appears sold out from UK stockist. Edited October 5, 2018 by 9793 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Have a look at Pendon, where they have added the wires - I think it has detracted from the scene. And don't forget, Pendon is a permanent layout, in a controlled atmosphere, and yet the wires have gone all over the place! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Close up of genuine GW fencing on the Camerton branch. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) Close up of genuine GW fencing on the Camerton branch. Somersetshire Coal Canal Combe Hay (3).JPG I even had to zoom in to see the wires on both Pendon and the prototype photo! Tonight I've painted the platform top, ready for further work tomorrow. In the mean time, I took a snap of 4645 6.45am off Bala. Edited October 5, 2018 by 9793 18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom F Posted October 6, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) I've now surfaced the platform, mix of ash and talc first, then I felt it was too light, and following some advice from Geoff Taylor, I've gone over with earth powder.This view will somewhat alter over the next 6 months, as the Van will be obscured by the Station House (currently under commission). Further down the line, 7414 approaches Cwm Prysor with the late 7.15pm from Blaenau to Bala. Edited October 6, 2018 by 9793 20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 I'll be staying at Bala again soon, as I do every November and always enjoy a drive along that stretch of road, and often stop, if it's not raining or snowing and try to imagine how the line was, clinging to that rock face. Great Layout and pics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 I've just come in from the cold after giving the platform slabs there first coat of paint (umbral 121). Before that, Lass and I headed out for a short 2 and half mile walk! It was glorious! 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Lovely landscape, where is it, Yorkshire? Semmerwater? Cheers Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 Lovely landscape, where is it, Yorkshire? Semmerwater? Cheers Ray Top Marks Ray! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Thanks Tom Its history but over the years have passed by quite frequently. Top Marks Ray! We had a good sunset here tonight but it is cold. Cheers Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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