RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2018 Given that the usual English comment about Welsh is a deficiency of vowels, taking one away seems exceedingly cruel! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2018 Hi again, At least the Welsh have the decency to make their vowels clear; try Hebrew (in any of its forms) and you'll see what I mean. Regards, Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) Given that the usual English comment about Welsh is a deficiency of vowels, taking one away seems exceedingly cruel! Please correct me, but I thought they were:- A E I O U W Y Non-welsh speaking scholars will be heading for Google just about now... Prynhawn dda! Ian. Edited October 17, 2018 by tomparryharry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) I am referring to the view expressed by Englishmen who are completely unaware of Welsh language. Analysing humour always stops it being funny... When visiting friends in Aberystwyth about 20 years ago, staying in Waun Fawr, I was walking up from Llanbadarn Station (having used the VoR to get in/out of Aber) and a car drew up, with the driver asking in a broad Lancashire accent for directions to “makin’leth” (I am trying to spell it phonetically). I told him he needed to turn round and head back whence he had come by about 15 miles. I am English, by the way, but think it rude to not learn how to pronounce place names and basic pleasantries. Hi again, At least the Welsh have the decency to make their vowels clear; try Hebrew (in any of its forms) and you'll see what I mean. Regards, Alex. Lx, I blv they lv it to the rdr to fll in. Smn. Edited October 17, 2018 by Regularity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2018 Indeed, and it will be running down the other side of my shed! It's compressed but I have a plan that will fit into 13/14ft. Did you ever get hold of the May 1975 RM, and see the Railway of the Month layout, Penllyn? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Did you ever get hold of the May 1975 RM, and see the Railway of the Month layout, Penllyn? I must admit I haven't Simon, but I will now. I do have Keith Jaggers late 80's plan, which is what I'm using as a guide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2018 The author, Kevin Taylor, used the track plan of Bala, the station buildings from Dolgellau, and a goods shed based on Llandrillo, I think, but lengthened from 40’ to 60’. An article on that appeared in a 1973 Modeller. He also did a bit of work on modifying Airfix cows to look more like Welsh blacks (article in 1974) and had an interesting article on his loco fleet in the June 1975 RM. In case anyone is wondering about my powers of recall, the May 75 RM was my first issue, and I read and reread that article so much that I had to buy another copy, as the original issue fell apart! CJF’s editorial was more spot-on than usual. He comments on the realism of the layout, and of Stan Robert’s “Bakewell” layout (also featured), pointing out that they are both 00, yet still convey a believable representation of their chosen prototypes. Some important messages ther, which align with Cyril’s “Proprietary to Scale” articles, with which I retrospectively caught up via backnumber stands over the next few years. His January 75 article is essential reading in my mind... What an introduction to the adult side of the hobby that was! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 but lengthened from 40’ to 60’. Oh to have such space! I'm looking into modelling the last goods train that worked the line on January 27th 1961. It seems on these goods only services in the last month of operation, two Brake Vans were used, one a GWR Toad....the other a more standard type. I initially thought this was a BR standard Brake Van, but I now believe it's an exLNER Toad E. Would anyone be able to confirm this? 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2018 Steel end platforms and different grabrails on the LNER versions, concrete and simpler on BR. Neither of those pictures is clear enough to tell! LNER: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan500 BR: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan504 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Steel end platforms and different grabrails on the LNER versions, concrete and simpler on BR. Neither of those pictures is clear enough to tell! LNER: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan500 BR: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan504 I'm just looking how the ends appear next to the Toad behind, and there doesn't look to be enough space for concrete, platform ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2018 I don't believe it's an LNER (or BR) van with end platforms at all, but as Tom says an LNER Toad E, as per for example: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake and the new Hornby RTR model, and recent Parkside kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Yes, looks like it has the coach ventilators on roof, as mentioned in the thread about new Hornby model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Thanks Chris That would make sense...I bet trying to get hold of a weekly notice for the branch is near impossible now. You never know.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 There’s a fair bit of LNER in that train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2018 Lx, I blv they lv it to the rdr to fll in. Smn. radar? rider? rudder? This demonstrates the impracticability of trying to write without vowels. The Greeks realised this about 3000 years ago when they adopted, and added vowels to, the Phoenician alphabet (which had none). By the way, I did spot the rogue vowels that crept into your post... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) There’s a fair bit of LNER in that train. I've just had another look Jonathan, I can see two vans of LNER heritage but I'm presuming you have spotted something else possibly? If we are happy that is a Toad E, I'll look into getting one ordered. It's a bit far from home isn't it, or am I correct LNER Brake Vans were common user so would have found themselves all over the network (It was only GWR Toads that were restricted wasn't it)? Edited October 18, 2018 by 9793 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Qualilty's not the greatest, Tom, but the two A type containers might be in an LNER steel high (you can see the horizontal bar across the door, but I can't decide whether I'm imagining the dimples on the sides). I think the open four from the back is another of the same type. The vans you've spotted, they're quite distinctive. After that you're into speculation. The Plate might be ex-LNER, the bobol is less likely (looks more LMS/GW to me) and without a clear photo it's well nigh impossibel to be definite about the very rearmost wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 Qualilty's not the greatest, Tom, but the two A type containers might be in an LNER steel high (you can see the horizontal bar across the door, but I can't decide whether I'm imagining the dimples on the sides). I think the open four from the back is another of the same type. The vans you've spotted, they're quite distinctive. After that you're into speculation. The Plate might be ex-LNER, the bobol is less likely (looks more LMS/GW to me) and without a clear photo it's well nigh impossibel to be definite about the very rearmost wagons. Sadly as you know, most photographers are focusing on the loco, not the wagons. Well at least we know it’s a Toad E. I’ll get a Hornby one ordered. I need to make a start on containers, could you remind of that link on how you did yours at some point! Ta! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) Qualilty's not the greatest, Tom, but the two A type containers might be in an LNER steel high (you can see the horizontal bar across the door, but I can't decide whether I'm imagining the dimples on the sides). I think the open four from the back is another of the same type. The vans you've spotted, they're quite distinctive. After that you're into speculation. The Plate might be ex-LNER, the bobol is less likely (looks more LMS/GW to me) and without a clear photo it's well nigh impossibel to be definite about the very rearmost wagons. That steel high definitely has dimples, and looks like there might be a fitted 16 Ton mineral too... Edited October 18, 2018 by MartinWales 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2018 All brake vans became common user on nationalisation, unless there was as very specific reason to restrict their use, so they got about pretty quickly; perhaps not as quickly as general merchandise and non-circuit NPCC stock, but anything could turn up anywhere within a few months of January 1948. The WR did not like this at all, and promptly began branding it's toads to continue it's GW practice of allocating them to specific duties, and providing 'return to' branding where it couldn't get away with this. So GW toads tended to stay on former GW territory until they were withdrawn en masse in the early 60s because of a safety issue regarding the guard's ability to escape in an emergency if he was running veranda leading. The LNER 20 ton brake became the basis of the BR standard version, and these, along with the later builds of the LMS 20 tonner, lasted until the end of loose coupled working. It would be interesting to know the reason for the two vans on this train though. My first thought is an unbalanced working providing a spare van from the Conway Valley direction at Blaenau Ffestiniog, but this doesn't seem to be likely as a regular occurrence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2018 This has just been pointed out to me, but the infamous SLS special that ran over the branch in January 1961....and somebody couldn’t spell! 45DADDEA-1EF3-4F11-9389-42763F77DA5B.jpeg This mistake would alter the pronunciation of 'Festiniog'; a single f in Welsh is a V sound, as there is no V in the Welsh alphabet. Vestiniog. You need a double ff to make the English f sound. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted October 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2018 I'm just looking how the ends appear next to the Toad behind, and there doesn't look to be enough space for concrete, platform ends. So not a van with verandas that have been 'lost' due to telephotographic compression? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 No. That's definitely a Toad E. Tom, the RTR boys are on your side - Hattons have some of the steel highs in the bargain bin at the moment and Bachmann have just released the A type container as a spare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 It would be interesting to know the reason for the two vans on this train though. My first thought is an unbalanced working providing a spare van from the Conway Valley direction at Blaenau Ffestiniog, but this doesn't seem to be likely as a regular occurrence. It seems for whatever reason, that in the last year of operations as a 'goods only' branch, two Brake Vans were utilised. Regarding where the LNER one had come from, it can not have been the Conwy Valley line. The connection between the WR and LMR lines was not completed until 1964, three years after the Trawsfynydd-Bala section had closed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 No. That's definitely a Toad E.Tom, the RTR boys are on your side - Hattons have some of the steel highs in the bargain bin at the moment and Bachmann have just released the A type container as a spare. Ah would that be these! they have been sat in my large RTR chest/box. Presume containers wouldn’t need tieing down in a high fit? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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