Traverser

[Pinehill]

Considering my next project & thinking about using a 6 road traverser fed by a single track. What is the best way to wire to the traverser. I guess a common negative looped on each track with enough flexibility to allow movement of the traverser but what about the other positive wire from the feed? Is there an alternative & better system than the brass bolts method? Does anybody have a suitable wiring plan or photos showing what they have done? I am a little confused about the whole thing as it is new to me. Always used points in the past but space restrictions is taking me towards a traverser!

Many thanks.

[johnb]

The advantage of the bolt method is that as well as electrical continuity it sets and holds the track alignment, Provided the bolts are a tight fit.

 

I am using a sector plate and use 1mm brass rod which is a tight fit into small bore copper tube. The traverser does overhang the main board structure as it swings and this ensures that the tracks overhanging empty space are electrically dead. Important with DCC running as it ensures that only the working connection is live and aligned. Entering a wrong loco id could be expensive!

To deal with the incoming tracks which could also end in open space when the sector plate is at it's limits, I have boarded the area under the sector plate, the max drop is then only the baseboard thickness.

 

John

[DCB]

A tapered spring loaded bolt or a strip dropping into a slot are good ways to both locate and feed electricity to traversers.   Traversers eat width and need engineering carefully if they are to move freely and avoid rocking stock off the rails.

 

Is it a straight forward end on traverser? If it has an approach bend consider a Hockey Stick traverser. it uses a lot less width but cannot be quite as long as a conventional traverser. losing 20mm length per road  compared with taking 50mm width per road.

[chaz]

I made my own locking pin system for a sector plate on an O gauge layout. 

 

 

This was based on PCB pieces. These were electrically gapped in such a way that not only the track on the sector plate but also the last few inches of the approach track were dead until the locking pin was slid in. 

 

Chaz

[Junctionmad]

I cant see why you need intermittent DC connections anyway , consider a "cable chain " and wire the tracks permanently , if DCC nothing further to do , if DC use section switching  with proper switches . Ive seen too many installations over time with brass bolts and other dodgy systems that get unreliable and requires poking and prodding 

[Clive Mortimore]

I done a similar thing to Chaz with Sheffield Exchange Mk1.

 

 

 

There was no need for any wiring on the traverser, Using two "bolts" the traverser track was fed from the track it was aligned to.

 

I did have wires on the traverser but they were just isolating sections so I could have two short DMUs on one track.

 

Edit , the OP asked for the best way, this might not be the best way but it was the way which worked for me.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Pinehill]

I cant see why you need intermittent DC connections anyway , consider a "cable chain " and wire the tracks permanently , if DCC nothing further to do , if DC use section switching  with proper switches . Ive seen too many installations over time with brass bolts and other dodgy systems that get unreliable and requires poking and prodding

 

Thanks, that sounds better than brass bolts but how do you 'lock' the required track to the on scene section? Would you have a wiring diagram?

Regards.

[chaz]

Thanks, that sounds better than brass bolts but how do you 'lock' the required track to the on scene section? Would you have a wiring diagram?

Regards.

 

 

I would advise against any system that relies on the right switches being thrown by the operator(s). Sooner or later a mistake made might well lead to stock falling off the end the track. 

 

There is a potential trap for the unwary lurking in DCC control. An operator tries to drive a locomotive but it doesn't move. he notices that he has the wrong loco "up" on the display. He changes the address and happily drives the right loco. Meanwhile the "wrong" loco is sitting there and can't respond to the the commands sent in error because it is on a dead track on the traverser. Later on that traverser track is switched on. That loco immediately starts to move, responding to the commands sent earlier, and can't be stopped until someone has entered its address and takes over its control. 

Now that's not a big deal if the track was energised by a locking bolt because the track will be aligned - embarrassing? maybe, but no damage happens. If the track was energised by throwing a switch then maybe the track has not been aligned - WOOPS!

 

I saw this happen on my O gauge layout and a disaster was only averted by a friend of mine grabbing the loco just before it reached the track end. I quickly redesigned the electrical connections so that such an incident was impossible.

 

Chaz

[21C123]

Hi

 

My traverser is used on our OO modular system, 1.3 m modules usually. It is double ended so can be used in a continuous layout or end to end.

The deck runs on drawer runners, the operating handle in the centre has a wire cable below.

 

.

 

When you want to move the deck the cable is pulled, this pulls back two spring loaded bolts which are engaged into holes in aluminium index plates at each end. This also turns off the power to the common rail by the micro switch on one end. Photo below.

 

 

The other end also has a microswirch but this only powers the indicator leds. The other rail on each track is livened through its reed switch. In the photo below the reed switches are on the veroboard with a magnet glued to the aluminium bracket. So the power is only live on the road aligned with the bracket. What this doesn’t show is the power feed cable which plugs into the 3.5 mm photo socket beside the veroboard and looping back to the fixed tracks, the photo was taken during the traversers refurbishment and I cant access it at the moment.

 

 

So in practice to drive a train on you move the deck to an empty track, turn the power switch to select which end the train is coming from, drive on and turn the power switch off if wanted . To change tracks pull the cable and move the deck, which can be done one handed, the leds will be on while the cable is pulled. release the cable, make sure the bolts have engaged, they click into place, the leds will go out, turn the power switch to the correct end and drive off.

 

It takes longer to write than do....

 

Roger

Edited September 14, 2018 by 21C123

[Junctionmad]

I would advise against any system that relies on the right switches being thrown by the operator(s). Sooner or later a mistake made might well lead to stock falling off the end the track.

 

There is a potential trap for the unwary lurking in DCC control. An operator tries to drive a locomotive but it doesn't move. he notices that he has the wrong loco "up" on the display. He changes the address and happily drives the right loco. Meanwhile the "wrong" loco is sitting there and can't respond to the the commands sent in error because it is on a dead track on the traverser. Later on that traverser track is switched on. That loco immediately starts to move, responding to the commands sent earlier, and can't be stopped until someone has entered its address and takes over its control.

Now that's not a big deal if the track was energised by a locking bolt because the track will be aligned - embarrassing? maybe, but no damage happens. If the track was energised by throwing a switch then maybe the track has not been aligned - WOOPS!

 

I saw this happen on my O gauge layout and a disaster was only averted by a friend of mine grabbing the loco just before it reached the track end. I quickly redesigned the electrical connections so that such an incident was impossible.

 

Chaz

DCC should never have dead track sections , on traversors or turntables or anything , it’s a receipe for unexpected movement as you have related.

 

If the traversor is DCC then simply power the whole system up and let the loco selection do its thing , obviously you provide track stops to catch anything unwarranted .

 

For DC , simply wire each track to a rotary selection switch , you can use a second pole to switch a nice big LED that can light up beside the correct track powered so as to avoid selecting the wrong road inadvertently if you wish ( this also gives you the ability to power locos on track not immediately selected as the through track of the traversor

 

Of course from time to time the wrong road may be energized , but this is of no more consequence then any other section switching error , which occurs all the time on layouts including people un-isolating isolating sections and then the train standing there runs into the buffers as the operators are focused elsewhere watching the intended loco moving ( seen that recently )

 

One thing for sure , door bolts are not designed to conduct electricity , so don’t use them for it , future users will thank you , if you feel you must have automatic power up of the correct active track , then use proper electrical switches like microswitches activated by mechanical positioning of the traversor , mechanical locks can then be any suitable device that provides sufficient precision

Dave

Edited September 14, 2018 by Junctionmad

[chaz]

DCC should never have dead track sections , on traversors or turntables or anything , it’s a receipe for unexpected movement as you have related.

 

If the traversor is DCC then simply power the whole system up and let the loco selection do its thing , obviously you provide track stops to catch anything unwarranted .

 

For DC , simply wire each track to a rotary selection switch , you can use a second pole to switch a nice big LED that can light up beside the correct track powered so as to avoid selecting the wrong road inadvertently if you wish ( this also gives you the ability to power locos on track not immediately selected as the through track of the traversor

 

Of course from time to time the wrong road may be energized , but this is of no more consequence then any other section switching error , which occurs all the time on layouts including people un-isolating isolating sections and then the train standing there runs into the buffers as the operators are focused elsewhere watching the intended loco moving ( seen that recently )

 

One thing for sure , door bolts are not designed to conduct electricity , so don’t use them for it , future users will thank you , if you feel you must have automatic power up of the correct active track , then use proper electrical switches like microswitches activated by mechanical positioning of the traversor , mechanical locks can then be any suitable device that provides sufficient precision

Dave

 

 

I agree with almost all you say. I wouldn't use door bolts (regardless of any conductivity problems) - they are too sloppy to align accurately. However the locking pins I used, with two telescopic sizes of brass tubes, one as plug and the other as socket, worked very reliably. They did need a very occasional clean, but very much less than the track. Ironically I did add some microswitches to effect some interlocking for the signals.

 

Unexpected movement might well be a disaster with a traverser. I'm looking at a loco and wondering why it's not moving, meanwhile behind me something expensive is creeping quietly towards a fall to the floor. 

 

Chaz

Edited September 15, 2018 by chaz

[Junctionmad]

I agree with almost all you say. I wouldn't use door bolts (regardless of any conductivity problems) - they are too sloppy to align accurately. However the locking pins I used, with two telescopic sizes of brass tubes, one as plug and the other as socket, worked very reliably. They did need a very occasional clean, but very much less than the track. Ironically I did add some microswitches to effect some interlocking for the signals.

 

Unexpected movement might well be a disaster with a traverser. I'm looking at a loco and wondering why it's not moving, meanwhile behind me something expensive is creeping quietly towards a fall to the floor.

 

Chaz

Seriously , if your traverser allows stock to fall on the floor , you need to look at the design , stock can be inadvertently moved anyway , ie just pushed , so all traversers should incorporate track stops , this can be as simple as a bounding box wall etc.

 

Hence the failure mode you predict should never happen

Edited September 15, 2018 by Junctionmad

[chaz]

Seriously , if your traverser allows stock to fall on the floor , you need to look at the design , stock can be inadvertently moved anyway , ie just pushed , so all traversers should incorporate track stops , this can be as simple as a bounding box wall etc.

 

Hence the failure mode you predict should never happen

 

 

Again, I have to agree with you BUT it's not always so easy to arrange. A traverser that has four tracks that can each be aligned with one outlet track would require a wall seven tracks wide to protect it - would it not? Possible certainly but maybe clumsy and inconvenient.

 

Chaz

[Junctionmad]

Again, I have to agree with you BUT it's not always so easy to arrange. A traverser that has four tracks that can each be aligned with one outlet track would require a wall seven tracks wide to protect it - would it not? Possible certainly but maybe clumsy and inconvenient.

 

Chaz

No it merely means you have a bounding box wall on the non traverser bit. You don’t need to have track to protect the traverser track , all you want to do is to provide “ stop ends “

[Pinehill]

No it merely means you have a bounding box wall on the non traverser bit. You don’t need to have track to protect the traverser track , all you want to do is to provide “ stop ends “

Exactly, a length of plywood strip or even Peco buffer stops?

[Right Away]

All 4 roads of my traverser which supply a double track line have permanent DCC electrical feeds from the main bus via a flexible cable.

The traverser is formed as a long shallow box with sides and back end 60mm high of 9mm plywood. A thin plastic foam strip is glued to the far end to protect stock in the event of unauthorised movements.

[Pinehill]

My layouts are Analog DC in case that makes a difference to people's views & advice.

Thanks.

[DCB]

I done a similar thing to Chaz with Sheffield Exchange Mk1.

 

 

 

 

 

There was no need for any wiring on the traverser, Using two "bolts" the traverser track was fed from the track it was aligned to.

 

I did have wires on the traverser but they were just isolating sections so I could have two short DMUs on one track.

 

Edit , the OP asked for the best way, this might not be the best way but it was the way which worked for me.

It looks like its against a wall, how does it actually traverse?

 

Considering my next project & thinking about using a 6 road traverser fed by a single track. What is the best way to wire to the traverser. I guess a common negative looped on each track with enough flexibility to allow movement of the traverser but what about the other positive wire from the feed? Is there an alternative & better system than the brass bolts method? Does anybody have a suitable wiring plan or photos showing what they have done? I am a little confused about the whole thing as it is new to me. Always used points in the past but space restrictions is taking me towards a traverser!

Many thanks.

 

Traversers are great for exhibitions where space is not generally an issue but they are big items.  If you are at the planning stage then maybe there are alternative solutions.   My "Hockey stick" Traverser slides lengthways but needs a curved approach and exchanges a few inches of length for rather more inches of width. About 4" X 6" of length for 6" X 60" of width.

However my next project is a short traverser with straight and four different curved rails to act as a 5 way point feeding a static 5 road yard.  I intend  to ballast the traversing bit with lead sheet to hold it down firmly. The traversing bit needs to travel wider than the baseboard but I'm working on that. and  Plan B is for the traversing bit to be cassettes not a traverser.   Plan C has the traversing bit as a 6 sided "Drum" which revolves to align the tracks.  I must have a sit down. My brain hurts.

[Clive Mortimore]

It looks like its against a wall, how does it actually traverse?

 

Hi David

 

The photo is a bit of an optical illusion there was a gap of a foot between the wall and the traverser when in the central position. All tracks on the traverser aligned with both the up and down lines. I did have to remember when track eleven, the nearest to the operator was serving the up line that I couldn't run a train out on the down line. As it was an end to end Minories type layout there was only one setting of the points that would allow a train to arrive and at the same time one to depart and for me to be able to control (stop) two trains going in opposite directions lead me to run only one train at a time.

 

 

I had moved the layout down the garage nearer the door so it stood even further out.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

My layouts are Analog DC in case that makes a difference to people's views & advice.

Thanks.

As i said in my earlier post there is no need to wire a traverser, if you use a bolt method to both align the tracks and conduct the electricity. Only takes one bolt to be withdrawn and the power is lost. 

[Junctionmad]

As i said in my earlier post there is no need to wire a traverser, if you use a bolt method to both align the tracks and conduct the electricity. Only takes one bolt to be withdrawn and the power is lost.

 

As I said earlier bolts are crap at being conductors , they are designed to lock doors , please use proper switches designed for the job

[ardbealach]

A simple stop arrangement to prevent rogue locomotives and stock from falling off the traverser (and also off the run in roads) is to drill a 5mm or smaller diameter hole in the centre of each track and drop in a golf tee into the hole for each separate track.  The golf tee is then the stop block, and it is then removed when the particular track is 'fired up' to be used. 

 

In my experience the use of brass shoot bolts - the ones which hold cupboard doors in place - have too much slack in them to work to the tolerances of track alignment and they should be avoided, unless a shim is added either to the bolt, or to its receiver, to tighten the tolerances.   (AM)

[Pinehill]

As I said earlier bolts are crap at being conductors , they are designed to lock doors , please use proper switches designed for the job

Yes quite honestly I am trying to avoid using bolts! Can somebody show me a wiring diagram? I want to run a single track from my scenic board to the edge of a 5 or 6 track traverser with a plug to take the 2 wires under the baseboard to presumably a terminal block on the traverser where the positive wire would be split to feed each traverser road with a switch (rotary or individuals) to control which one is live. The negative wire I guess would be wired as a common return. That is the basis of what I wish to do but not sure how to get a good locking system with each track. Not bolts!

Cheers.

[Clive Mortimore]

As I said earlier bolts are crap at being conductors , they are designed to lock doors , please use proper switches designed for the job

Look at the photos, you can't buy them in B&Q. I made the "bolts" 1/8 inch tube soldered on to copper PCB boards, screwed on the baseboards with 1/8 inch rod passing through them. Alignment and conductivity was good. It worked, no runway trains on lines not lined up, and no wires across the baseboards. Perfect for DC running.

[Clive Mortimore]

Yes quite honestly I am trying to avoid using bolts! Can somebody show me a wiring diagram? I want to run a single track from my scenic board to the edge of a 5 or 6 track traverser with a plug to take the 2 wires under the baseboard to presumably a terminal block on the traverser where the positive wire would be split to feed each traverser road with a switch (rotary or individuals) to control which one is live. The negative wire I guess would be wired as a common return. That is the basis of what I wish to do but not sure how to get a good locking system with each track. Not bolts!

Cheers.

Wiring diagram

 

With a traverser you need something that will keep the tracks aligned when running the trains on or off, but the holding devise needs to be pulled out the way when the traverser sides across. A friend of mine used a system where the holding device was a pin that dropped into an alignment hole vertically. The siding part of the traverser had a series of holes that corresponded to the tracks. The supporting frame had one hole. When track one was lined up the hole for track one was above the hole in the support frame, the pin was inserted. On changing to track two the pin was removed, track two lined up and the pin inserted.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Clive Mortimore