cabbie37 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Hello. I'm a born again modeller returning to the hobby after an absence of 35 years. Having read other posts (I've been folowing RM Web for quite a while) I can see I'm not alone in that. A lot has changed since I last dabbled and I need some projects to get involved in to hone my skills and come to terms with new components and techniques. I have always had a soft spot for the old Triang L1 and have seen that others do as well. As I have a couple of them ripe for improvement on the bench, I have decided to set about detailing one of them for my first project. This is where I need help. As I say, availibilty and standard of componentry has improved beyond measure so, as I start to think about how I will approach this, I am looking for advice on where I should be able to track these all down. If anyone was prepared to offer pointers based on the following image I have annotated, I'd be really grateful.. and the parts I need are as follows: A Replacement chassis (including Motor and gearbox) B Westinghouse pump C Snifter valves D Clack valves E Handrail and knobs F Steam Pipe (?) G Chimney H Buffers I Whistle and Safety valves J Steam Heating pipes etc K Various pipework L Cab backhead M Paint and transfers I have already acquired a better tender from a Bacnhamm 'N' I will be doing this in 00 so choice of wheels would also be useful. Apologies in advance for any errors in the names I have given to the components. Any advice or suggestions will be gratefully received, particularly if folks think I have missed something... Many thanks in advance... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobach47 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 i'm doing the same but using a modified Q class tender - i am stuck at the moment as i can't find any photos or drawings of the cab layout 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 I would expect that companies like Markits, Alan Gibson Workshop and Southeastern Finecast will have the parts Markits also do the wheels and axles to fit the Triang/Hornby chassis and Alan Gibson do some nice coupling rods Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbie37 Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 Thanks for the responses so far. I have already started looking at the resources suggested. Some fairly intensive Googling over the last 24 hours has come up with some likely providers. Markits has a range of Westinghouse pumps, can anyone suggest the most suitable? I'm afraid I cant work out which here is the most appropriate? http://www.markits.com/news.html It's tricky to do much more Markits based research as their catalogue isn't yet available.. Similarly, Alan Gibson shows a Westinghouse pump but without an illustration, it's difficult to say whether it is the correct version... Some of the other research I have been doing is looking at more photographs and this one.... show a further pipe from the Smokebox, though I don't know the name to give to this component.. I don't live too far from Peterborough so my plan is to identify everything I need before the Exhibition there in December when I plan to hoover up everything I need in one fell swoop.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.A.T.Ford Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 It isn't a Westinghouse pump it's a steam reversing device. S.E Finecast do them. The pipe into the smoke box is part of the injector system possibly an exhaust injector. I've done a couple of L1 up dates and the worst part is removing the skirt under the boiler. CAT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbie37 Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 Yes, I wondered about that. Any clues to technique for its removal? Is it just long and slow work with a sharp blade? Thanks for the tip on the not-Westinghouse pump. I'll ring SEF Monday for a copy of their parts list... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Yes, I wondered about that. Any clues to technique for its removal? Is it just long and slow work with a sharp blade? Thanks for the tip on the not-Westinghouse pump. I'll ring SEF Monday for a copy of their parts list... You can actually buy saw blades which are designed to fit scalpel handles. Drilling a series of holes also works. You can use small circular saws designed to fit mini drill mandrels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobach47 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Yes, I wondered about that. Any clues to technique for its removal? Is it just long and slow work with a sharp blade? Thanks for the tip on the not-Westinghouse pump. I'll ring SEF Monday for a copy of their parts list... i got a steam reverser and tender parts from dave at south eastern finecast Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbie37 Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 Ok, good to know... I've been thinking about the chassis this afternoon. I have seen other examples where people have use the new Hornby T9 chassis, so I bought one really cheaply on Ebay, but the Mazak rot had taken more effect than I had hoped. It might have a future. There is a Rod Neep T9 chassis on Ebay that I'm following as well, but I've also seen this approach... https://southernregionmodels.wordpress.com/locomotives/triang-l1/ What are peoples thoughts on this approach. I've had a better look at the L1 chassis this afternoon and hadn't realised I have brass side frames with a centre of another yet indetermined material. Sounds quite a practical approach.. Thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Ok, good to know... I've been thinking about the chassis this afternoon. I have seen other examples where people have use the new Hornby T9 chassis, so I bought one really cheaply on Ebay, but the Mazak rot had taken more effect than I had hoped. It might have a future. There is a Rod Neep T9 chassis on Ebay that I'm following as well, but I've also seen this approach... https://southernregionmodels.wordpress.com/locomotives/triang-l1/ What are peoples thoughts on this approach. I've had a better look at the L1 chassis this afternoon and hadn't realised I have brass side frames with a centre of another yet indetermined material. Sounds quite a practical approach.. Thoughts? For another project I have had thoughts on the Nelly chassis of the same era, swapping the cast blocks for Romford 00 gauge frame spacers, which are available from Markits. on the other hand you could make your own spacers from either sheet or L section brass Markits sell axles to fit their wheels the same diameter as the Triang Hornby axles, though if required the original wheels can still be used Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbie37 Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 So, given the pointers above, I've been doing more research. Phew, one thing I have found out is the number of people doing seemingly high quality components nowadays. SO my shopping list has got to this point so far... Replacement chassis (including Motor and gearbox) Brake shoes – Mainly Trains MT182: SR Loco Brake Shoes & Hangers Bogie – Wizard Models – Comet Models LS11: LNER/SR Locomotive Bogie – 6’3″ Wheelbase Bogie wheels – 3’7“ Steam reverser – SEF (from Wainwright R1? – F192) Snifter valves - MARKITS M40B M4SNIFTSR 4MM SCALE, Clack valves = MARKITS M90 MCLACK-SR COMPLETE Handrail and knobs Steam Pipe (?) Chimney Buffers - MARKITS M71 M4BUFLOCOSR 4MM or Mainly Trains 4 LNER/SR Locomotive Buffers (4909) Whistle and Safety valves - MARKITS M62 M4SFTYV01 4MM SCALE Heating pipes etc Various pipework Cab backhead Paint and transfers Loco lamp irons – Mainly Trains - MT187: Loco Lamp Irons So this list is beginning to fill out now. The chimney is a big sticking point so if anyone has any ideas on that or observations of my choices so far, that would be helpful... Thanks for the ongoing help... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) So, given the pointers above, I've been doing more research. Phew, one thing I have found out is the number of people doing seemingly high quality components nowadays. SO my shopping list has got to this point so far... Replacement chassis (including Motor and gearbox) Brake shoes – Mainly Trains MT182: SR Loco Brake Shoes & Hangers Bogie – Wizard Models – Comet Models LS11: LNER/SR Locomotive Bogie – 6’3″ Wheelbase Bogie wheels – 3’7“ Steam reverser – SEF (from Wainwright R1? – F192) Snifter valves - MARKITS M40B M4SNIFTSR 4MM SCALE, Clack valves = MARKITS M90 MCLACK-SR COMPLETE Handrail and knobs Steam Pipe (?) Chimney Buffers - MARKITS M71 M4BUFLOCOSR 4MM or Mainly Trains 4 LNER/SR Locomotive Buffers (4909) Whistle and Safety valves - MARKITS M62 M4SFTYV01 4MM SCALE Heating pipes etc Various pipework Cab backhead Paint and transfers Loco lamp irons – Mainly Trains - MT187: Loco Lamp Irons So this list is beginning to fill out now. The chimney is a big sticking point so if anyone has any ideas on that or observations of my choices so far, that would be helpful... Thanks for the ongoing help... Send a large stamped self addressed envelope to Dave at Southeastern Finecast asking for a Q parts list as some of the parts may be the same Edited October 8, 2018 by hayfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbie37 Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 I've been doing some reading this morning and according to A Pictorial Record of Southern Locomotives by JH Russell, the L1 shared the same chimney as the N Mogul, so another item tracked down as 247 Developments provide such an item. My list has been updated accordingly.. Thanks for the suggestion on the Q parts list, Hayfield. At the risk of appearing dense, which parts are you suggesting are common between the Q and the L1? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Ok, good to know... I've been thinking about the chassis this afternoon. I have seen other examples where people have use the new Hornby T9 chassis, so I bought one really cheaply on Ebay, but the Mazak rot had taken more effect than I had hoped. It might have a future. There is a Rod Neep T9 chassis on Ebay that I'm following as well, but I've also seen this approach... https://southernregionmodels.wordpress.com/locomotives/triang-l1/ What are peoples thoughts on this approach. I've had a better look at the L1 chassis this afternoon and hadn't realised I have brass side frames with a centre of another yet indetermined material. Sounds quite a practical approach.. Thoughts? The Mazak rot on T9's is a common problem. Peters Spares do the relevant replacement parts, being a brass cover/ base for the motor and worm, and also the Hornby part for the support plate at the rear of the motor. The brass cover is a casting that needs careful fettling, but can be fitted with complete success, even I've done one! Out of interest, how close is the Triang L1 body moulding to the original in terms of accuracy? John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I've been doing some reading this morning and according to A Pictorial Record of Southern Locomotives by JH Russell, the L1 shared the same chimney as the N Mogul, so another item tracked down as 247 Developments provide such an item. My list has been updated accordingly.. Thanks for the suggestion on the Q parts list, Hayfield. At the risk of appearing dense, which parts are you suggesting are common between the Q and the L1? I just thought as both were SR design they may have some items in common, SEF also do the N mogul so another source for the chimney Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbie37 Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 Thanks again, Hayfield. I only noticed you had edited your post after I had replied. SEF may well be a source of suitable parts if I can be accurate in my request. In answer to John's comment, I understand the L1 body to be surprisingly accurate in many ways, though the huge lump of plastic under the boiler (which I think is there to hide the motor) is one of the major flaws - apart from adding greater detail as I am planning to do. The tender as supplied is totally wrong and it's surprising the difference that replacing that with one from a Bachmann 'N' makes. The T9 I have has pretty much fallen apart. However, the major component that has failed is the main chassis block, which isn't available as a spare part. I am wondering however if I can salvage just the part that has the driving wheels in it to use under the L1 - the wheelbase is correct and the driving wheels of the T9 and the L1 are only an inch different in size. One of the main problems as I understand it, is getting the L1 down to the correct height for the running plate to line up with the correct height on the replacement tender... An idea of what can be achieved with the L1 is here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/605/entry-4345-triang-l1-body-on-a-Hornby-t9-chassis/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I have purchased one of these: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hornby-H138-Railroad-Compound-4-4-0-Loco-Drive-Chassis/332723415720?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 for use under an L1. Wheelbase is the same, and once valve gear/cylinders are removed, T9 coupling rods can be fitted to give the correct 'bellied' pattern. Bogie wheelbase is good too! Cheers from Oz, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbie37 Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 Ah, that's interesting. I had also read that a Schools chassis might fit the bill. Having had a look, occasionaly the Fowlers come up on Ebay and you can buy the complete thing for less than the price of the chassis you pointed out. As I have 2 donor locomotives, I'm warming to the idea of remaking the existing chassis with the chassis spacers as this chap did https://southernregionmodels.wordpress.com/locomotives/triang-l1/ That might be my first attempt and if I foul that up, the chassis you have helpfully pointed out might be Plan B... With that chassis, were you able to drop the height of the loco down a bit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Ah, that's interesting. I had also read that a Schools chassis might fit the bill. Having had a look, occasionaly the Fowlers come up on Ebay and you can buy the complete thing for less than the price of the chassis you pointed out. As I have 2 donor locomotives, I'm warming to the idea of remaking the existing chassis with the chassis spacers as this chap did https://southernregionmodels.wordpress.com/locomotives/triang-l1/ That might be my first attempt and if I foul that up, the chassis you have helpfully pointed out might be Plan B... With that chassis, were you able to drop the height of the loco down a bit? As I said you could try Markit spacers, and I see the chap has gone the whole hog with decent wheels, motor and gearbox. A set of decent coupling rods would set it off nicely, Alan Gibson does 40 mm ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted October 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2018 If you want a cheap tender body/frame, you could use one from a Great British Locomotives N Class, which is a static copy of the Bachmann one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbie37 Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 Thanks Corbs, good tip, though I have already snapped up a tender from a Bachmann N which suits perfectly. Welcome to the conversation Alex. If you are thinking of a project the same as me, perhaps you might be able to help with the individual components I will need for the upgrade. I am still really struggling with that. I don't have sufficient knowledge to make some of these choices.. I am hopeful that those that have greater knowledge might chime in.. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbie37 Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 Further digging through my old modelling box has revealed quite a few bits and pieces from the old days. So some 'Medium Handrail knobs' and a selection on brass wire around 0.5mmhave been added to the list of what I will use in the upgrade. Is the 0.5mm wire too small a diameter for the handrail? That equates to 1.5" so sounds about right.. I also found an RG4 gearbox still in its packet and some sprung buffers from the Cavendish range. Although they were described as LSWR, they might fit the bill... or they go on the M7 I found in the box that is half way through a Crownline upgrade.. The list grows smaller of unidentified items, but I still need some help and advice where I have chosen items or where I still have the gaps.. Replacement chassis (including Motor and gearbox) Brake shoes – Mainly Trains MT182: SR Loco Brake Shoes & Hangers Bogie – Wizard Models – Comet Models LS11: LNER/SR Locomotive Bogie – 6’3″ Wheelbase Bogie wheels – 3’7“ Markits 4MA019 Frame Spacers 9.5mm (3) Steam reverser – SEF (from Wainwright R1? – F192) Snifter valves - MARKITS M40B M4SNIFTSR 4MM SCALE, Clack valves = MARKITS M90 MCLACK-SR COMPLETE Handrail and knobs – Medium Handrail knobs and 0.5mm wire in stock Steam Pipe (?) Chimney – 247 Developments CH18 CHIMNEY MAUNSELL N,U,W Buffers - MARKITS M71 M4BUFLOCOSR 4MM or Mainly Trains 4 LNER/SR Locomotive Buffers (4909) Whistle and Safety valves - MARKITS M62 M4SFTYV01 4MM SCALE Heating pipes etc Various pipework Cab backhead Paint and transfers Loco lamp irons – Mainly Trains - MT187: Loco Lamp Irons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Further digging through my old modelling box has revealed quite a few bits and pieces from the old days. So some 'Medium Handrail knobs' and a selection on brass wire around 0.5mmhave been added to the list of what I will use in the upgrade. Is the 0.5mm wire too small a diameter for the handrail? That equates to 1.5" so sounds about right.. I also found an RG4 gearbox still in its packet and some sprung buffers from the Cavendish range. Although they were described as LSWR, they might fit the bill... or they go on the M7 I found in the box that is half way through a Crownline upgrade.. The list grows smaller of unidentified items, but I still need some help and advice where I have chosen items or where I still have the gaps.. Replacement chassis (including Motor and gearbox) Brake shoes – Mainly Trains MT182: SR Loco Brake Shoes & Hangers Bogie – Wizard Models – Comet Models LS11: LNER/SR Locomotive Bogie – 6’3″ Wheelbase Bogie wheels – 3’7“ Markits 4MA019 Frame Spacers 9.5mm (3) Steam reverser – SEF (from Wainwright R1? – F192) Snifter valves - MARKITS M40B M4SNIFTSR 4MM SCALE, Clack valves = MARKITS M90 MCLACK-SR COMPLETE Handrail and knobs – Medium Handrail knobs and 0.5mm wire in stock Steam Pipe (?) Chimney – 247 Developments CH18 CHIMNEY MAUNSELL N,U,W Buffers - MARKITS M71 M4BUFLOCOSR 4MM or Mainly Trains 4 LNER/SR Locomotive Buffers (4909) Whistle and Safety valves - MARKITS M62 M4SFTYV01 4MM SCALE Heating pipes etc Various pipework Cab backhead Paint and transfers Loco lamp irons – Mainly Trains - MT187: Loco Lamp Irons When I bought 'snifter valves from Markits they looked nothing like snifter valves and I think they were clack valves ( which you will need too ! ) so be careful here ................... I'm not sure where you'll find MT187 lamp irons as Mainly Trains are no more ( unless they've reappeared without me noticing ) - but S.E.F. do an etch of irons as well ......... best to ask Dave for the parts lists for the SECR 'E' class as well as the 'Q' as there will be a fair bit of commonality : the bogies were identical for a start. ....... now where's that Crownline kit I've still got to finish ??!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 When I bought 'snifter valves from Markits they looked nothing like snifter valves and I think they were clack valves ( which you will need too ! ) so be careful here ................... I'm not sure where you'll find MT187 lamp irons as Mainly Trains are no more ( unless they've reappeared without me noticing ) - but S.E.F. do an etch of irons as well ......... best to ask Dave for the parts lists for the SECR 'E' class as well as the 'Q' as there will be a fair bit of commonality : the bogies were identical for a start. ....... now where's that Crownline kit I've still got to finish ??!? Mainly Trains parts have been available from Wizard Models for quite some time. Well over a year. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/?filter_3_manufacturer=mainly_trains Also look at what PDK have as parts as they actually make a L1 kit and have started to sell parts separately. http://www.pdkmodels.co.uk/index.html Don't forget Brassmasters who also have plenty of parts. Including proper SR lamp irons. The Mainly Trains ones are apparently overscale. http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/index.html Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Not entirely sure why, but for some reason I want to follow this! I think I may be lapsing into pre-grouping/grouping-but-pre-1930 rather than pure pre-grouping now! What with the Lord Nelson having been purchased... I did have a triang L1... but I believe that I now only have the chassis. I look forward to more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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